What am I doing wrong here?

So I’ve never had a problem getting dates in the States, or really in any country i’ve been in, but I’m really running into a brick wall in Taiwan, I can’t understand what the issue is, any insights would be useful.

I go to a University, so there are lots of cute girls around so meeting them is no problem. But over and over and over, after having a nice chat, getting to know one, I’ll ask if they want to get coffee, they usually say “sure!” and offer to give me their LINE info. I even ask about their schedule and we agree on a day. But, when the day comes, they just ignore the LINE.

I mean, sure, this happens SOMETIMES anywhere, but this has happened to me like…at least 20 times now. This has never happened to me before. Is there some cultural procedure for dating I’m not following or what? Any guesses?

[quote=“strider”]So I’ve never had a problem getting dates in the States, or really in any country I’ve been in, but I’m really running into a brick wall in Taiwan, I can’t understand what the issue is, any insights would be useful.

I go to a University, so there are lots of cute girls around so meeting them is no problem. But over and over and over, after having a nice chat, getting to know one, I’ll ask if they want to get coffee, they usually say “sure!” and offer to give me their LINE info. I even ask about their schedule and we agree on a day. But, when the day comes, they just ignore the LINE.

I mean, sure, this happens SOMETIMES anywhere, but this has happened to me like…at least 20 times now. This has never happened to me before. Is there some cultural procedure for dating I’m not following or what? Any guesses?[/quote]

It seems they’ve been told by their friends that you’re just after one thing… And their parents probably object to the idea of their daughter dating a foreigner.

What? Maybe in the deepest woods of some Evangelical hideout in Taoyuan or Chiayi. But seriously @ OP: fix a date, time and place. Take the lead and be specific. Otherwise it’s not actually a fixed meeting.

Lean back a bit. In my experience Taiwanese women are pretty direct about what they want but indirect about saying no. Let them be the first to suggest getting together before asking them out. :2cents:

I suspect that the word is out: you’re just going after everyone in a serial manner.

Plus what naijeru said. Stay positive, but perhaps back off a bit. Are there group events where people share similar interests? If so, that would be less intimidating than a one-on-one coffee date. :2cents:

Guy

You’ve probably just run into a cold streak (or have a unique “flaw” that only affects Taiwanese women.)

The majority of Taiwanese women don’t “want” to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :slight_smile: You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

This might be a factor. It’s not racism as such. It’s just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You’ll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically “into” foreigners or are open to the idea.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :slight_smile: You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

This might be a factor. It’s not racism as such. It’s just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You’ll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically “into” foreigners or are open to the idea.[/quote]

This.

The less interest you show in pursuing women, the more attractive you become. And it doesn’t work the other way around. I don’t know why.

Now, you’re dealing with Taiwanese women, who, by and large, though not exactly an exotic species, are inherently unique nonetheless.

I’m glad you brought this up because I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently, though my train of thought has little to do with Taiwan. I’ve been thinking about cross-cultural relationships in general.

First of all, let’s draw a line in the sand. How old are you? You’re dealing with university-aged females. At 20, the average North American (both men and women) has pretty much run the gauntlet of what’s out there in the world. They’ve been around the block, however small and uninspiring. I’m not saying they are “smart” or “mature” by any stretch of imagination. I’m just saying they don’t need Urban Dictionary to explain what FDAU means. And if you ask them out, they’ll give you a yes or a no.

Every now and then in the dating game, you run into a game-player who gives you the business, but more often than not, a Western girl lays her cards on the table when you make the call. That’s why it’s so easy to get laid back home. I know all you wise-crakcers say that we single white male expats came to Taiwan because “we couldn’t get laid at home”, and I’m here to tell you (A) Fuck off, and (B) If I couldn’t get laid at home, the last goddamn place I’d go is Taiwan. Have you ever looked at a map? Do you see Thailand and the Philippines, and hell, even China? Sex is falling from the trees in those places.

It doesn’t work that way here. Unless you want to go the pay-for-play route, and let the buyer beware. Taiwan is incredibly pricey for average merchandise and poor customer service.

The average 20-year-old Taiwanese university girl still lives with her parents, has never had a job, might have had sex with a boyfriend, and despite having done a bit of overseas traveling, is overwhelmingly clueless about the world at large. It ain’t their fault, that’s just the way it is. But many are absolutely horrified and intrigued by the idea of getting involved with a foreigner. What they know about foreign men they’ve learned in Hollywood movies. For a lot of them, they are hoping at best for a Ryan Gosling, but there’s nothing but Woody Harrelsons running around.

Other posters have made relevant points in this area. For a Taiwanese woman, dating/mating/marrying a foreigner is akin to getting a tattoo. You’re marked for life. In the words of my boss, any woman who sleeps with a foreigner is “spoiled” and “tainted” and no Chinese man would have them from that point forward. And it goes even deeper into family, tradition, and culture. [Notice that my boss used the term “Chinese” to describe local men. He, like so many people, first and foremost, identifies as Chinese.]

You didn’t ask but I’ll tell you anyway. I dated Taiwanese women exclusively for the first two of my eight years here, and then I asked myself, “Why?” That’s all it took. And I dated women ages 20 to 40. While there were a few exceptions, most of them were intelligent, capable, curious, daring, and engaged in the world at large. That’s basically what it takes to make the jump from dating local dudes. However, I find Taiwanese culture as whole to be incredibly superficial, vapid, and banal. I’m not equivocating the two here. I’m just saying that we are all products of our particular culture(s).

Let’s ask some of our expat women in Taiwan about their experiences dating local men. How’s that working out for them?

So ask yourself, other than getting laid, why would you want to date Taiwanese women? Or in your case, Taiwanese girls, cuz that’s what they are.

Flame away, kids, but here’s my estimation. And I’d like to point out that as an expat married to a S.E. Asian woman, I have a charter plane full of acquaintances who will tell you the exact same thing. Generally speaking, except in cases of extraordinary aberration, a Taiwanese woman at 21 is on a mental and emotional par with a 12-year-old Western girl. This is because they incredibly sheltered and not availed many of the experiences Western women are by now, inured to. Sure, some local girls are serious players - but only on their home turf. They honestly can’t hang with a 30-year-old dude from Southern California or wherever. And I’d say the 21-to-12 ratio/trend continues up until the age of 28 or so. By the time they reach 30, they kind of get the game, but by no means ready to go pro.

The older I get, the more I realize that motivation is everything. What do you have to offer another human being, and just as importantly, vice versa? I mean, you’re here, and they’re here, so it makes it your time together, but vegetarians don’t start eating steak just because they move to Texas. At least, not the ones committed to being vegetarian. What do you think you are going to get out of dating university girls? Answer that question and you may find a path to the root of your problem.

What happened to the LIKE button? I think 21/12 is a bit of a stretch. In my experience it’s about a 4 or 5 year gap.

Yeah, I was wondering about that :slight_smile: You need to expand your social circle somehow; or at least wait for the women to show interest first.

This might be a factor. It’s not racism as such. It’s just that people have their preferences, and dating a person from your own culture is comfortable and familiar.

Definitely worth trying online dating. You’ll waste an awful lot of time on bullshit (fake profiles, profiles that have been abandoned, etc) but there are some interesting people out there who are either specifically “into” foreigners or are open to the idea.[/quote]

This.

The less interest you show in pursuing women, the more attractive you become. And it doesn’t work the other way around. I don’t know why.

Now, you’re dealing with Taiwanese women, who, by and large, though not exactly an exotic species, are inherently unique nonetheless.

I’m glad you brought this up because I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently, though my train of thought has little to do with Taiwan. I’ve been thinking about cross-cultural relationships in general.

First of all, let’s draw a line in the sand. How old are you? You’re dealing with university-aged females. At 20, the average North American (both men and women) has pretty much run the gauntlet of what’s out there in the world. They’ve been around the block, however small and uninspiring. I’m not saying they are “smart” or “mature” by any stretch of imagination. I’m just saying they don’t need Urban Dictionary to explain what FDAU means. And if you ask them out, they’ll give you a yes or a no.

Every now and then in the dating game, you run into a game-player who gives you the business, but more often than not, a Western girl lays her cards on the table when you make the call. That’s why it’s so easy to get laid back home. I know all you wise-crakcers say that we single white male expats came to Taiwan because “we couldn’t get laid at home”, and I’m here to tell you (A) Fuck off, and (B) If I couldn’t get laid at home, the last goddamn place I’d go is Taiwan. Have you ever looked at a map? Do you see Thailand and the Philippines, and hell, even China? Sex is falling from the trees in those places.

It doesn’t work that way here. Unless you want to go the pay-for-play route, and let the buyer beware. Taiwan is incredibly pricey for average merchandise and poor customer service.

The average 20-year-old Taiwanese university girl still lives with her parents, has never had a job, might have had sex with a boyfriend, and despite having done a bit of overseas traveling, is overwhelmingly clueless about the world at large. It ain’t their fault, that’s just the way it is. But many are absolutely horrified and intrigued by the idea of getting involved with a foreigner. What they know about foreign men they’ve learned in Hollywood movies. For a lot of them, they are hoping at best for a Ryan Gosling, but there’s nothing but Woody Harrelsons running around.

Other posters have made relevant points in this area. For a Taiwanese woman, dating/mating/marrying a foreigner is akin to getting a tattoo. You’re marked for life. In the words of my boss, any woman who sleeps with a foreigner is “spoiled” and “tainted” and no Chinese man would have them from that point forward. And it goes even deeper into family, tradition, and culture. [Notice that my boss used the term “Chinese” to describe local men. He, like so many people, first and foremost, identifies as Chinese.]

You didn’t ask but I’ll tell you anyway. I dated Taiwanese women exclusively for the first two of my eight years here, and then I asked myself, “Why?” That’s all it took. And I dated women ages 20 to 40. While there were a few exceptions, most of them were intelligent, capable, curious, daring, and engaged in the world at large. That’s basically what it takes to make the jump from dating local dudes. However, I find Taiwanese culture as whole to be incredibly superficial, vapid, and banal. I’m not equivocating the two here. I’m just saying that we are all products of our particular culture(s).

Let’s ask some of our expat women in Taiwan about their experiences dating local men. How’s that working out for them?

So ask yourself, other than getting laid, why would you want to date Taiwanese women? Or in your case, Taiwanese girls, cuz that’s what they are.

Flame away, kids, but here’s my estimation. And I’d like to point out that as an expat married to a S.E. Asian woman, I have a charter plane full of acquaintances who will tell you the exact same thing. Generally speaking, except in cases of extraordinary aberration, a Taiwanese woman at 21 is on a mental and emotional par with a 12-year-old Western girl. This is because they incredibly sheltered and not availed many of the experiences Western women are by now, inured to. Sure, some local girls are serious players - but only on their home turf. They honestly can’t hang with a 30-year-old dude from Southern California or wherever. And I’d say the 21-to-12 ratio/trend continues up until the age of 28 or so. By the time they reach 30, they kind of get the game, but by no means ready to go pro.

The older I get, the more I realize that motivation is everything. What do you have to offer another human being, and just as importantly, vice versa? I mean, you’re here, and they’re here, so it makes it your time together, but vegetarians don’t start eating steak just because they move to Texas. At least, not the ones committed to being vegetarian. What do you think you are going to get out of dating university girls? Answer that question and you may find a path to the root of your problem.[/quote]

wow…likely the soundest advice I have read in this forum. I want the like button back. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

hard to say as you didn’t give too much details. care to write a little more about what you are doing to end up with this result?

imo most taiwanese girls are suspicious of foreigners. they think we are all are players, the propaganda against us has worked i would say. from your post it seems like you are being quite forward. i would say be less forward, just act like a friend(but not a friend zone type friend) not like a guy on the hunt, and take time to get to know them. after a while u can ask them out or they ask you out or whatever… or you can just use okcupid and find someone who has lived overseas and had several foriegn bfs so they already know the western dating style. but if you want to date a typical taiwanese girl you really need to take a more gentle laid back approach.

[quote=“best_intentions”]You’ve probably just run into a cold streak (or have a unique “flaw” that only affects Taiwanese women.)

The majority of Taiwanese women don’t “want” to date a foreigner, but there is a huge pool of women out there that do. Okcupid will get you tons of dates (and perhaps even love) and most are very open or exclusively want to find a foreigner.[/quote]

If what you said is true please explain how any white guy could get a girlfriend or lay in Taiwan then if Taiwanese women don’t like white guys.

Because there is a huge pool of women out there that do? Just a guess.

Yes, thank you! I think he might need to re-read what I wrote :slight_smile:

There are sooooo many women here in Taiwan that are looking for foreigners. If they are on Western based dating sites like okcupid— USUALLY they are looking for white guys and most have dated white guys before either in Taiwan or studying/working in the USA/Australia/UK. Sometimes a language exchange will also work, but remember most are looking for actual language exchange and not a date so don’t go into it in a “player” mode expecting something. It’s just like any situation-- if you and a girl hang out long enough and there is chemistry it won’t matter if she has not dated a white guy before. However, your best bet is to date women who are attracted to the western lifestyle and have the experience with foreigners. I wouldn’t swim “upstream” here in Taiwan going after girls who have never dated a white guy before unless you like the hunt and the time and work that would go into it.

On a side note, cultural and religious differences have been obstacles to dating everywhere. Parental/societal pressures are a factor in every country both “western” or asian. Taiwan is no different.

[quote=“RickRooney”]hard to say as you didn’t give too much details. care to write a little more about what you are doing to end up with this result?

imo most taiwanese girls are suspicious of foreigners. they think we are all are players, the propaganda against us has worked I would say. from your post it seems like you are being quite forward. I would say be less forward, just act like a friend(but not a friend zone type friend) not like a guy on the hunt, and take time to get to know them. after a while u can ask them out or they ask you out or whatever… or you can just use okcupid and find someone who has lived overseas and had several foreign bfs so they already know the western dating style. but if you want to date a typical taiwanese girl you really need to take a more gentle laid back approach.[/quote]

Depends how old they are as others have mentioned. I think times have changed a lot in Taiwan and ‘the dating game’ is a lot more difficult these days. People in general have got more uptight in talking to others (semi strangers) directly. And yes they are afraid of being judged in fromt of their peers…unfortunately.

Well, firstly, to those who instantly judged me and my motivations, without needing a shred of knowledge to do so, please bugger off.

I’m a single guy, asking girls for dates. What do I expect? I expect… to…wait for it… date. I’m pretty sure, dating is generally accepted the world around as a healthy and normal thing to do. I feel sorry for whatever twisted psychological deformities are responsible for people who, presumably after dating and marrying someone and having children, think the best thing for their daughter would be to stop her from dating, yikes. Most people desire partners in this life, and I’m pretty sure most of the people that found them, took them on a date at least once. There are exceptions to this, but…well most of those places I’m really glad I wasn’t born in.

As for the foolish advice that showing no interest will get you dates…yeah, ok, sure. I’ll just go sit down in front of 7-11 and wait for the Xiao-jie’s to bombard me with offers, that’ll definitely happen. Taiwanese girls approach guys for dates ALL the time.

As for the long and admirably insightful post above, I can’t say I disagree with you much. But, I am in Taiwan, and I’m going to school. And I’m not aspiring towards Buddha-hood so, that’s why I’d like to date Taiwanese college girls. I rather firmly believe in accepting and embracing the world I find myself in, for better or for worse.

So, now that that’s all out of the way…

The only advice I can find, really, is to “back off a bit” and, possibly allow the girl to make the suggestion? I would have to ask, is that actually your own experience, that you’ve met a girl, waited it out, and she asked you out, here in Taiwan? Can anyone else confirm this? Cuz I’ve pretty much never heard of that happening. I mean, sure girls throw themselves at me from time to time, but, well, they aren’t the girls I’d like to date : p

Also let’s recap, I said I’ve asked out 20 girls in the last 6 months. That’s… less than one girl a week, and there are repeated calls of “serial”? Your social lives must be really nonexistent.

The point is, you meet someone, you have a nice conversation, realize you kind of click in a special way the other 50 people you met this week don’t, and you realize you’d like to know them better. So you ask them to hang out another time. Really nothing more natural than that in my mind.

But I have noticed that things seem a lot more “serious” here. I mean, a friend of mine wouldn’t let me give her a ride home because she said riding on the back of a guy’s scooter has “implications”. And I’ve known her for quite a while, I don’t think there’s any question in either of our minds that I have no sexual intentions towards her whatsoever. But it was VERY inconvenient for her at that time to take a bus and a train, and there was nothing I could do to convince her.

I’m not hearing much advice from anyone that has successfully gone about dating here, preferably in this age group. That would really be a lot more useful than the random uninformed judgments and armchair hypotheses…

Here’s something else to remember: the college system here is not the same as the one in the US. Students are admitted to a department, as part of a cohort, and they are with the same (often small) group for four years! If you’re asking out students in the same department–and remember, as you might expect, these students talk to each other–this is basically equivalent to asking out numerous people in a workplace. Ask around to see if that’s a good idea. :smiley:

Best of luck figuring this out.

Guy

You simply need to go back and look at your last post to see why you’re not getting any, dude. :2cents:

Be introspective. :thumbsup:

Guy

[quote=“jimipresley”]You simply need to go back and look at your last post to see why you’re not getting any, dude. :2cents:

Be introspective. :thumbsup:[/quote]

Guy

I’m starting to get a little better picture of where you’re coming from, but that advice ain’t foolish at all, brother. Re-read it. The less interest you show…etc. Shit has worked for me and countless others. To paraphrase one of my all-time favorite characters from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Mike Damone, “The correct attitude is that you don’t care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. Whatever happens, your toes are still tappin’.”

And before you say anything about the unreality of Hollywood movies, this dating shit is a game. Period. And in the game, women tend to shy away from desperation and neediness. Particularly in Taiwan, if you’re out there prowling the waters like a shark, chicks will stay onshore. They won’t get in the water.

What this advice implies - and I’m ever-so-slightly irritated to explain it - is you should go out and live your life according to your wishes, and trying to score dates should be the last thing on your mind, cuz if it’s on your mind, it’s going to translate to your body language, and your approach to women. If every time you meet a girl your first thought is, “I should ask her out”, that, my friend, is foolish.

Also, dating from the university population is a little bit like shitting where you eat. Not quite as fraught with peril as dating someone at work - which people do all the time - but then…

I know women who won’t share an elevator with a foreign dude - because of the implications. I have a very good female (occasional drinking buddy) friend in this building who will not enter or exit the building with me, lest she be seen by the security guards, or worse, a neighbor, in the company of The Foreigner. She says (and I believe her) if anybody does see us together, that surely implies we are banging (which we are not, and never have). And people gossip like fucking jackals in this joint.

Think about what happens when a university girl starts dating a foreigner on campus. Everybody and their fucking grandmother is talking about it, and worse, judging.

You haven’t divulged your age.

Here’s what I’m thinking is a fairly decent approach. First, do not limit your choices to university girls. Of all the Taiwanese women I ever dated, my absolute favorite was a cashier at Wellcome. She was fun, smart, cool, and didn’t give a fuck who knew she was getting down with the bignose.

Second, go on about your life. Go to the gym, go to the park, join an athletic club, attend social events, go to the mall. You’re right; sitting outside of a 7-11 with a tallboy is really for married guys like me. But you never know…

Here’s the thing. Women are intrinsically attracted to guys who look like they have something happening in their lives. Like the last thing you need to muck things up is a girlfriend. They gravitate towards those dudes - they have an almost primal need to get in there and FUCK THAT SHIT UP. A straight dude who isn’t on the prowl is anathema to attractive women. It can’t stand. They gotta get in there and find out Why? One of my best friends married a girl he met at an MMA match in which (IIRC) he got his ass handed to him. The last fucking thing on his mind that day was hooking up with a lady. He was too busy trying to find his feet.

However old you are, I was your age at one time. And I’ve been there. There, in university at an advanced age. I went back to college to finish a degree at age 30. In the U.S. In California. In San Francisco. Now, how laid do you think I got during that two-year period? Very laid. And the thing is, I never tried. Not once. But I’m not terribly good-looking or built like a water polo player. I just went about my business and when I bumped into someone who liked me, I let the bumping continue as long as it was beneficial for both of us.