US Presidential Election 2004 IV

Politics International Politics
41

How do you know that wasn’t the reason? I think it was a big part, if not the only part, of the reason.

They were never going to find anything… and we would never have known for certain the actual status of Saddam’s WMD stores or programs. Thus, eventually the sanctions would have been dropped and the UN would have declared Saddam in compliance with the UN resolutions and cease fire… then, Saddam would have re-started his programs. I don’t see how that is a good result.

Why was it a mistake?

The same companies made money when Clinton went into Bosnia without UN approval. Why is this only a problem now when Bush does it?[/quote]

The opinions you have that the war was not premature differ from mine and from the majority of Americans. Bush can keep his job if he can convince Americans that your rationale is right enough.

Some people are calling this “Cheney’s War”, because he put the nation in drive for war.
msnbc.com - Cheney’s Long Path to War

[quote]Of all the president

42

Its obvious that you and I hold different opinions re the validity of this war. But, you say it was a mistake to shift from UN oversight to a war without many allies. I asked you why you think so. BTW, we have over 30 allies. How many would be sufficient? Can you respond?

43

The US currently has 90% of the international force in Iraq. It may because the US chose to go in and then said, “Who’s with us?” At least there could be more allies in Iraq.

44

Who? Which allies had/have troops to spare (other than what troops were provided)?

In the first Guld War, the world was united in agreement to oust Saddam from Kuwait. The UN backed and sanctioned the effort. The Arab states backed and sanctioned the effort. The Russians and the Chinese backed and sanctioned the effort. (John Kerry did not back or sanction that effort :unamused: ).

The US contributed 76% of all coalition troops to the first Gulf War and 82% of the coalition troops killed in the first Gulf War were US troops.

I don’t see that waiting for France (which suffered 2 deaths during the first Gulf War) would have made much of a difference.

45

Tigerman:

How dare you discount the wonderfully soothing and inspirational the French with their accordions have had on world wars and their efforts! Please! Remember the French contribution with respect! RESPECT man! Respect! hahaha

46

Why haven’t we heard about this? The Crawford Shopper has a circulation of about 400-500 two-page sheets, yet got national coverage (and lost half its circulation) by endorsing Kerry. Yet the Lowell Sun, a “legitimate media outlet” in a mid-sized town in Massachusetts, with a circulation of about forty thousand households every day, or perhaps a hundred thousand people daily, endorsed Bush over a week ago, and I hadn’t heard a word until someone mentioned it to me today.

lowellsun.com/Stories/0,1413 … rch=filter

[quote]Americans aren’t fools. They know that without safe cities and towns, America will lose its greatness. Our cherished freedoms and sacred liberties will be diminished, along with our opportunities for economic prosperity and our basic pursuit of happiness.

Islamic extremists, both here and abroad, have one purpose: To destroy America and halt the spread of democracy and religious tolerance around the globe.

We in Massachusetts know John Kerry. He got his first taste of politics 32 years ago in the cities and towns of Greater Lowell.

In his 20 years in the U.S. Senate, Kerry, a Navy war hero, hasn’t risen above the rank of seaman for his uninspiring legislative record. He’s been inconsistent on major issues. … Kerry’s solution to stop terrorism? He’d go to the U.N. and build a consensus. How naive. France’s Jacques Chirac, Germany’s Gerhard Schroeder, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan and other Iraq oil-for-food scam artists don’t want America to succeed. They want us brought down to their level. And more and more, Kerry sounds just like them. In a recent campaign speech, Kerry said America was in the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

No doubt John Kerry sincerely wants to serve his country, but we believe he’s the wrong man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

The Sun proudly endorses the re-election of President George W. Bush.
[/quote]
I am floored. Here is a real newspaper – not a free “shopper’s special” containing half a dozen for-sale-by-owner ads, but a newspaper with reporters and a paid circulation – in Kerry’s home base, which has endorsed Bush. Where is Dan Rather? (Oh yeah, never mind.) Where is Ted Koppel? Where are the packs of barking reporters from all across the nation?

Sound of crickets. Oops.

47

Kerry’s hometown is quite large. There’s a University of Massechusetts in his hometown. I believe that it’s not the only paper around. Are there any papers from Kerry’s hometown that do support him? Of course.

But Bush’s hometown is quite small. That’s actually the local paper for Bush, even though it only started a couple years ago. And the people of Bush’s hometown were surprised to see it supporting someone else.

After a little more research I drudged up this:

That’s not the most innocent of newspapers. And it’s been on the warpath against Kerry for a long time.

[quote]The Lowell Sun, which vigorously opposed John Kerry when he moved to Lowell to make his first run for office in 1972, has endorsed George W. Bush for president, citing Bush’s “steely commitment to keep America safe.”…
“What might a lesser leader have done, faced with the daunting task of deciding America’s course against withering, partisan attacks from Democrats, media propagandists, disingenuous U.N. officials and disloyal White House operatives selling their souls for profit during a time of war?”
[/quote]

It is clear to me that the Sun is an example of media propaganda.

48

I can’t tell if you wrote that tongue-in-cheek or if you’re really that fucked in the head. I know if mofogangrene wrote it, he’d be serious. :loco:

49

Are there any forumosans from Massachusetts? Or the New England states?
Kerry must enjoy a certain level of popularity there as he has been relected as Senator quite a few times.

50

Actually Tigerman already posted this. Then I posted the one where Bush’s home town newspaper endorsed Kerry. And then someone, I forgot who, posted about the hippies invading Bush’s home town.

51

You’re the one who should be calling a shrink, not me. You asked lots of questions in your post, and you can’t believe you got a response? Isn’t that a troll? Tell me the truth - you didn’t really want to know why nobody thinks this is more important than Bush owning a $300 lumber company.

Forum rules: Deliberately posting false information or insincere questions in order to elicit responses from people who really want to help.

To which I responded: The newspaper in question has a poor reputation. It is not the only paper in town.

52

[quote=“MaPoSquid”]Why haven’t we heard about this? The Crawford Shopper has a circulation of about 400-500 two-page sheets, yet got national coverage (and lost half its circulation) by endorsing Kerry. Yet the Lowell Sun, a “legitimate media outlet” in a mid-sized town in Massachusetts, with a circulation of about forty thousand households every day, or perhaps a hundred thousand people daily, endorsed Bush over a week ago, and I hadn’t heard a word until someone mentioned it to me today.

lowellsun.com/Stories/0,1413 … rch=filter

[quote]Americans aren’t fools. They know that without safe cities and towns, America will lose its greatness. Our cherished freedoms and sacred liberties will be diminished, along with our opportunities for economic prosperity and our basic pursuit of happiness.

Islamic extremists, both here and abroad, have one purpose: To destroy America and halt the spread of democracy and religious tolerance around the globe.

We in Massachusetts know John Kerry. He got his first taste of politics 32 years ago in the cities and towns of Greater Lowell.

In his 20 years in the U.S. Senate, Kerry, a Navy war hero, hasn’t risen above the rank of seaman for his uninspiring legislative record. He’s been inconsistent on major issues. … Kerry’s solution to stop terrorism? He’d go to the U.N. and build a consensus. How naive. France’s Jacques Chirac, Germany’s Gerhard Schroeder, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan and other Iraq oil-for-food scam artists don’t want America to succeed. They want us brought down to their level. And more and more, Kerry sounds just like them. In a recent campaign speech, Kerry said America was in the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

No doubt John Kerry sincerely wants to serve his country, but we believe he’s the wrong man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

The Sun proudly endorses the re-election of President George W. Bush.
[/quote]
I am floored. Here is a real newspaper – not a free “shopper’s special” containing half a dozen for-sale-by-owner ads, but a newspaper with reporters and a paid circulation – in Kerry’s home base, which has endorsed Bush. Where is Dan Rather? (Oh yeah, never mind.) Where is Ted Koppel? Where are the packs of barking reporters from all across the nation?

Sound of crickets. Oops.[/quote]

ho hum…

53

Kerry is not popular with anyone, not even Democrats on Capitol Hill. I wound’t use the word “popular” to describe Kerry. I have yet to find ANYONE that can get excited about Kerry without going into Bush bashing in the first second and a half. Kerry is just an empty vessel for Bush hate. Kerry has no core. No conviction. No plans … really … and if he does, they keep changing. No personality. No gravitas. No charm. The guy is duller than dull and comes off as an aloof elitist that marries rich women. It’s not about popularity for Kerry.

As for why senators get reelected, it is more about momentum behind senority in bringing home the bacon to the State. It isn’t really so much about popularity after you’re elected.

54

pinesay wrote [quote]Kerry is not popular with anyone, not even Democrats on Capitol Hill. I wound’t use the word “popular” to describe Kerry.[/quote]

Damn, is this the criteria we are now expected to accept whether someone is a good public servant-- how popular they are? Sorry but history is replete with examples of “unpopular” folks who were nonetheless able to accomplish great deeds. Still, how about posting some actual quotes from Democrats who feel Bush would make a better world leader than Kerry? In the words of fred smith, “I’ll wait for your answer.”

pinesay wrote [quote]I have yet to find ANYONE that can get excited about Kerry without going into Bush bashing in the first second and a half. Kerry is just an empty vessel for Bush hate. Kerry has no core. No conviction. No plans … really … and if he does, they keep changing. No personality. No gravitas. No charm. The guy is duller than dull and comes off as an aloof elitist that marries rich women. It’s not about popularity for Kerry.[/quote]

Again, you come back to the idea that Kerry is not a popular person. Again, you offer no proof. Kerry is not popular among Republicans? Really? Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Now how about some proof that Democrats feel Bush would be a better leader for America?

pinesay wrote [quote]As for why senators get reelected, it is more about momentum behind senority in bringing home the bacon to the State. It isn’t really so much about popularity after you’re elected.[/quote][/quote]

So why do you make such an issue of saying tha Kerry is not a popular person? If popularity is not important, why keep pointing out that Kerry, in your opinion, is not a popular guy in Washington? Pinesay, do you actually read your own posts before you make them or do you simply post whatever simple thought comes into your head? Actually, please don’t bother to answer since I already know the answer.

55

“The fact is that we wouldn’t be in Iraq if it weren’t for Democrats like Senator Kerry.” - Howard Dean

“Someone earlier made a remark about losing 500 soldiers and 2,200 wounded in Iraq. Those soldiers were sent there by the vote of Sen. Lieberman, Sen. Edwards and Sen. Kerry. I think that is a serious matter.” - Howard Dean

56

Interesting election news from Pennsylvania: apparently Bush has nearly stopped spending there and, more importantly, has no further campaign appearances planned.

Is Bush abandoning PA?

This is great news for Kerry if true, and a real shocker. :astonished:

57

nysun.com/article/3107

you know, if he would sign the form to release all his documents, all this speculation would go away. :wink:

58

[quote=“Flipper”]http://www.nysun.com/article/3107

you know, if he would sign the form to release all his documents, all this speculation would go away. :wink:[/quote]

It [b]is[/b] curious, isn’t it? :laughing:

59

Thank Goodness GW Bush never went to Vietnam during the war. Thus no one would need to question his service record in Vietnam and whether it was honorable or not.

60

The televised debated are doing GW Bush in like Nixion.

Being photogenic as Ollie North will not hide the fact he’s as cluless as Dan Quayle.

Doesn’t help Kerry is no Dukakis either.

If Kerry does well in the final debate, it will be the nail in the coffin.

As long as there are no fake assassination or fake Osama for the next month, we will have a liberal President in office.