USA and gun control


#241

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“navillus”]
What I really want to know, is that given the Yanks shout blue bloody murder about their right to bear arms, why do they make such piss poor soldiers?
[/quote][/quote]

I wasn’t aware that the Yanks made piss poor soldiers. Could you elaborate?


#242

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“navillus”]
What I really want to know, is that given the Yanks shout blue bloody murder about their right to bear arms, why do they make such piss poor soldiers?
[/quote][/quote]

I wasn’t aware that the Yanks made piss poor soldiers. Could you elaborate?[/quote]
Of course this is all off-topic and most certainly subjective, but sure, why not?
Perhaps my use of term was not so appropriate, but I have heard far worse from those with much more experience as I. I did hope that my qualifying statements in my earlier post might take some salt out of that wound.

I should add that I hold no dire judgement on the average American soldier, past or present. I do, however, hold much vehemence against the American Officer Class. This sentiment is no doubt judged by a reading of history, which goes without saying entails a study of primary sources from all parties involved. Yet stories only carry so much weight, unless validated by personal experience of one and one’s own.
But then what else can one say about a military that has long had far a greasy pole with far too many grades of Sergeant, and Generals.
Any disparaging comment about the U.S. military back in the day would involve a full bar brawl in any venue from Heidelberg to Honolulu. Most that I witnessesd in 8.5 years were caused by the overzealous with a definite Napoleon complex.

I suppose I could bleat on about the standard Col. Blimp stuff about always showing up to late, but that would be a limey or frog cop-out. I also suppose I could go into gory personal details from my family history, but that might stlll be a security risk.
Let’s just say that both at NATO HQ and in several operative theatre, I saw what many consider to be shameful officership on the part of certain Yanks. Even on exercise, there was much sloth and overexposure, and many a NATO unit felt grief and woe upon learning that they were on a line with some Yanks. I should say that if the U.S. Marines were allowed, we would have felt that much better.
Too bad logistics always screw them over rules of engagement.
Wow.
There it is.
A soldier’s dictum.

And that, to my mind, is what makes a soldier. Being able to follow through if one’s firepower or logistics are diminished, without the interference of a gravy train seeking senior officer or sergeant.
For everyone knows that the backbone of any army are the Corporals and the Lieutenants that lead they way, and pay the price.
I was one of those, and goddamn if I have anything good to say about American support of missions in 1992-97.
Black hawk down; not surprising is it?
Get back to us when one American dead or dying equals one of theirs.

I should add, in closing, that I was glad when “Saving Private Ryan” came out. Many I know thought it was more Yank cheeseburger props, but it brought exposure to a damn near run, and hopefully opened up some learning of history by the guppies.

Hopefully said guppies shall mature unto history sharks and well understand that Omaha Beach was a drop in the bucket. Even Juno had more casualties that day, not to mention what ze Germans suffered everyday on the OstFront.

Don’t even get me started on Vietnam, where the Yanks went out of their way to ignore the advice of the French. As they so often do, often to the point of disparaging the French armed forces.
I suppose that is another bone of contention, but as a student of history I say:
Shame!


#243

I don’t think you can blame the American soldier for that. The blame/credit there goes to the politicians.[/quote]

Correct you are. As any large scale military operation’s success or failure can be placed on the politicians and military commanders. The events I mentioned probably had little to do with the individual soldier’s abilities and more with the numbers involved. An event like the killing of Bin Laden, though, probably required some highly trained/skilled soldiers.

As mentioned, we’ve gone way off topic, but if America’s soldiers killed less civilians and raped less children, I’d be a little more supportive of them.


#244

I don’t think you can blame the American soldier for that. The blame/credit there goes to the politicians.[/quote]

Correct you are. As any large scale military operation’s success or failure can be placed on the politicians and military commanders. The events I mentioned probably had little to do with the individual soldier’s abilities and more with the numbers involved. An event like the killing of Bin Laden, though, probably required some highly trained/skilled soldiers.

As mentioned, we’ve gone way off topic, but if America’s soldiers killed less civilians and raped less children, I’d be a little more supportive of them.[/quote]
One can blame politicians until blue in the face, but it is still a cop-out. The Officer Class is due all blame. Those swarmy greasy pole climbing bastards!
If only more pogues with rank would lead from the front, rather than some cushy HQ disneyland, then wars would be fought in proper fashion.
An officer should have first and foremost in their mind the continuing well-being of the troops under their command. Anything less is cowardice in the face of the enemy.
Most of the NCOs in my own limited experience at command were well shocked when I refused a promotion in order to stay with the chaps. It was only when I well realized the disdain of my fellow officers towards me, that I knew I had done the right thing.
Those Cree mortarmen deserved much more than an over-educated young Leftenant could ever hope to bring to bear.
Ideals are meant to be upheld.


#245

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“navillus”]
What I really want to know, is that given the Yanks shout blue bloody murder about their right to bear arms, why do they make such piss poor soldiers?
[/quote][/quote]

I wasn’t aware that the Yanks made piss poor soldiers. Could you elaborate?[/quote]
Yeah, remember that time the Brits won that war against the US? What was that war again? No, no…not the Revolutionary war. Damn, the name of that conflict is escaping me…


#246

[quote=“Cooperations”][quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“navillus”]
What I really want to know, is that given the Yanks shout blue bloody murder about their right to bear arms, why do they make such piss poor soldiers?
[/quote][/quote]

I wasn’t aware that the Yanks made piss poor soldiers. Could you elaborate?[/quote]
Yeah, remember that time the Brits won that war against the US? What was that war again? No, no…not the Revolutionary war. Damn, the name of that conflict is escaping me…[/quote]
Such comment is beyond even a simpleton.
Some say that time heals all wounds.
Which of course is an utter fabrication, as it merely pulls some more wool over the eyes of the sheep.


#247

Went to the range today for a bit of target practice. I wish that I could get to an outdoor range to plink targets at a longer range, but the indoor range is close-by (walking distance if I wanted to hoof it) and relatively cheap, so I just went there. Had fun putting holes in paper, no innocent bystanders were harmed. I would have played gold today, but my back is still killing me from hitting the gym.


#248

Connecticut school shooting - 26 dead. The latest high profile case of gun violence in USA. Don’t know if strict gun control would have stopped this or the Oregon mall shooting last week or any of the other numerous incidents in the past. It doesn’t matter, gun ownership is guaranteed in the US Constitution and this freedom will be maintained at all costs, no matter what the cost. Right?


#249

Of course we’ll get the same old braindead eff-tards coming out and saying the fault is a lack of religious indoctrination in schools. As if the tem commandments on a wall will stop a psycho from murdering people with guns.

The chief problem is the availability of guns.

Will something be done about it? Of course not. The NRA craves blood, they hold too much power over our politicians, and they have been brainwashing our populace for decades, teaching a twisted interpretation of the 2nd amendment and spewing boatloads of phony statistics and “facts”.

The NRA needs to be disbanded. Guns need to be made much harder to get.


#250

[quote=“Chris”]Of course we’ll get the same old braindead eff-tards coming out and saying the fault is a lack of religious indoctrination in schools. As if the tem commandments on a wall will stop a psycho from murdering people with guns.
[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve been looking at this horse shit splattered all over facebook today. Time to find new friends. It’s not their message that offends me so much, but their timing.

CNN had a piece about school violence in the US, probably more appropiately called school homicide, as much of the violence in schools will never even make local news. Before the 60s, homicides were almost unheard of, and none perpetrated by students. What went wrong?
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/timeline-school-violence/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

And for those asking ‘When is it going to end?’, unfortunately, with people like this roaming the earth, it probably never will.

http://gunowners.org/a12152012.htm

[quote]A gunman whose name we do not need to memorialize took advantage of our gun control laws to slaughter some 20 children and seven adults in a Newton, Connecticut elementary school.

In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut (and most other states). They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.[/quote]


#251

[quote=“navillus”][quote=“Chris”]Of course we’ll get the same old braindead eff-tards coming out and saying the fault is a lack of religious indoctrination in schools. As if the tem commandments on a wall will stop a psycho from murdering people with guns.
[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve been looking at this horse shit splattered all over facebook today. Time to find new friends. It’s not their message that offends me so much, but their timing.

CNN had a piece about school violence in the US, probably more appropiately called school homicide, as much of the violence in schools will never even make local news. Before the 60s, homicides were almost unheard of, and none perpetrated by students. What went wrong?
http://edition.CNN.com/2012/12/14/us/timeline-school-violence/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

And for those asking ‘When is it going to end?’, unfortunately, with people like this roaming the earth, it probably never will.

http://gunowners.org/a12152012.htm

[quote]A gunman whose name we do not need to memorialize took advantage of our gun control laws to slaughter some 20 children and seven adults in a Newton, Connecticut elementary school.

In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut (and most other states). They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.[/quote][/quote]

The shooter wasn’t a student of the school, he came from the outside and brought terror to a peaceful place, this shirt is horribly misguided and my guess is god himself would not approve.


#252

So much for divine omnipotence. :unamused:

(Not to mention that prayer IS allowed in public schools; what’s illegal is for the schools to lead students in prayer.)


#253

After reading this whole thread I think we can apply a similar logic to the one emerging here to the Iranian Nuclear Program issue.

Iran (or any other “rogue country”) makes nukes? Easy solution: make it easy for everyone to make nukes.

Even if one goes off here and there, there is an easy follow-up solution: more nukes.


#254

This comment was quite prescient, although the number was lower than reality. However, although the pro gun (anti gun control) folks have gone quiet for now, they will be back more powerful than ever, arguing that the only solution is for more people to have guns.


#255

Let them come back from silence and argue their case for “gun rights”. I want to see these sickos dare to defend this massacre of innocents.


#256

[quote=“SuperSneakyCow”]Stop politicizing a tragedy.

The best way to defend yourself against guns is to buy more guns, and carry more than one at the same time.

The tragedy could have been prevented if other people brought guns to the theater, so don’t give me this big government no guns bullllllshit.[/quote]

Yes, you are right. Too bad the teachers and perhaps kids themselves at Sandy Hook Elementary didn’t all pack guns. The solution is for everyone to pack a gun, so they can defend themselves. Why have all the pro gun people on this forum gone quiet? Stand up for your right to own a gun!


#257

Time to end this nonsense:

people should be allowed guns to protect themselves from carjackers and home invaders etc. and people should be allowed to hunt.

I think 95% of people think this is acceptable.

the idea that you need to protect yourself from the government with automatic rifles is f*cking laughabale.

if the government wanted you dead, it would be a quick predator drone strike and boom, goodnight.

rifles and shotguns for hunting and hand guns, 9mm etc. to protect yourself.

asking for anything else makes you a stooge and a delusional moron.

Whoop! there it is (95 is still alive)


#258

For those that don’t know him, Major General Peter Cosgrove is an Australian.
General Cosgrove was interviewed on the radio recently.
Read his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you have to love this! This is one of the best comeback lines of all time. In a portion of an ABC radio interview between a female broadcaster and General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military Headquarters.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:!
We’re going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That’s a bit irresponsible, isn’t it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:I don’t see why, they’ll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:Don’t you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:I don’t see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:But you’re equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:Well, Ma’am, you’re equipped to be a prostitute, but you’re not one, are you?
The radiocast went silent for 46 seconds and when it returned, this interview was over. :slight_smile:


#259

It’s a great story. But, that’s just what it is, a story. There’s an American version out there as well.

snopes.com/military/reinwald.asp


#260

It’s a great story. But, that’s just what it is, a story. There’s an American version out there as well.

snopes.com/military/reinwald.asp[/quote]
Ah…thanks,it seems to have many variations,I should check my sources! Wait! You guys do that :slight_smile: Cheers.