Warning - toong mao hotels

Travel Taiwan Travel
1

I just got back from an otherwise nice vacation to Hualien, Taitung (Chiben), and Kenting. In Kenting we stayed at the Toong Mao Resort Hotel. I STRONGLY URGE EVERYONE HERE TO AVOID THIS HOTEL LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!

On Friday, August 6th, we asked them at the front desk if they would be able to book airline tickets for us back to Taipei, and they said no problem, we could even get a flight out of the new Hengchun airport which was only 14 kilometers away. They gave us a list a flights to choose from and we chose a 3:15 PM flight on Sunday. They took down our ID card #'s, names, etc. and told us that the tickets were booked, all we had to do was show up at the ticket counter at the airport on the day we were leaving, show them our ID’s, and pay for the tickets there. We spoke with the reception desk several times afterward to confirm that our tickets were in fact booked, and each time they said yes, they were already booked and we definitely had seats.

On Sunday afternoon, they called a taxi for us (which wasn’t even a taxi but some guy’s car that cost us NT$300 to go to the aiport, they didnt tell us that there was a bus we could take from RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE HOTEL for only NT$30). We arrived at the airport in Hengchun and were surprised to see no one there. A customer service representative from Mandarin Airlines came out and asked us what we were doing there. We told her we had a flight for 3:15, and she said that was impossible, because they didn’t have any flights for that time that day. We told her that the hotel had booked the seats for us, and she checked and said there was no record of the hotel booking seats for us, and since the flight they booked didn’t exist (they even checked to see if they had mistakenly booked us at Pingtung, which they hadn’t). She called the hotel and got in an argument with the people at the hotel who kept trying to blame the airline when it was obviously the hotel’s fault. They didn’t even have a confirmation number, so how could they have booked the tickets? Their attitude to the woman from Mandarin Airlines was evil, and they just kept trying to blame everyone else they could think of.

Anyway, they sent a car to take us to Kaohsiung. We had originally planned to be back in Taipei by 4:30, but didn’t even get to Kaohsiung until nearly 6:30. The hotel was rude to us on the phone and said none of this was their responsibility. They dropped us off in Kaohsiung and said it was up to us to find our way back to Taipei. They wouldnt pay for our airline tickets, any other kind of compensation, not even the NT$300 we wasted on the taxi to the Hengchun airport that they arranged for us.

Later on the phone, we asked to speak with the manager, and they refused to get him to come to the phone. Their attitude throughout was terrible, and they cursed at both me and my Taiwanese friend. All we wanted was for them to pay the NT$4000 for the two plane tickets to compensate us for all of the trouble and delay that THEY caused because they screwed up. They just kept lying, saying that it was Li Rong airline and not Mandarin (Li Rong had no flights for that day at all). Then they said that we mixed up the times and dates which was also impossible since they knew what time we were going to the airport because they were the ones who arranged the car to take us there, and there was no mix up since there was no record in the computer of a reservation for us for any day, time, or airline in Hengchun or Pingtung. Finally, they just got even more nasty and hung up the phone on us.

We are seriously considering getting an attorney to sue for the amount of the airline tickets, as well as a refund of the NT$10,000 that we spent for three nights there (the service was awful the whole time, they were the rudest people I’ve ever come across in my more than 3 years living here), plus the NT$300 taxi fare that was wasted.

Anyway, if anyone is thinking about staying at any of their hotels (they have quite a few across Taiwan), DO NOT … you will get screwed over. I strongly urge all foreigners (and Taiwanese for that matter) to avoid this hotel chain.

And … if anyone knows of a good lawyer to talk to, please send me a PM … I’d really appreciate it!

:fume: :fume: :fume:

2

First, you say you’re looking for a good lawyer. Isn’t that an oxymoron?

Second, sorry about the terrible treatment. That sucks and I’m glad you publicized it here. I hope they lose more business as a result. But, to be honest, it’s not worth the trouble of hiring a lawyer in my opinion. You say,

From a legal perspective, there are basically two things one must prove in any lawsuit in order to prevail: liability and damages. Liability means they violated your legal rights, whether those rights were created by statute, regulation, contract or otherwise. Damages means actual, definite provable monetary loss.

From a practical perspective there are other considerations such as evidence (written evidence, photos, videos, etc. are obviously much more desirable than mere testimony of a witness), possible local bias, costs of hiring an attorney (usually at least US$200/hour), other costs (such as time off from work and travel to court if required), and the fact that being tied up in a legal dispute guarantees that you’ll remain in a crappy mood, pissed off at the wrongdoers, the lawyers, the judge, the legal sytem, the costs of it all, etc., rather than being able to move forward and forgedaboudit. That last matter is more significant than most people realize and for that reason one should never fight a legal dispute unless there is very strong evidence of wrongdoing and you suffered, or will suffer if the other side is not restrained, serious damages.

In this case, while it sucks what happened, I don’t believe the cost benefit analysis weighs in favor of hiring a lawyer. Did they violate your legal rights? Probably? It sounds like fraud or misrepresentation – intentional (or negligent) statement of material facts made for the purpose of inducing you to rely on the statement, which you did, thereby suffering damages as a result. Did you suffer monetary damages as a result of their wrongdoing? Probably, but from my understanding the damages don’t include the airfare. You were going to fly anyway. Nor do the damages include the bill for the room. You were going to stay there anyway. Maybe your damages include the taxi fare, but that NT$300 would be offset by just a few minutes of your lawyer’s time.

What do you want a lawyer to do? A lawyer can send a demand letter to them, explaining about the horrible treatment and false information, and demand a refund of the room and airfare. He’ll likely charge you US$200 times at least a couple of hours time. The hotel will likely either ignore the demand letter or write back that it’s untrue. Then what? If someone doesn’t pay voluntarily, the only way to compel them to pay is to file litigation (in Pintung or wherever it was in this case). A lawsuit will cost you tens of thousands of NT$ and there is no guarantee you will prevail. In fact there’s a good chance you won’t. But even if your lawyer does a fantastic job and you get the airfare, room and taxi fare back, that will be less than your attorney fees, not to mention your costs, and aggravation, to travel to trial in Pintung. Can you get the other side to pay your attorney fees? Extremely unlikely. One should usually assume that won’t be possible. Can one recover for pain and suffering, emotional distress, punitive damages? Even less likely. One should never assume you’ll recover those unless you also suffered serious verifiable physical injury as a result of the wrongdoing.

Does this mean that legal systems (in Taiwan and elsewhere) truly suck and one can never get relief? Not at all. It just means that hiring a lawyer is a very serious, and costly, endeavor that should only be done in the case of clear-cut wrongdoing and serious verifiable damages. In lesser cases, such as this one, while one may be pissed off at having been wronged, the best course of action is to simply cuss at those assholes, tell your friends to avoid them, and move on with your life. But that’s just my opinion, as a lawyer who has represented plenty of pissed off, frustrated clients.

3

Well, my boyfriend and I contacted the government’s tourism bureau, and filed a complaint. They were extremely apologetic (considering the recent push for tourism in Taiwan) and said that they would handle the situation. We also lodged a complaint with Taiwan’s equivalent of the Better Business Bureau, as well as calling the main customer service line for the Toong Mao company. They also said they would look into it and give us a “satisfactory reply.” Now we’ll just have to wait and see I suppose.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, Mother Theresa. I’ll wait and see if any of these things pan out before going the litigation route.

4

Listen to MT. Don’t even consider litigation… unless you are very wealthy and only want to make a point.

5

Sad but true! Unless you have a contract which specifies that the prevailing party’s costs will be paid in any dispute it is impossible to recover legal costs in Taiwan (except in the most exceptional circumstances).

You could probably find a local lawyer (other than from one of the bigger commercial law firms) who will charge you less than US$200 but it would still be in the region of NT$3500 or NT$4000 per hour.

Anyway, I am going to Kending next weekend and will double check to see that we are not staying there! So your tip-off has had some good effect! :notworthy:

6

In my experience, their definition of a “satisfactory response” will include nothing but twisting and turning to avoid any responsibility. Unfortunately, I suspect that their definition of “satisfactory response” and your definition will be quite divergent.

7

What happened to my post suggesting an official warning letter from the PO? That was proper information given in good faith and according to Ironlady, who has experience in these matters, a vital precursor to any kind of legal recourse. I don’t even see it in the flounder forum. I do hope it hasn’t been deleted, as deleting posts is not an option on these boards.

8

After filing an official complaint with the Tourism Bureau and informing the main office of the Toong Mao hotel chain that we had done so, they called me and said that they would refund my money for the three nights that I stayed at the hotel, a total of about NT$10,000. The woman from Toong Mao who called me seemed quite scared, and called several times to ask that I please withdraw the complaint as soon as the money is wired into my account. So, if anyone has any similar problems with the tourism industry here, I strongly recommend that you file an official complaint with the Tourism Bureau … doing just that made them go from cursing at me on the phone and saying that it was all my fault to them apologizing profusely and refunding all of my money. Go figure …

9

Great result! Seems that someone, at least, is taking the “double the number of tourist arrivals” thing seriously. Good one.

10

Help me out here…why should the complaint be withdrawn? Amended, perhaps, to say that they paid you off (which is what’s going on) but isn’t the purpose to warn others about what is likely a systemic problem they’ve got going on down there??

11

You’re absolutely right, and that’s all I’m going to do, tell them that they compensated me. That doesn’t change the fact that their service sucked, though. I really couldn’t believe my ears when we were talking (yelling, actually) with the people at the hotel. They were cursing at us, lying, changing their stories over and over, and refused to let us speak to their manager … unbelievable. But, I can take comfort in the fact that they’re probably really screwed now for making the company lose NT$10,000. :raspberry:

12

Sorry to all who’ve found their posts deleted. Got a little prune-happy. :slight_smile:

13

Going straight to the Tourism Bureau is definitely the best option is such situations. Their powers have been greatly enhanced in line with the government’s drive to promote the tourism industry. I’ve been translating a pile of new laws and regulations for them, and have been quite surprised at how extensively they’re empowered to jump on hotels, travel enterprises, etc. that mess tourists about and harm Taiwan’s reputation as a tourist destination.

In fact, as I was translating some of it the other day, I was prompted to say to the wife: “Wow, next time we’re at a hotel and have any trouble, we just have to quote one or two of these provisions and I’m sure we’ll have them trembling in their boots and bending over backwards to pacify us.” Carry a set of the key laws and regulations when you go travelling, and you’ll be pretty sure you can’t be wronged.

14

Care to post some of them Omni, or is there a link where we layen can find more information?

15

In due course, I’m sure the English translations will all be put up on the Tourism Bureau’s website.

Both Chinese and English versions of the basic provisions of the Tourism Development Act (發展觀光條例) can already be found on the Web, though I’m still working on almost 200 pages of Appendices to the Act.

The many sets of regulations promulgated pursuant to the Act – e.g., the 觀光旅館業管理規則 (Regulations Governing Tourist Hotel Enterprises), 旅行業管理規則 (Regulations Governing Travel Enterprises), and 觀光遊樂業管理規則 (Regulations Governing Tourist Amusement Enterprises) – are already posted online in Chinese but not in English.

However, I can’t post any of my English translations before they have been okayed and put up by the gummit.

16

Your story sounds like so many I have heard from travellers in China in the 80s and 90s. Hilarious stuff if you look at it in that context, but not so funny when it happens to you personally. Glad you got a result, and that’s useful information.

That call to the bureau must really have put the willies up them if they actually handed you cash. Must have been a hell of a complaint letter you wrote !

17

I’m just dropping by to say I second this posting.

I stayed here on Friday night, and what could have been a perfectly pleasant, normal hotel stay was made difficult and totally bizarre by the hotel staff. When I arrived I provided my print out from the website where I booked the room and my passport, and they asked me to wait. Twenty minutes later they told me they had no booking and said I didn’t have a reference number. I told them it was on the sheet of paper I had given them. They left to find it and while they were gone I looked down at their bookings register where my name was clearly written. I pointed it out and 10 seconds later I had two keys in my hand. We had requested 1 double room, but I was okay with two singles if that is what they were offering. Their English/my Chinese wasn’t good enough for me to question it. I thought they had just made a mistake and were being accommodating?

That evening after coming in from the beach the manager chased me down yelling that I owed him money for getting two singles instead of the double. It tried to explain to him it’s what I was given by his staff but his English/my Chinese wasn’t good enough for me to get the message across. He just kept saying I owed him money. I payed it for fear of being thrown out of the hotel at 10 o’clock at night, but felt like I’d been bait-and-switched. Afterwards the desk staff would point and laugh at my friends and I (“Stupid foreigners!”) whenever we passed them. It was very strange and uncomfortable.

18

jamesara -

You would be doing everyone a big favor by following the procedure for complaint outlined earlier in this thread.

19

HOw can this hotel stay in biz if they are as bad as they are??

20

Tommy: Because they’re in Kenting, and rooms are scarce.

I have a feeling this is the same hotel that once cancelled our reservation so they could take one from a bigger group instead. The wife and I walked down the road and found a room above a shop instead, while my friend’s wife engaged in a long, screaming, hand-waving, photo-taking debacle with them and they ended up having to stay in a village up in the hills. It was all very silly.