USA and gun control


#181

[quote=“Petrichor”][quote=“ChewDawg”]

BTW, I think your “where the government lets people kill each other” statement on guns is pretty stupid. I think saying the US has a gun culture (it does more than Canada I guess) is pretty stupid because in that case what about Guatemala, Honduras, Estonia? They have a lot higher gun violence and yet are never singled out like the US. The US gun homicide rate is very similar to Switzerland and Finland’s–countries that are often highlighted as being safe with huge safety nets.

[/quote]

Are you sure? According to the UN stats for 2000, the per 100,000 gun homicide rate for the US was 2.97, while in Switzerland it was 0.56 and Finland’s was 0.43.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence[/quote]

This one is a little more updated:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate


#182

[quote=“ChewDawg”]

This one is a little more updated:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate[/quote]

It also includes “suicide by firearm” numbers, which is what’s leading to the perceived discrepancy.


#183

[quote=“ChewDawg”][quote=“Petrichor”][quote=“ChewDawg”]

BTW, I think your “where the government lets people kill each other” statement on guns is pretty stupid. I think saying the US has a gun culture (it does more than Canada I guess) is pretty stupid because in that case what about Guatemala, Honduras, Estonia? They have a lot higher gun violence and yet are never singled out like the US. The US gun homicide rate is very similar to Switzerland and Finland’s–countries that are often highlighted as being safe with huge safety nets.

[/quote]

Are you sure? According to the UN stats for 2000, the per 100,000 gun homicide rate for the US was 2.97, while in Switzerland it was 0.56 and Finland’s was 0.43.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence[/quote]

This one is a little more updated:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate[/quote]

That table shows a greater discrepancy between the countries. The USA gun homicide rate is 4.14, Switzerland’s is 0.58 and Finland’s is 0.86. I think you’re looking at the total deaths, rather than homicides.


#184

He was executed at the scene of the crime.[/quote]

He killed himself.


#185

You must realize that you’re the only person who believes this…that is you and a bunch of Bible-waving Creationists. I guess you don’t mind the company.

You do know what a homicide is? So I don’t have to tell you you’re wrong? Or is it that I’ve tapped in to another problem with your understanding of ‘things’…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate
Country/ Total Firearms Deaths/ Homicides
United States / 10.2 / 4.4
Finland / 6.9 / 0.9
Switzerland / 6.4/ 0.9


#186

You must realize that you’re the only person who believes this…that is you and a bunch of Bible-waving Creationists. I guess you don’t mind the company.

You do know what a homicide is? So I don’t have to tell you you’re wrong? Or is it that I’ve tapped in to another problem with your understanding of ‘things’…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate
Country/ Total Firearms Deaths/ Homicides
United States / 10.2 / 4.4
Finland / 6.9 / 0.9
Switzerland / 6.4/ 0.9[/quote]

Those deaths are still taken into account when determining the firearm-related death rate though right? And they are also countries with a long-standing gun-culture in their history. Wonder why the PC police doesn’t go after them.

Religious bigotry against bible-waving creationists? Again, if you looked at actual US gun related violence stats, you would see the higher rates are in urban states. Bible waving creationists living in Utah–aren’t impacted by gun violence! :smiley: It’s one of the safest states in the Union for gun violence. Same with Wyoming.


#187

Chew, you’re wrong. Just admit it with an oh, and move on.


#188

Kind of like saying “Ideological bigotry against Flat Earthers and geocentrics?”

Sorry, but the willfully stupid deserve contempt.


#189

I’m not though. When they determine that rate, they and rightly so, include suicide deaths with guns. In any case .9 and 4.4 aren’t that wide apart are they? Not when compared with Guatemala or Estonia or Honduras.

And what about the gun violence death rates for individual US states? Some of the most religious states or deep red states (e.g., Utah and Wyoming) have the lowest gun violence while ultra liberal urban states such as California have very high rates.

I don’t think, in the global context, gun violence is a problem in the US. We should be lecturing the Saffies on here (where gun violence is endemic) about their culture of violence which is why I am surprised people feel a need to lecture Americans. :loco:


#190

Stop digging. You wrote:

No it isn’t. End of story. You may have other points to make but you were absolutely wrong here.


#191

You must realize that you’re the only person who believes this…that is you and a bunch of Bible-waving Creationists. I guess you don’t mind the company.

You do know what a homicide is? So I don’t have to tell you you’re wrong? Or is it that I’ve tapped in to another problem with your understanding of ‘things’…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate
Country/ Total Firearms Deaths/ Homicides
United States / 10.2 / 4.4
Finland / 6.9 / 0.9
Switzerland / 6.4/ 0.9[/quote]

Those deaths are still taken into account when determining the firearm-related death rate though right? And they are also countries with a long-standing gun-culture in their history. Wonder why the PC police doesn’t go after them.

Religious bigotry against bible-waving creationists? Again, if you looked at actual US gun related violence stats, you would see the higher rates are in urban states. Bible waving creationists living in Utah–aren’t impacted by gun violence! :smiley: It’s one of the safest states in the Union for gun violence. Same with Wyoming.[/quote]

Let’s talk about how to read statistics.

A gun-related suicide is not what causes public fear of guns, although in fact, the USA does have the highest rate of gun-related suicides listed on my link.

Gun -related accidental or unintentional deaths are a serious issue because despite the high level of training that I have been lead to believe Swiss gun owners have, the rate there is only half of what it is in the USA, where any biker gang full patch member can get a gun dealer’s licence. This points to why the mere presence of large numbers of guns in a nation is a public security threat no matter how much training the gun owners have.

The major cause of fear of guns is homicides committed with guns. The rate in the USA is 5 times higher than in the nations you cited, and comparable only with Third World nations.

I am not surprised you are pretending you don’t understand my point. You are the educated person who defended Sarah Palin as a choice for John McCain’s VP candidate. You support political opinions shared by Creationists and conspiracy theorists. I am sure you know how foolish this all looks.

I believe there is a convincing argument against gun control. This caricature you throw up on the Net is not it. And the fact that you would use this points to serious moral issues.


#192

Time for the Chewbacca defense.


#193

Northern Ireland is third world? Estonia? Both are higher than the US and we are talking about EU Countries here with first world levels of GDP per capita!!! Hardly third world. Lots of middle income countries in the top of the list.


#194

Northern Ireland is third world? Estonia? Both are higher than the US and we are talking about EU Countries here with first world levels of GDP per capita!!! Hardly third world. Lots of middle income countries in the top of the list.[/quote]

I’m a little surprised you don’t know this. I had assumed you were reasonably well-educated. Northern Ireland is a colony of England. It has the same status in Great Britain as Puerto Rico has in the USA. Even up into the 1990s, there was double digit inflation.

There has been a great deal of concern about this and for many years. Armed armed resistance was at war with the government of Britain. You do know this? Right?

Besides, answer my main point. Gun safety appears to be the major gun-related public issue in Switzerland and the rate of gun-related homicide in the UISA is huge compared with almost every other modern nation.

shaan.typepad.com/shaanou/2005/1 … top.html

Use Google. I’m bored with this.


#195

Northern Ireland is third world? Estonia? Both are higher than the US and we are talking about EU Countries here with first world levels of GDP per capita!!! Hardly third world. Lots of middle income countries in the top of the list.[/quote]

I’m a little surprised you don’t know this. I had assumed you were reasonably well-educated. Northern Ireland is a colony of England. It has the same status in Great Britain as Puerto Rico has in the USA. Even up into the 1990s, there was double digit inflation.

There has been a great deal of concern about this and for many years. Aan armed resistance was at war with the government of Britain. You do know this? Right?[/quote]

Northern Ireland has a greater GDP per capita than both North East England and Wales. Furthermore, Estonia’s economy is now compared directly to Scandinavian countries in terms of competitiveness/lowest debt ratios in EU rather than its much poorer Baltic cousins. These aren’t modern countries? That’s pretty arrogant. Brazil is not a rapidly emerging country whose economic growth is the envy of North America and Europe? Your old-fashioned viewpoints could do with some modernization!!! :smiley:

BTW, 1998, when the Northern Ireland stat is from, is post-troubles (defined as 60s through the mid 90s). Just thought I’d add that. :laughing:

Do I expect you to know this? Hell no! :laughing: :wink:


#196

Northern Ireland is a small state consisting of 6 counties, due to it’s unique and violent history I would not use it as an example for reference. There is nowhere like it in the EU. The biggest contributor to GDP in Northern Ireland is the Public sector. The presence of armed police and the British army may also skew the statistics there. Chewy is correct that the troubles pretty much ended in the 90s but its violent culture lives on - dailymail.co.uk/news/article … lture.html

Chewy, man up and admit your mistake!


#197

Don’t let the guy avoid the point. He is summarizing the statistics incorrectly. The USA has one of the highest rates of gun-related homicide in the world for a country not at war or completely broken down. So what happened to the story about Switzerland and Finland? A man would admit he was wrong. Only a peon would continue arguing in a case like this…or try and change the subject.


#198

And again.

edition.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justi … topstories

And another slightly deranged looking suspect (shot dead on the spot):

I wonder if he was known to have serious mental problems and legally acquired a stockpile of weapons and ammo?


#199

Yes, another “likely candidate.”

[quote]A Texas man facing eviction opened fire on police officers and bystanders near the Texas A&M University campus Monday afternoon, killing two and wounding four before being shot to death by police, authorities said.

The dead included Brian Bachmann, a Brazos County constable serving an eviction notice. . .

Caffall’s mother, Linda Weaver, reached by The Huffington Post, said her son was having “difficulties” with his mental health in recent years.

“The minute I saw the TV I knew it was him,” said Weaver. “I’ve been that worried about him.”

. . . A Facebook page belonging to Caffall features several photos of assault rifles, including a Czech-made version of the AK-47. On the page, Caffall identified himself as divorced, with “Christian” religious beliefs. He lists a series of snipers, including Carlos Hathcock and Vasily Zaytsev, as “inspirational people.”

“I am pulling a cross between Forrest Gump and Jack Kerouac (without the drugs),” Caffall wrote on the site. “I’m on the road, permanently.”

Caffall commented on Facebook about several recent gun purchases, including a vintage Russian rifle. “I just got a new toy,” he wrote in May 2011. “I’ll be at the gun range as much as I can.”

Weaver, his mother, said she had been estranged from her son over the past several months. She said he had not visited her after she became seriously ill.

“We are just devastated,” Weaver said. “He’s been very deeply troubled.”

. . . Caffall’s stepfather, Richard Weaver, said Caffall was a “ticking time bomb” who quit his job nine months ago and vowed never to work again.

“He was crazy as hell,” Weaver said. “At one point, we were afraid that he was going to come up here and do something to his mother and me.”[/quote]
huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/1 … 74282.html

By now, isn’t it obvious – even to the most hard-core gun lovers – that measures should be taken to limit legal acquisition of guns and ammo by people like this? How much more must we endure?


#200

If only those police officers had been allowed to carry weapons, this could have been prevented.