Visitor Visa to ARC - New Law?

Legal Visa & Residency
21

[quote=“kategelan”]Yes, but given the complete mess the system is in now, we won’t know that for sure until some poor sucker with a Visitor Visa is refused at BOCA Taipei when he or she tries to exchange visas.

I’m not trying to be pedantic but I just dont believe anything apart from the direct experience of a user of the system anymore. I especially dont believe what one TW bureaucrat tells me another one in the same system will do. Haven’t we discovered that many of them don’t know their asp from their elbow?

In every country the visa and work permit system is usually administered by people who will never have to navigate it themselves. But Taiwanese officialdom seem stunningly unable to make that leap of imagination necessary to arrive at a fair, transparent and administratively efficient set of procedures. Unless they just don’t want to? :astonished:[/quote]

Fair enough. I thought that when the Labour Concil confirmed what HK said, that was evidence.

But I suppose nothing is evidence in Taiwan.

22

This is exactly what I had been informed by my school. The fact that they had recently done this with some of their other teachers proved it to me.

And the woman herself told me ‘Last month you can do this. Now you cannot do this’.

Speaking as one who had the painful experience (and has now made 2 visa runs to HK and has to make a 3rd, and no ARC yet), I can only say amen.

23

[quote=“Fortigurn”][quote=“kategelan”]Yes, but given the complete mess the system is in now, we won’t know that for sure until some poor sucker with a Visitor Visa is refused at BOCA Taipei when he or she tries to exchange visas.

I’m not trying to be pedantic but I just dont believe anything apart from the direct experience of a user of the system anymore. I especially dont believe what one TW bureaucrat tells me another one in the same system will do. Haven’t we discovered that many of them don’t know their asp from their elbow?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I thought that when the Labour Concil confirmed what HK said, that was evidence.

But I suppose nothing is evidence in Taiwan.[/quote]

Yes, it is evidence. But not direct evidence that the BOCA won’t exchange a Visitor Visa for a Resident one. People are saying so, and you, [color=red]‘my huckleberry’[/color], have come the closest to showing what is actually happening.

But at the end of the day a crazy passport-snatcher turned you down for a Visitor Visa for a reason that can’t be genuine (i.e. intention to work) and not any of the possible legitimate legal reasons (e.g. intention to stay more than six months). (I know none of this is any comfort for the inconvenience and annoyance.) To someone who has been turned down it doesn’t make much difference why, it’s equally inconvenient. But to someone applying in the future it’s useful to know the things that might legally (or practically) get you turned down.

Given
1 - that the xiaojie in Hong Kong was obviously a psycho and
2 - she doesn’t even seem particularly well versed in her own rules (For starters, she says a Visitor Visa (ting liu qianzheng) is only for tourism. That’s crap!)

I’d just like to hear what actually happens if someone tries to change from Visitor to Resident Visa in-country. Of course, if they really will never issue Visitor Visas to people for employment (or study) purposes ever again regardless of how short the intended stay is it may be a moot point. But at least we will know soon.

The truth is that we can probably live with whatever procedures they put in place as long as we have a completely clear picture of what they are.

24

If anybody successfully negotiates with their school to have them cover some/all of the costs relating to a mandatory trip to HK, please could you let us know.
I’m waiting till I arrive in Taiwan and see what the situation is before I try my luck, if need be.

25

I’d like to share some of my personal experiences, as it relates to a foreign wife/spouse coming to Taiwan from abroad. I’ve been working on finding the right procedure to bring my wife to Taiwan from Malaysia for a bit.

I blew a casket today from the sheer retardedness of the process but now finally calmed down enough to post this. Before I tell the story, I’d like to summarize the lessons learned and how one should navigate the byzantine Taiwanese bureaucracy. Also, this story isn’t over yet.

First, don’t believe everything you read that was written or posted by a government bureau. Second, always get clarification of such posted rules and/or regulations because these are purposely written vaguely. This is because the government bureaucracy doesn’t have a procedure and understanding of what goes on themselves. Therfore, they need to be vague enough to give themselves “wiggle” room. Third, to expedite the process, you (the person in question) need to appear in person to get the right clarification of the rules and/or regulations in question. Another reason for appearing in person is that if not, you will be given the run around or a completely different answer because you used a proxy to represent you. I discovered this nasty surprise today inadvertantly. Fourth, the “obvious” government bureau may not actually be the right starting point for the process you’re attempting to complete. You might discover that you have to work backwards to find the right process and right government bureau to tell you how it should work. IOW, find out which government bureau needs the information that directly affects what it is you’re trying to accomplish.

So, I relate the following information gained from my experience so far:

  1. 60-day visas - You can get them for (1) work purposes, and (2) residency purposes (aka immigration, permanent residency). Therefore, my reading is that you now merely have a 30-day landing visa for tourists and these are non-extendable. It also means 60-day visas no longer exist for “tourist” purposes. The loop-hole that allowed people to stay longer to work out paperwork for other entry reasons appears closed.

We found this “rule” out when my wife went to the KL TECO office to apply for entry to Taiwan. I told her don’t make the same mistake that I did earlier with my ARC problem where I had a 30-day landing visa when it expired and my ARC didn’t come through forcing me to do a visa jump. The idea being that it would be preferable for her to stay longer to work out the paperwork and avoid needless visa jumps and so we said 60-days should be enough time. So she inquired and found out to stay longer than 30-days she had to show (1) work or (2) residency based on several factors, one of which was marriage, which is indeed our case.

  1. The KL TECO office gave my wife a list of documentary requirements to enter the country as a new wife of a ROC National. The list stated the following:

[quote]Application for a Resident Visa
If the applicant is abroad, please apply for a resident visa directly at a ROC overseas mission. If the applicant has entered by a visitor visa, please apply for a resident visa at the Bureau of Consular Affairs (including Taichung, Kaohsiung and Hualien branch offices) of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Required Documents: -

  1. Household Certificate issued within the past three months (For those who have registered their marriage, please clearly indicate the nationality and the foreign - language name of applicant’s spouse)

  2. Certificate of Marriage Registration issued by applicant’s native government (For those countries with no marriage registration system, please present in the Certificate of Marriage)

  3. Certificate for No Criminal Record or Certificate of Good Conduct

  4. Health Examination Certificate issued by a foreign medical examination hospital designated by the Bureau of Public Health or by a qualified overseas hospital within the past three months

  5. Passport (The remaining of passport validity shall be no less than six months)

  6. Two photos

(If the above documents, from item 2 to item 4 are made abroad, they shall be authenticated by a ROC overseas mission first, and if they are made in language other than Chinese or English, Chinese or English translation must be attached)
[/quote]

Contrast that with this from the Department of Civil Affairs Taipei Q&A web page:

  1. Question, how does one reconcile the differences in information, requirements?
    A: You ask in person. I did, and got the biggest damn run around you can possibly imagine.

  2. Question, how does one fulfill the HRC requirement as mentioned by both rules and regulations?
    A: One answer I received as that my wife needed to come to Taiwan. Ok, so if she comes here, she comes how? If she comes with a 30-day landing visa, then tries to change status, is that fraudulent? If this is ok, can such a change be made? But if she comes on a 60-day visa which is allowed, then how is it possible for her to get her name on my HRC document without being here in person and with what proof do I need?

  3. Question, which department is the governing one?
    A: Reasonable people would think that it’s the TECO office, the one that permits entry into Taiwan. However, after the run around today I got and additional reading of the above resources, it looks like the TECO office is the wrong place to start (I’m still incredulous).

It appears from what I’ve learned today that the correct government bureau is the Household Registration Office, those people who control one’s HRC (household registration certificate). The TECO statement saying that one can change status from a visitor to a residency one through the Bureau of Consular Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs appears to be incorrect from what I was told today. I will validate this theory tomorrow when I go there to find out how and what to do about my wife’s case. However, the reason why the HRC dept is probably the correct department to start with is because these people are the ones with the clearest rules and regulations and who indirectly control other government bureaus that affect people’s residency, movement, and existence. The TECO office will always refer back to the HRC dept for clarification of a person’s status as the HRC department control and certifies a person’s identify and existence in Taiwan. I believe this is true as this also happened to me earlier this year (another strange story).

Anyways, this is the end of part one and I needed to post this as a cathartic exercise. If anyone has questions, I’d like to know what I may have missed and answer any holes that pop out from these trials and tribulations.

I can only restate that in Taiwan, everything is possible and nothing is what it appears to be. The system can be gamed; infact, it’s part of the process. Do not impose one’s Western notions to this system. It won’t work and you will only stress yourself out needlessly. Taiwan is not a place governed by the rule of law. And always validate my experiences by asking the right questions, as I do with the experiences of other’s who’ve posted here.

Side Note: I found an interesting tid-bit of information which is that the ROC does distinguish foreigners based on blood lines. So, that if you can somehow show that you were descendent of a ROC citizen/national, then you are automatically eligible for as best as I can tell a “fast track” for entry, PR-ship and ultimately citizenship. Since that wasn’t my issue, I didn’t follow up with that.

26

THat’s right!

As far as the visa system is concerned this place is becoming more and more illogical.

In the past the government didn’t follow their own rules exactly but at least everybody knew where the ‘work-arounds’ were.

I hate to think of the aggravation and economic cost of all this to businesses and individuals. Added to the fact that once you get the precious ARC it can be withdrawn at any time by administrative whim. This country is going backwards. Taiwan as an Asia-Pacific Operations Centre, what a joke!

Now Iseh is saying, presumably, that (in KL) if you are entitled to visa-free entry you cannot get a (60-day? 30-day?) Visitor Visa to vist. You can only get a Visitor Visa for joining family or employment purposes.

This is the diametric opposite of Fortigurn’s experience in Hong Kong. :astonished:

Man oh man… when the time comes to navigate this thing again there are at least some of us who will think seriously of just getting the hell off the island and go somewhere else unless things improve.

27

[quote=“kategelan”]THat’s right!

As far as the visa system is concerned this place is becoming more and more illogical.

In the past the government didn’t follow their own rules exactly but at least everybody knew where the ‘work-arounds’ were.[/quote]

Yes, and things are slowly changing but each department and TECO office appears to have different rules. This is going to play total havoc on people trying to figure out which country is the best place to make their jump for whatever it is they want to do. :blush:

I agree. I feel like some schmuck who was played the fool. Days like the one I had yesterday make me feel like I made a grave strategic mistake coming to Taiwan. This country is so not ready for the 21st century. It’s going to be catching up to the Philippines soon if they don’t stop this idiocy.

Yes, that is the right reading.

You can say that again. Bizarre is not a strong enough word to capture the essence of what is going on.

Yes, indeed.

28

I was personally able to change my visitor’s visa to a resident visa August 31st, so unless they changed the “rules/law” within the last 3 weeks, I don’t think its true.

2 quick points.

  1. When going for 60 day visa just check the Visiting box, and don’t mention work. At least thats the advice if U R coming from Canada, they not physcho like da HK lady snds like. Its hassle free, no questions asked and U get 60 days to workout whatever is needed.

  2. No one can keep your passport without your permission, if they do, call your countries embassy so they can send in da SWAT team to retrieve it.

Good luck getting your ARC…it can get pretty scary at times

29

Taiwanese Law.

My favourite oxymoron.

30

Your visitor visa was granted under what reasons? Which office did you apply for the 60-visitor (aka I’m here for fun, vacationing, joy-riding etc) visa?

Because the KL TECO office does not permit that. They ask you if you’re using it for work or for residency purposes. If either of them fit your situation, then yes, you can change your status but only because that’s how the new procedures appears to work. If you’re here “visiting”/“joy riding”/“I’m taking a 60-day sabbatical in Taiwan”, then no, you’re not going to get that 60-day “fun” visa from the KL TECO office.

So, it would be interesting to find out which countries are willing to do what for people coming to Taiwan. We could try to put together a database of countries and their particular “rules”. Like whistleblower says, “Taiwanese Law” is an oxymoron.

31

When apply visitor visa, dont tell Taipei Representative office that you are going to Taiwan to work unless you already got original work permit to show them. In that case, you can get Resident Visa directly.

32

Well, the fun is about to begin for me.

Not having full information on this change, I applied for and received a 60-day, multiple-entry Visitor Visa. I don’t know whether I should bow to the TECRO office or puke at what I will need to do next.

I have not secured a specific position in Taiwan yet, so I know I will have to leave the country to get the ubiquitous Resident Visa. Does it sound like HK or KL will be better? Perhaps I should try Macao to see what their take is? Any other thoughts?

Any help would be appreciated. :slight_smile:

33

I will be going back to the KL TECO office next week. I will return and post my experiences. Hopefully, now that I’ve gone to the HRC department and received clearer instructions, I can paint a better picture of what is what after this trip.

34

[quote=“Mindmixer”]
I have not secured a specific position in Taiwan yet, so I know I will have to leave the country to get the ubiquitous Resident Visa. [/quote]

As long as you get your workpermit sorted out in good time I don’t think you will need to leave Taiwan to get a resident visa. I was in HK in June and they told me I would have to go back to get my resident visa as these were no longer granted in Taiwan. I exchanged my visitor visa for a resident visa in Kaohsiung in August, so I guess she was talking shit. Nobody has yet posted saying that they have been prevented from doing the normal exchange.

BTW if you do get refused by one BOCA you can always try another one as they all seem to have different policies anyway.

35

Thanks for that piece of advice. We’ll see whether push comes to shove. :sunglasses:

36

So part 2 of the continuing saga, I went back to Malaysia and visited the KL TECO office to finish submitting paperwork for my wife’s 60-day visa.

[quote]
2. The KL TECO office gave my wife a list of documentary requirements to enter the country as a new wife of a ROC National. The list stated the following:

[quote]Application for a Resident Visa
If the applicant is abroad, please apply for a resident visa directly at a ROC overseas mission. If the applicant has entered by a visitor visa, please apply for a resident visa at the Bureau of Consular Affairs (including Taichung (Taizhong), Kaohsiung (Gaoxiong) and Hualian branch offices) of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Required Documents: -

  1. Household Certificate issued within the past three months (For those who have registered their marriage, please clearly indicate the nationality and the foreign - language name of applicant’s spouse)

  2. Certificate of Marriage Registration issued by applicant’s native government (For those countries with no marriage registration system, please present in the Certificate of Marriage)

  3. Certificate for No Criminal Record or Certificate of Good Conduct

  4. Health Examination Certificate issued by a foreign medical examination hospital designated by the Bureau of Public Health or by a qualified overseas hospital within the past three months

  5. Passport (The remaining of passport validity shall be no less than six months)

  6. Two photos

(If the above documents, from item 2 to item 4 are made abroad, they shall be authenticated by a ROC overseas mission first, and if they are made in language other than Chinese or English, Chinese or English translation must be attached)
[/quote][/quote]

Ok, so this is the real practical translation their own rules.

  1. You do not need a medical report as they stated.

  2. You do need to bring your original household registration document because they take it. A copy is no good.

  3. You do need a copy of your Taiwanese ID if you’re a ROC national.

  4. You do need a copy of your (Taiwanese) passport.

  5. You do need your Malaysian marriage certificate.

  6. You do need to translate into Chinese and certify that it is a true translation copy of your marriage certificate (Commissioner of Oaths with certify it for you for RM 5).

  7. You do need the photos.

  8. Certificate of Good Conduct. You do need to have the original. However, if you do not because you lost it or used it for another purpose, there is a work around for this. You need to make a photocopy of your original and have a Commissioner of Oaths certify that it is a true copy of the original. Then you take that certified copy to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Putrajaya and have them certify that document as true and original. Then the TECO office will accept that in lieu of the original document.

So what was the result of all this paperwork and traveling back and forth?

  1. 1 Multiple Re-entry resident visa RM420. (A single entry resident visa is RM210). Multiple Re-entry resident visas are good for 90-days meaning you can enter/exit as many times in that 90 day period. Are they extendable? Did not ask as it didn’t seem necessary. This visa is useful if say the couple needs to return to the spouse’s home country for other obligations requiring a return. Someone posted that they don’t exist. Well, they exist in the KL TECO office. They may exist in other TECO offices too. It is rare though because at first the KL TECO office did not mention it only except when prompted because we said that our travel plans were in flux and may need to come back to Malaysia. Only then were we told about the multiple re-entry resident visa.

  2. RM 240 expedited processing fee for same day service.

  3. Visa pickup hours between 3:00 - 4:30pm.

Altogether a spousal visa for Taiwan cost me almost NTD9000. :astonished:

When we were there, we saw a two other people also going through the same process and felt sorry because it seems that the information is always never complete. The TECO folks only give you what you need at the time but never enough to fully get it all done. Some poor guy had to come back after repeating himself several times to figure out what it is they wanted him to do. Frustrating.

So now, the second step is to take the paperwork and submit it to the Household Registration Office here and that will be part 3… and hopefully the end.

37

Hi, I have been reading on this forum to try to find some real information, but feel I am getting more confused instead.

I am here on a student visa now, but would like to start working in a company (not a school)

They have told me I need to show the University diploma and passport plus a proof of two years work experience.

I do not really have the proof of work experience.

I did work partime as a university student for two years in a company, but the job was just for students. I do however have certified documentation for that job.

I find this work permit jungle of Taiwan rather confusing and dont know if there is a chance I can get a work permit with that work experience I have.

Is there someone else who has experience with this?

I am not married to a Taiwanese.

What do I get first, the work permit or the ARC, how about re-entry permit?

Why can’t Taiwan fix this?
There is no need for it to be so confusing. I think some of you are right about that many foreigners are going to go somewhere else if Taiwan does not make the process of getting a work permit more simple and reliable.
It is ok if it is difficult to get, but it should at least be the same each time someone tries, not depending on the guy you talk with or the weather,

I hope someone can help me.

38

Tag, Kynde,

I saw your post here as well.
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=24120

I don’t know whether your student internship counts under the law. However, when I applied, I don’t think anyone actually checked my experience other than to get a letter of reference from my last employer. (I have a much longer work history and have been out of college/grad school for 15 years, so that may have been why.) Other than faking it, I would think that as long as your internship employer was willing to sign a reference letter showing that you had worked for them for 2+ years, that would probably be enough, but you should probably take other people’s word on this over mine.

You definitely need to get the work permit first. After that, you must get a resident visa, and then you get your ARC. The timeline is, once you get the work permit, you have until your visa runs out to get your resident visa. Once you get your resident visa, you have at most 15 days to apply for your ARC.

The resident visa application fee depends on your home country. For a Canadian coworker, it was NT$3000. This is a single-entry visa, which they automatically mark “used”. You have to get your ARC before you can leave and reenter without risking trouble, so don’t plan on taking any trips between getting the visa and getting the ARC. The ARC fee is NT$1000 per year (or part thereof), and it will only last for as long as your resident visa is good for.

It’s confusing, and there is misinformation on both sides. Good luck on it. Don’t worry too much; be polite and smile a lot, and maybe grovel a little, they like that.

39

Hi all,
I just picked up my Resident Visa today. Other than having trouble figuring out WHERE to go for WHAT, I haven’t had any problems so far. Here is what I did:

1- Applied for Visitor Visa in the US before I came through the Chicago Passport Agency. I got a 60-day, multiple entry, renewable-twice Visitor Visa. I’m pretty sure I checked the boxes for both employment and tourism when I filled out the form (see note at bottom*)

2- Came to Taiwan. Got my job.

3- Went to the hospital and got my health check.

4- My school applied for my work permit.

5- Got the work permit and receipt. Took them to the City Police Department. Asked them to extend my visa. They took the reciept for the work permit and granted me a two month extension.

6- Went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Bureau of Consular Affairs and applied for my Resident Visa. This cost 4000 NT… ouch! Showed them my work permit, health check, and gave them copies of my work permit, health check, and passport. Left my passport there (as you do when applying for visas).

7- Went back on the day on my receipt. Picked up my resident visa with no problem.

So… the next step is to apply for the ARC at the City Police Department. Why, you ask? Because you can’t apply for the ARC without the Resident Visa! There and back again, it seems. If I have any trouble with this, I will let you know. It seems pretty stupid. I’ve heard that the Resident Visa just gets cancelled when you get your ARC anyway, but if that’s what it takes to get all of this sorted out, so be it. I won’t complain as long as there IS a way.

*My boyfriend is moving here at the end of this month. He was just granted a tourist visa from the Chicago Passport Agency, 60-day, multiple entry, good for 5 years. This means that he can use it for five years as long as he simply leaves the country every 60 days, with no extra paperwork. Just FYI.

40

That’s the way it’s usually been done up until now. So it looks like the ‘new way’ hasn’t come into effect yet.

Brian