What I’m saying is ban such weapons because they make it easy for horrific crimes to be perpetrated. The fact is that the civilized world does not allow people to own such weapons. If there are any exceptions, I’m all ears. Point taken though. Advanced world? First world? Whichever.
I’m not interested in trying to ban all weapons.
But I’m still unclear on your stance, you said you want to ban automatic weapons, but the weapon used in Florida is semi automatic.
I’d definitely include semi-automatic rifles, submachine guns and the like.
Ok sure. I’m not disagreeing with you on this. Although I’m not fully sold that we should. I’m still working on forming a position I feel confident in standing on.
However, like you said. The American society is sick. I think I’m many ways sicker than others. We aren’t talking about the average rebellious disgruntled youth. We got a drug epidemic growin out of control killing more people than ever. We’ve been fighting the war on drugs and it’s a complete failure because like using guns in mass shootings, drugs are not the problem. They are a symptom in my honest opinion. I don’t buy the ban guns and things will just be better argument, not saying that’s your full argument. But why is no one addressing some of the deeper issues I think are tied with what we are seeing. Prisons are packed, they can’t build prisons fast enough for send people to. Depression and suicides rates are high and seems to be rising even though things are technically better than ever before. There’s just so much wrong with American society. Maybe the banning of semi automatic rifles are a good start. But i think it’s not as simple as that. Those with the mindset of mass murders will still be there, maybe now with less access to guns…but they’re still there and I’m guessing there will be many ways for them to manifest their sick thoughts. How to we prevent people from getting to that point? I don’t know. But id like to investigate more and invest more into healing our society.
I wish I can more eloquently put everything together. I know I’m blabbering on a bit on a few subjects. But I strongly think there’s a lot more than meets the eye here.
I don’t know if I much more to add. I’m guessing many people who go with ban all guns are not even American, gun culture is part of many people’s life, hell its even the 2nd amendment in the constitution. You can say what you want about pro gun people, evil maybe. But they’re still part of the democratic process and the worthless statement of saying why can’t americans just ban guns is ignorant to the situation. They watch on news and hear about it, and think they can just impose this idea so simply.
I totally agree with you that the problems run deeper. But I’m not sure it matters. I think the weapons themselves are a problem. Even in the ideal society, I can’t see a clear reason to allow them. If a society is dysfunctional, it seems that there’s all the more reason not to allow it. I’d use the analogy of a mental patient walking down the street with an AR-15. No one would say “Why should we take his gun away? We need to address the underlying issues here.” That’s obviously unsatisfactory, and you know what–even if you could cure his issues, you’d still have a guy walking down the street with an AR-15.
So this seems like a no brainer to me. Yes there would be a lot more to figure out and address, and no it won’t solve every problem. But it’s easily addressed legally if the will is there, without disadvantages I can see except it will make some people upset because they want them. That’s just not a priority for me, and I intend to take what action I can in the future to make it harder to possess such weapons.
Well in a ideal society we wouldn’t not only not need guns. We wouldn’t have them. I actually think we should have the right to bare arms because we don’t live in a ideal society. Why should the police, which have been more and more militarized. In fact, one thing I liked about what Obama was he ended the 1033 program allowing the military to give excess weapons to the police. Trump wants to (or has) reversed that policy. Which is kinda weird because the hardcore 2nd amendment militia people who are usually trump supporters should be up and arms about it, pun intended. Makes you think maybe they just want their guns right?
And I’m ok with not having guns, although I would like to have the right to in Taiwan, is because the police here aren’t as militarized in training and in equipment. But with the CCP making their stance that they will use military action to retake the island, I think Taiwan can make a case for having the right to bare arms against foreign invaders.
I also have an issue of the arguement that i keep hearing and seeing. It’s been popular and trending to post that when the 2nd amendment was written the founding fathers meant single fire muskets. And times have changed and the amendment should change or be removed. However The amount of damage or firing rate isn’t the issue they wanted to address. The 2nd amendment was written with the purpose to giving people the ability to defend themselves against a tyrannical government from ruling over them. So as weapons change, I think you can make a case that you almost need more powerful weapons whether right or wrong.
Yes very true. I have no issues with the analogy and find it true and agree we should make it extremely hard if not next to impossible for people at high risks of doing things like we just saw in Florida to own any firearm. I’m not ok with the NRA having so much pull and even making it possible for people with mental health issues to purchase a firearm.
Is it? With the NRA and most politicians being in their pockets and their constituents that like you know would defend their guns to the death? Sounds really hard to me. And that’s no excuse not to make legal changes, but I don’t think it’ll be easy at all. And remember the 2nd amendment was mostly for state militias to keep the federal government in check. Even if things got done on the federal level, you have the gave the 2nd amendment people their justification for having guns. You can bet many states will push back in a number of way. That’s the problem of messing with the 2nd amendment, trying to change it justifies the reason to have it.
Maybe like the war on drugs, prohibition, you will create more violence as a result making guns in a country that has such a high demand for it by the people of it by pushing it into a unregulated black market.
And I’ve grown tired of how the media and politicians and people have been using the emotional appeal way of arguing for changes in gun laws. Maybe I’m cold, but crying “for the kids”’ isn’t appealing to me at all and turning me off. Most people will probably just say I’m arrogant and maybe I am. But I don’t buy into simple rhetoric like this like most uneducated and unintelligent people. I think most people are really stupid, and are sheeps.
If your plan is to solve America’s problems by making it more Swiss, you can start by constitutionally recognizing multiple languages, supporting the UN, and being neutral in every military conflict. Good luck with that.
Re prohibition:
I’ll say it again. If you take the prohibition only makes things worse argument to its logical conclusion, you should decriminalize slavery among other things. Good luck with that too. (Ran out of emojis.)
Re arms:
Agreed, but is it not reasonable to place some restrictions on that right? I mean, as a teacher, I wouldn’t exercise it in the workplace.
You missed my point in a couple of places, I believe.
Some people would want them because they like them, or people could come from other societies and attack us, or things could change, or whatever reason. Anyway, my point is that I don’t see a need for them in any civilized society, and I do mean that word here. If a society is more dysfunctional, the possession of such weapons is more of a problem.
Agree. I’m not necessarily opposed in principle, but it’s been getting out of hand.
Yet there are all kinds of weapons which people aren’t allowed to own, even though the military has them.
Compared to trying to solve the problems of drug addiction leading to mental health disorders, disaffected angry youths willing to kill, etc? I think it’s trivial. Make a law. Easy, if the will is there as I said. If our democratic system can’t handle making laws for its people then it’s not worth a thing anyway.
Yet all kinds of weapons are not allowed.
You could say that about anything made illegal, but we still make things illegal. Children are being killed by these things. That’s an imperative.
I care about children and anyone else being gunned down when simply trying to go about their daily lives. If that’s what that makes me, I’m fine with it.
Speaking of military weapons, a few years ago they showed these laser-like things on TV that caused enough pain to stop people in their tracks but wouldn’t do lasting damage unless you kept shooting after the people had fallen down helpless. They said they wanted to use them for riot control because they’re safer than tear gas and rubber bullets (and normal bullets obviously), and possibly even in warfare.
Whatever happened to those? Are civilians allowed to buy them?
There are a lot of canards that take to flight every time the gun issue comes up. I’ll take on a few:
“Automatic weapons.” Full auto weapons have been outlawed in the US for decades. Only semi-auto rifles and handguns are allowed for civilian use.
'Assault rifles" Only full auto rifles used by a military can be defined as such, not civilian variants.
But what about “‘AR’-15?” That stands for Armalite Rifle, after the company that developed it.
“Background checks” Already a thing.
“The AR round does a lot of damage compared to handguns” And so do most rifle rounds generally. In fact, there are much more powerful rifle calibers-- also available in semi-auto-- than the most common AR. The AR has become the copycat killer weapon of choice, not because it is the most effective, but because the assailants are nuts and are imitating other killers that came before them.
Aside from this, it is worth noting that the vast majority of gun murders are carried out using handguns.
“But what about Australia, some random country in Europe etc.” The US a very large country by population, over 10 times the size of Australia. It also possesses very different demographics and culture. Direct comparisons are of no particular relevance. You also have to look at how statistics are collected and presented. The US includes suicides, over half the reported gun death in the US, in their gun violence statistics. Other countries do not. One could go on and on…
Finally, let’s consider people’s responses: A guy bashes in a person’s head with a baseball bat. Response? "What’s wrong with him? A guy shoots another person. Response? “Ban everyone from owning firearms!” Why individual responsibility for one and collective punishment for the other? Violence in the US a complex phenomenon that involves a number of factors, availability of firearms being only one of them. Even partisans like Michael Moore will admit to that fact. The US Second Amendment isn’t new, nor are civilian AR rifles. Something else is afoot. Knee jerk reactions that would strip rights from tens of millions of law abiding citizens-- especially when it’s becoming clear that there were other more important factors in this latest shooting-- would not only be unpopular; it would be nigh on impossible and wouldn’t deal with the root of the problem besides.
So law abiding citizens back through history always had access to this kind of weaponry ? (Ironically the last shooter was far from law abiding…)
Law abiding citizens existed in the USSR and NAZI Germany and Communist China too.
The southern Slave holders were law abiding too. Doesn’t mean they were right ( not advocating anything but democratic process here but law abiding is a very tired meme ).
Shouldn’t you use the more emotive ‘gun grabbing’ to reinforce your collection of memes?
Yes assault rifles do a lot more damage than handguns.
Also they come with bigger magazines.
Also easily modded and converted to automatic like rifles e.g. bump stocks.
That there are some assault rifles that are more powerful than others isn’t some kind of insight.
They should all be banned and you can reduce casualty rates in mass shooting. There will be plenty of other guns and rifles to choose from. I’m sure gun ranges could still stock assault rifles for enthusiasts to shoot with.
Law abiding citizens voted the NAZIs into power and kept them there. How was the government lawless?
Now check your facts regarding NAZI Germany and gun ownership. Otherwise delete your statement because it’s false and misleading. Otherwise known as plain fucking wrong.
The gun policy of the Nazis can hardly be compared to the democratic procedures of gun regulations by law," Ellerbrock told us. "It was a kind of special administrative practice (Sonderrecht), which treated people in different ways according to their political opinion or according to ‘racial identity’ in Nazi terms."
The power of a police state
In short, Nazi-era Germany imposed greater gun restrictions for Jews (and other perceived enemies) at the same time it loosened gun restrictions for other groups
