[quote=“jimisgek”]Many " Westerners" cannot tell the difference between different Asian races and will in fact group them all together as Chinese or Japanese. If they’re being polite of course.
As an example, in Australia, I’ve had people try to talk to my wife in Mandarin and Japanese.[/quote]
Yeah, well, many Asians can’t tell the difference either. Taiwanese here in Taiwan are constantly asking my Taiwanese wife, Dragonbabe, what country she’s from! :roflmao:
[quote=“bob”][quote=“Rabidpie”] [quote=“bob”]
Btw, the title of this thread was meant to be ironic yes? It certainly captures the heart of the situation.[/quote]
Yes, it is ironic.
[/quote]
It’s not just ironic then, it’s brilliant. 
What, btw again, is a rabidpie? It’s not what I think it is, izit?[/quote]
A rabidpie? Well, it’s whatever you want it to mean 
[quote=“jimisgek”]
Actually, I think this is exactly what happens. Many " Westerners" cannot tell the difference between different Asian races and will in fact group them all together as Chinese or Japanese. If they’re being polite of course.
As an example, in Australia, I’ve had people try to talk to my wife in Mandarin and Japanese. Her parents are from Hong kong so she speaks Cantonese. These people are mostly just using a rare oppurtunity to try out there language skills.[/quote]
I see, well perhaps it does happen more often than I have noticed. In my home state of Colorado though I have never really seen this type of behavior.
[quote=“steelersman”]
I cannot speak for everyone but unless I need that persons service, when they speak English I often reply: 對不起, 我聽不懂你的中文. After that I don’t say anything unless they speak Mandarin to me. I doubt that most people are that stupid that they would reply back to what the person said in English in Chinese.[/quote]
Funny typo! You’d get some very odd looks if it were true 
Of course it’s ridiculous to switch to English for the sake of showing off or whatever.
For a service person opening the exchange in English, I have sympathy. It must be really tiresome for them to have to say what they have to say in Chinese to a white/black/South Asian person when they know damn well that there’s a 99% chance they’ll have to repeat it in English anyway.
I like Dragonbones’s peeve about people starting talking English to each other when they draw near to him. The world is, in fact, a bit like one of my English classes: everyone jabbers away in Mandarin, but when I go up to a group to monitor, they switch to English.
Another funny thing that hasn’t been mentioned. Sometimes, a Taiwanese person will say that they can’t speak Chinese to me because they 不習慣 it. Well, they say they’re not used to it, by which I think they mean 不習慣, which I think actually means they find it embarrassing or inappropriate. Anyone else found this?
lbksig, I hope you find my numbering system well-organized!
They are lying (unless they are your partner/close friend), it’s just to practice English.
I don’t think embarrassment is the correct interpretation. “Not used to it” is exactly the feeling I get when I’m forced to speak a language to someone that I normally would not. For example, I’m speaking Chinese to someone when another non-Chinese speaking person joins in; the conversation switches over to English. However, it just feels weird whenver I address the Chinese speaker in English. Swap the languages in my example and the same weird feeling still applies.
There’s a certain dissonance between the visual and the verbal when this situation occurs. Not that this should necessarily excuse certain behaviours, but the 不習慣ness of it all is understandable.
I don’t think embarrassment is the correct interpretation. “Not used to it” is exactly the feeling I get when I’m forced to speak a language to someone that I normally would not. For example, I’m speaking Chinese to someone when another non-Chinese speaking person joins in; the conversation switches over to English. However, it just feels weird whenver I address the Chinese speaker in English. Swap the languages in my example and the same weird feeling still applies.
There’s a certain dissonance between the visual and the verbal when this situation occurs. Not that this should necessarily excuse certain behaviours, but the 不習慣ness of it all is understandable.[/quote]
Sorry I didn’t make the point correctly, so you missed it.
Some TW people are uncomfortable speaking Chinese to a white person, even one who speaks Chinese well. They are “not used to” speaking Chinese to white people. “When one addresses white people, one does so in English; using Chinese feels wrong,” they mean.
See what I mean now?
I feel the same way when I speak English to Chinese people. It lasts for awhile, even if I know they don’t speak a word of Chinese.
I can see how speaking in a different language to an individual would feel strange at first. A while ago a Taiwanese friend of mine and I decided to switch from Mandarin to Minnanyu (Taiwanese), and it did feel a bit strange, but that probably has to do that my Taiwanese, poor as it is, was still better than his . He gave up after just a day.
People always understand a lot more than they produce. Most people don’t realise this. They here your toneless, bad Chinese and assume you don’t know much, whereas their passive English ability is higher, although they produce English that sounds like crap to you, and you think your Chinese is better than their English.
The better you get and the less ass your opening sentence sounds, the less likely they are to bother with English. People are pragmatic.
[quote=“Buttercup”]People always understand a lot more than they produce. Most people don’t realise this. They here your toneless, bad Chinese and assume you don’t know much, whereas their passive English ability is higher, although they produce English that sounds like crap to you, and you think your Chinese is better than their English.
The better you get and the less ass your opening sentence sounds, the less likely they are to bother with English. People are pragmatic.[/quote]
Maybe. But I think it’s how I look. No-one ever tries to impose English on me on the phone.
And some people are saying it’s the opening gambit in English (in Starbucks etc) that annoys them, aren’t they? The bit that comes before you open your mouth.
[quote=“Buttercup”]People always understand a lot more than they produce. Most people don’t realise this. They here your toneless, bad Chinese and assume you don’t know much, whereas their passive English ability is higher, although they produce English that sounds like crap to you, and you think your Chinese is better than their English.
The better you get and the less ass your opening sentence sounds, the less likely they are to bother with English. People are pragmatic.[/quote]
Not me. My biggest problem in Chinese is listening comprehension, I can say (maybe not with the best pronunciation, tones, etc, but people understand me) more than I can understand. Often I do know the words they’re using, but people talk so fast, and by the time I figure out which shi or guo, etc they meant, I’m totally lost. The homophones really kill me. Especially with the Taiwanese accent.
When I need to communicate with people with not so good English and it’s pretty important we understand each other, I sometimes find the easiest is for me to use Chinese and them to use English. That way we are both guaranteed to be familiar with every word used in the conversation. Doesn’t teach you much, but sometimes you don’t have time for that.
I find that the vast majority of people here open in Chinese with me. Even at Starbucks I’ll get Chinese, and I look very waiguo and have crap Chinese. The only people I can think of that always start in English are at the bank. Or maybe it happens more often and I’m just not noticing…
Well that is why I would say that in most cases make sure you speak first. Then you will reduce the amount of people who speak English to you. Of course a few people will continue to speak English to you but it will definitly lower the amount of people who speak English.
That was not a typo. I want to make it complete clear to the person that I don’t know what they are saying. If I really don’t want to speak English with them I will give no indication that I understand what they are saying. Not to mention that about half of the people who try to speak English to me often sound like they are speaking Chinese anyways.
[quote=“smithsgj”][quote=“sjcma”]I don’t think embarrassment is the correct interpretation. “Not used to it” is exactly the feeling I get when I’m forced to speak a language to someone that I normally would not. For example, I’m speaking Chinese to someone when another non-Chinese speaking person joins in; the conversation switches over to English. However, it just feels weird whenver I address the Chinese speaker in English. Swap the languages in my example and the same weird feeling still applies.
There’s a certain dissonance between the visual and the verbal when this situation occurs. Not that this should necessarily excuse certain behaviours, but the 不習慣ness of it all is understandable.[/quote]
Sorry I didn’t make the point correctly, so you missed it.
Some TW people are uncomfortable speaking Chinese to a white person, even one who speaks Chinese well. They are “not used to” speaking Chinese to white people. “When one addresses white people, one does so in English; using Chinese feels wrong,” they mean.
See what I mean now?[/quote]
I think it’s just an extension of my example. For some, white face + Chinese => dissonance => 不習慣. For some others, I’m sure they just want to practice their English.
Here’s the case with my laopo:
When she is in Japan, locals speak to her in Japanese.
When she is in Korea, locals speak to her in Korean.
When she is in Hong Kong, locals speak to her in Cantonese.
When she is in Thailand, locals speak to her in Thai.
[quote=“jimisgek”]
Actually, I think this is exactly what happens. Many " Westerners" cannot tell the difference between different Asian races and will in fact group them all together as Chinese or Japanese. If they’re being polite of course.
As an example, in Australia, I’ve had people try to talk to my wife in Mandarin and Japanese. Her parents are from Hong kong so she speaks Cantonese. These people are mostly just using a rare oppurtunity to try out there language skills.[/quote]
[quote=“Rabidpie”]
I see, well perhaps it does happen more often than I have noticed. In my home state of Colorado though I have never really seen this type of behavior.[/quote]
Why would you? Assuming you are white, unless you hang out with non Caucasian looking people you will not experience it. Until you go to a country ( like Taiwan) where YOU are the minority. People often comment on how good my wife’s English is even though she grew up in Australia and is a high school English teacher. Her English is a damn site better than mine but, it’s the visual perception.
People in Taiwan just will not believe that she does not speak Mandarin and I do. They will even look at her
while the words are coming out of my mouth.
Sometimes I feel like a ventriloquist!
I think part of the problem for foreigners in Taiwan or any country is coming to terms with the fact that most people don’t give a #### about foreigners. We can find ignorance about foreigners in Taiwan as well as in our home countries. Foreigners both in English speaking countries and Taiwan are often lumped into groups. The average working Joe does not really care if X forienger is from American, Canada, Estonia, South Africa, Ukraine, etc.
[quote=“steelersman”]
I cannot speak for everyone but unless I need that persons service, when they speak English I often reply: 對不起, 我聽不懂你的中文. After that I don’t say anything unless they speak Mandarin to me. I doubt that most people are that stupid that they would reply back to what the person said in English in Chinese.[/quote]
You mean 英文 not 中文, I think. I call that a typo. Whatever.
[quote=“smithsgj”][quote=“steelersman”]
I cannot speak for everyone but unless I need that persons service, when they speak English I often reply: 對不起, 我聽不懂你的中文. After that I don’t say anything unless they speak Mandarin to me. I doubt that most people are that stupid that they would reply back to what the person said in English in Chinese.[/quote]
You mean 英文 not 中文, I think. I call that a typo. Whatever.[/quote]
Sorry sorry mea culpa. 
You actually pretend when they speak English that you thought they were speaking Chinese, now I see it.
Does the tactic work, though? Are they led to think that their English is so bad that it’s unrecognizable as such, and that therefore you assume they are speaking their native language in a very fast and colloquial way?
Or are they just left having no idea what you’re on about?
[quote]
You actually pretend when they speak English that you thought they were speaking Chinese, now I see it.[/quote]
It’s ok. Better than telling them I don’t understand their English. That comes off as rude and shows that I know that they are speaking English.