Maximum sentences don’t mean much, minimum sentences are what is required.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]Altough I enjoy your posts DD, I will use my greater powers of debating and tell you you are wrong far too often these days, tsk tsk.
Just check the research, one beer cuts down driving ability (what little there was to start with). It stops the usual excuse, ’ I didn’t know I drank that much’. Just don’t mix alcohol with heavy machinery.
The other issues you mention also had laws against them.[/quote]
I don’t give a rats ass if you think what I post is right or wrong, and frankly since we are in the pot talking to kettle mode, you wouldn’t exactly be the standing example of truth, reality and justice around these parts either, tsk tsk.
The fact is zero tolerance doesn’t work. We’ve seen 30 plus years of MADD, TADD and various other well funded anti-drunk driving campaigns and yet very few places have gone to zero tolerance. Why not? With so many people like yourself, so aware of zero tolerance being ‘better’, why has there not been this groundswell of support and change?
Because it is impractical, and the same kind of reactionary bullshit and flawed logic that simpletons use to solve problems that have more to them than what is on the surface.
Alcohol is a part of society, it is sold everywhere and there are rules regarding its consumption and driving in place. Enforcement of the rules WILL solve the problem, making stiffer rules and having lax enforcement will do nothing.
Taiwanese attitudes towards defensive driving and drunk driving are the problem here, not the difference between a two beer buzz and being stone cold sober. Its a shame you don’t see that, and it is more of a shame that you cannot see the bigger picture and opt for more draconian measures, but according you, you seem to be in possession of these ‘great powers of debate’ so maybe you are just bored and fancy a bit of a challenge by taking on such a flawed argument.
There are reasons zero tolerance isn’t the accepted norm in most places. Why do you treat Taiwan differently?
They need to just change the entire culture of driving here. They also need to clean out the entire police force and start again. Maybe they should import police from Thailand and the Philippines like they do with factory workers. They’d be cheaper and they couldn’t do a worse job. Recently, my wife’s friend (on a scooter) was rear-ended by a guy (in a car). As far as I know, no alcohol was involved. The man tried to drive away, but because she was a local (probably the important part as anyone else would have been left for dead), others stopped him. When her father tried to report all of this at the local police station, the policeman refused to make the report. Why? Because the policeman’s cousin was the one who hit my wife’s friend. Her father then had to contact a friend at another police station to get involved. The policeman who refused to make the report has also apparently threatened the witnesses. She was going to settle out of court for a relatively small amount (she has sustained some pretty bad injuries), because her family don’t want to cause trouble. 
My wife is trying to convince her to go for the jugular, including with the policeman (though that’s hard to prove).
Despite at least three different incidents last year involving at least six different students (most in the ninth grade) riding scooters, including one where one kid ended up in hospital for more than a week (that one also involved alcohol), the police and most of my colleagues continue to turn a blind eye to our students riding scooters (including without helmets). Many of my colleagues ride scooters without helmets. One of my administrative colleagues rides a scooter whilst obviously under the influence of alcohol (you can smell it on him a mile off).
Highway number 9 goes through the town where I work. One of the schools I work at fronts the highway. People tear arse through the town. Last year, a girl in the third grade was hit by a car and broke her arm. Likewise, people around here regularly overtake on the crests of hills, around blind corners, across solid lines, and in changed road or weather conditions. The other day, we nearly had a head on with an ambulance (without its siren on) that was driving on the wrong side of the road, coming up a hill, around a blind corner. All it needed was rain and construction works for the jackpot.
We have police checks occasionally, but half the time, the police just wave everyone through. What’s the point of that? I also love the mandatory guy with the AK-47. What’s he going to do, open fire if you don’t slow down? Have they even thought about the implications of him shooting wildly at a speeding car and missing (i.e. killing people sitting in their front rooms watching TV on the other side of the street)?
Basically, laws or no laws, zero tolerance and the rest of it, it’s all a complete nonsense. Maybe in Taipei things are better, but out here in the provinces, it’s a complete free for all. They don’t need new laws. They need to enforce the ones they already have and get the police off their arses.
Hey DD, calm down I’m only joshing with ya.
This is a good question. The reason why I treat Taiwan differently is that I have perceived after a decade of living here that in Taiwan shades of grey don’t work very well for some issues.
Nobody these days would think of lighting a fire in a national park area. You will be fined 100,000s NTDs if they catch you. And they do fine people.
But just outside the national park it is a free for all.
Taipei City, enforced towing, fines for double parking, scooters removed from pavements etc.
New Taipei City and other areas, you get the picture…
Burning paper on the street, not supposed to do it, but everybody does it. If they just allowed burning paper at the temples, with no exception, this will settle the issue.
I think the police have difficult (ahem) with enforcing the law when a degree of discretion exists. Remove the discretion, make the rule crystal clear with no exceptions, and there is nothing they can do. There will be no arguments from the disgruntled citizens plaintively squealing ‘why me, why me’. Instead it will be ‘fair cop governor!’.
personally I think anyone who drives a scooter while intoxicated is a fool - I’ve had a lot of acquaintances die that way.
On the other hand, I’ve been cycling while intoxicateed for over 30 years, no harm yet, and I dont know anyone who got killed from drunk on a bike,
though i do know a couple of cyclists who got run over while sober.
But another point that people arent taking into account in this debate is that DUI laws are mostly an excuse to increase the power of the police state.
As originally formulated in the UK, the DUI laws were meant to be for cops to stop and breathalyse anyone they reasonably suspect to be DUI - but it has since become a blanket excuse to stop EVERYONE in a car and rummage about in their private affairs.
The arrest rate for DUI per stoppage is almost 0%.
Cars anyway are very dangerous things (drunk or not), but theyre not going to be restricted in usage in any capitalist society.
Personally I’d like to see them banned…
[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“cfimages”]China Post editorial today called for a zero tolerance approach.
chinapost.com.tw/editorial/t … -short.htm[/quote]
This is crap. Zero tolerance is unrealistic.[/quote]
Yup. I’ve long been aware of the untenability of zero tolerance and have opposed the concept since I first heard of it. By its very nature it will inevitably punish innocent people.
Hey DD, calm down I’m only joshing with ya.
This is a good question. The reason why I treat Taiwan differently is that I have perceived after a decade of living here that in Taiwan shades of grey don’t work very well for some issues.
Nobody these days would think of lighting a fire in a national park area. You will be fined 100,000s NTDs if they catch you. And they do fine people.
But just outside the national park it is a free for all.
Taipei City, enforced towing, fines for double parking, scooters removed from pavements etc.
New Taipei City and other areas, you get the picture…
Burning paper on the street, not supposed to do it, but everybody does it. If they just allowed burning paper at the temples, with no exception, this will settle the issue.
I think the police have difficult (ahem) with enforcing the law when a degree of discretion exists. Remove the discretion, make the rule crystal clear with no exceptions, and there is nothing they can do. There will be no arguments from the disgruntled citizens plaintively squealing ‘why me, why me’. Instead it will be ‘fair cop governor!’.[/quote]
I have driven a car in Taipei for over a decade. I don’t drink and drive a car in Taiwan or anywhere because I think the risks are too great.
But, since the increase in sobriety checkpoints started a few years back I have seen a dramatic decrease in the number of people who choose to drink and drive. Enforcement works, and that should be the focus.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
We have police checks occasionally, but half the time, the police just wave everyone through. What’s the point of that? I also love the mandatory guy with the AK-47. What’s he going to do, open fire if you don’t slow down? Have they even thought about the implications of him shooting wildly at a speeding car and missing (i.e. killing people sitting in their front rooms watching TV on the other side of the street)?[/quote]
AK-47? Have the Reds infiltrated the police? 
I’ve seen them with MP5s and the usual T91, but never an AK.
And I believe they are more for show than anything else.
Police roadblocks have improved quite a bit over the years, at least in my neck of the woods. Though there is obviously much room for improvement.
In Belgium when they catch you riding a horse drunk, you’ll lose your driving license … 
true!
[quote=“Pingdong”]Someday they should also consider rethinking their driving tests and courses. As annoying as they are, road blocks serve a purpose here, unfortunately the types that are regular drinks/drivers tend not to be intelligent enough to get the picture.
At least the gov chases in, if nothing else. I don’t even mind road blocks anymore as there are just so many drunk/high drivers that i hate to say they are useful. there is an accident on our road, out in the country, pretty much every single night. and the few I have been the first person out to take care of the fuckers, they have all been ethanol related.[/quote]
They are either too rich or too stupid!
[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
We have police checks occasionally, but half the time, the police just wave everyone through. What’s the point of that? I also love the mandatory guy with the AK-47. What’s he going to do, open fire if you don’t slow down? Have they even thought about the implications of him shooting wildly at a speeding car and missing (i.e. killing people sitting in their front rooms watching TV on the other side of the street)?[/quote]
AK-47? Have the Reds infiltrated the police?
I’ve seen them with MP5s and the usual T91, but never an AK.
And I believe they are more for show than anything else.
Police roadblocks have improved quite a bit over the years, at least in my neck of the woods. Though there is obviously much room for improvement.[/quote]
I don’t know. It’s the only machine gun or assault rifle or whatever those things are called that I could think of, other than the Uzi!
[quote=“headhonchoII”]Altough I enjoy your posts DD, I will use my greater powers of debating and tell you you are wrong far too often these days, tsk tsk.
Just check the research, one beer cuts down driving ability (what little there was to start with). It stops the usual excuse, ’ I didn’t know I drank that much’. Just don’t mix alcohol with heavy machinery.
The other issues you mention also had laws against them.[/quote]
So do prescription drugs, binlang and Taiwan Whisbi … too much sex … in the car
[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“cfimages”]China Post editorial today called for a zero tolerance approach.
0.08 is a reasonable limit. I am not sure what it is in Taiwan, but I am guessing it is similar and reasonable.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
What I have seen in Taiwan is that the women are on their ass with 1 beer. The men maybe 3. I’m sure the BA is below .08 but unless they are frequent drinkers, Taiwanese simply have no tolerance and I had a lawyer friend tell me that the limit here is .08 (if enforced but seldom is).
[quote=“2Enigma”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“cfimages”]China Post editorial today called for a zero tolerance approach.
0.08 is a reasonable limit. I am not sure what it is in Taiwan, but I am guessing it is similar and reasonable.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
What I have seen in Taiwan is that the women are on their ass with 1 beer. The men maybe 3. I’m sure the BA is below .08 but unless they are frequent drinkers, Taiwanese simply have no tolerance and I had a lawyer friend tell me that the limit here is .08 (if enforced but seldom is).[/quote]
It’s genetic … Chinese mis an enzyme gene that actually helps the liver process alcohol … or something …
That gene is for an enzyme for processing the downstream product of alcohol, it doesn’t affect tolerance levels.
… Then it’s probably the eyes, skin color or nose size … hair color?
In Belgium when they catch you riding a horse drunk, you’ll lose your driving license … true![/quote]
haha thas funny. In the USA that wouldnt fly ,I think you can challenge that in court. Unless the horse was drunk as well .
My problem with “getting tougher” on drunk driving is that it’s already very tough. There’s a point where toughening it further no longer reduces the incidence of drunk driving, but it does start to net people who perhaps had one beer a few hours before but are now perfectly able to drive.
Definitely. They may have even “slept it off” for more than eight hours but still have some blood alcohol and not realise it.
She needs to spend a few years in jail. Hopefully she will come out of it with a new resolve not to drink and drive.
She has to drink as part of her job (one wishes she gets a better job too ) but she can take a cab.
New harsh penalties don’t seem to be working,
another case