What do you believe?

I believe:

Takes numerous people to make one believe, but only takes one person to ruin everything one believes in.
Children’s innocence is most precious in life. Don’t ruin it.
Us humans are parasites, therefore we must expand to outer space, or we’re gonna ruin Earth.
Take a few seconds to observe and appreciate the little things in life, or else you’ll ruin the meaning of life.
Show you care and love the people around you, or else you’ll ruin/cheapen the 3 little words people say.
God(s) doesn’t/don’t ruin the beliefs, but we can if we don’t have strong will.

Short answer: We are caterpillars and “the universe” or “All there is”, or “God” is like the butterfly.

Long answer with explanations:
I believe that all there is is all there is and that the universe is mathematical (Godel may be right in proving that we cannot prove that but we don’t actually have to prove it) and, thus, our individual being, although forever dissipated once we rot or burn, nevertheless remains as part of the universal computer memory. No, I don’t believe that there is anyone reading the memory’s contents on the screen; I just believe that the universe is an existential unit and that we are among its infinitesimal manifestations which can be stored and retrieved. We, by virtue of being small manifestations of the universe (like little sprouts or grass blades on a field or waves in an ocean or whatever such time-honoured analogy from the ancients) are bigger than … ourselves just as if the individual cell of my fingers could “see” me, the total organism, as bigger than it and as if it could identify with me. So, once we are free from spatial/temporal constraints, we (now it gets difficult because language cannot describe non-spatial/non-temporal propositions) are no longer individual entities (therefore no afterlife for “you” or “me” under the kind fatherly smile of “God”) but we are “reabsorbed” into all there is, but with the ability to “remember” or “retrieve information about” our individual manifestations here in space-time.

Ok, in simple terms, I believe that the universe is all there is, BUT … there is a lot of stuff in “all there is” that we humans are simply not equipped to perceive or understand – notice, there is no need to be consigning such “stuff” to such arbitrarily established classifications as “supernatural,” “metaphysics,” “heaven,” etc.

Time and space are themselves a part of the universe and, therefore, not the whole or even the definitive element thereof (hence our inability to conceive any “answer” remotely accurate or relevant to the task of explaining existence – existence includes a lot of non-spatial and non-temporal … “stuff”).

This does not necessarily mean that the universe is its own God – the term God is meaningless anyway (it only means IN PRACTICALITY “the big brother who can bail me out of whatever bothers/threatens me,” no matter what the purported creeds ).

Now, what does all this mean for us humans or, more importantly, for ME? (“screw everyone else” is the honest but most often non-admitted attitude): It means some good news and some bad news.

  1. Bad news: It does not matter what this means to us or to me or whatever. Truth or fact is independent of how we feel about it.

  2. Good news: It doesn’t, however, have to be bad news. No, (it’s true) we cannot go on living in an after life, and no, there is no “God” BUT… that’s only because “afterlife” and “God” are nonsensical terms, when you try to define them, like “ugah-chahkah” or like Chomsky’s “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.” The ultimate “reason” (itself a teleological and therefore a space-time concept which is thus inadequate in explaining existence and its non-spatial, non-temporal aspects) or “ground” or “proposition” (a more mathematical and less linguistically-constrained term) for MY existence in this life may well be “rememberance” or “reenactment” or “data-retrievae” or “a sub category of mathematical propositions” (crudely speaking, a place, a use, a job, a purpose in the afterlife) for even the tiniest, most insignificant part of this universe. If all there is is all there is, then even microbes, humans, and solar systems (not sufficiently different in terms of size and significance in comparison to even something as small as clusters of galaxies, let alone…ALLTHERE IS) still remain parts of all there is. It’s not like they get lost because they are too small and the place is too big for a person to look for them. The needle is lost only to us in a haystack. But the haystack knows (uh… ok, anyway…)

Now, of course, we do not continue living as…souls or resurrected saints or astral bodies in some “after life” but we are recorded for ever in the universe’s memory. In a sense, we rejoin “all there is” and, we can be recalled to memory by “all there is” if it is “desirable” or “necessary.”

The caterpillar cannot fathom concepts like “flight” or “air” – they are existentially and qualitatively inaccessible to it. When it becomes a butterfly, it may still wish to go down on ground level and crawl for old times’ sake, but its new existence as butterfly, and its new tasks and realities, are more interesting and important to it. But this is something the caterpillar, before tasting “butterfly existence/reality” can neither conceive nor be persuaded of. We humans are the same when it comes to being unable to accept that we are temporary and that there is no continuation to our individual existence. If we could “see” what “All There Is” “sees” (or, “what God knows”), then we would be as relaxed about the death of our caterpillar-like existence as the butterfly is or should be, were it actually prone to, or capable of, such existential musings in the first place.

Now, on to the next question: Ask me what I’'ve been smoking :slight_smile:

So what HAVE you been smoking–Brian McLaren or George Zizoulos?

Ha ha ha. Exactly! Ok, seriously though, all I wrote above are 100% genuine, albeit simplified, positions of mine, given my general agnostic predisposition.

But no, I only like Zizioulas’s Orthodoxy and McLaren’s…whatever-he-claims-it-to -be insofar as I can criticize them. I am more of a Meister_Eckhart man. :sunglasses:

Generally liberal Christian, more or less unable to find my flock in Taiwan. In every way I resemble the average PNW, California, East Coast liberal types who subscribe to “God” and “I Fucking Love Science” and “A Mighty Girl”, except most of them seem to be unaffiliated, non-religious, “secular humanist”, agnostic or atheist and I’m not. Socially I am very liberal and do not at all believe in a gay-hating or sexist God!

Christian because it’s the culture I grew up in, so if I’m going to believe there’s a God, why not do it through my own cultural lens? But I don’t necessarily believe the “aesthetics” are right - clouds and angels and a God who looks like an old man and a Satan with a pitchfork and red horns etc… Nobody really knows, could look like anything or nothing at all. I don’t think it matters!! Maybe God looks like Buddha or Ishtar. That’d be cool. Not Christian like “the Bible is totally right and everyone else is wrong”, although I do believe Jesus was a prophet from Heaven. Perhaps the Resurrection was a metaphor, but the rest of it I believe.

A lot of people wouldn’t think I am Christian - the fundies and the Bible-thumpers. They’d probably accuse me of being weak-kneed. In Taiwan all I seem to find are conservative Christians even among Taiwanese congregations. But from my side, I feel that the fundies and the LGBT-hating conservative Christians who think women belong in the home tending to their man are the ones who make us all look bad.

We’re not all like that, I swear! :sunglasses:

Hi i’m new here,nice to meet you!
I believe in God too,and i think that God is the source of Man’s life and God Is Sovereign over the destiny of all mankind!

I’m a Catholic in the Henry VIIIth sense of the word (Not actually as silly or paradoxical as it sounds).

Non-denominational Christian. Regarded by fellow Christians as theologically very liberal (it’s always relative). Don’t believe in a spiritual heaven, Satan or demons as actual persons, no mind-body dualism. Agnostic on Trinity and Incarnation. Jesus as the Son and the Way. Very close to Fortigurn’s position and we’ve discussed it at length. Considering identifying as Christadelphian if I solidify my rejection of the Trinity.

As the first of my professions involved trying my best to kill people and the second involved trying to delay their departure from this earth, I guess I’ve seen slightly more of death and dying than the average joe.

I have no idea what comfort people find in religious beliefs during their lifetime, but I’m pretty damn certain that those who had some sort of belief in a god, or spirit, or crystal entity or whatever, faced death a damn sight easier than those who don’t.

I could expand upon that by telling you of two different deaths. I did write about them here but then deleted the lines as I felt it disrespectful to the memory of both individuals. I just know that I felt a great deal happier holding the hand of the soul who faced death with a firm conviction that there was a god than I did holding the hand of the atheist.

YMMV.

I believe religion is a social construct created to help people cope with things beyond their comprehension and keep them in line to service the community.

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I don’t believe in religion as anything more than a political system, like any government system…designed to control the masses. Religion is for people who are afraid of going to “hell”. I do believe in Spirituality. Something no man can instruct you on. It’s your own personal journey. It’s for people who have been through hell and realize there’s more to life than what they’ve experienced. As far as a “hell” in the afterlife, I don’t believe it’s a place of punishment. I think it’s misunderstood. I think it’s a place for those whose greatest, deepest loves are hellish loves (like themselves, or power, or deep hate and falsities). They wouldn’t find joy in “heaven” where people’s greatest loves are other people and truths. So “hell” as in “heaven” would be where we put ourselves where we can be the happiest in the spiritual world. To be in hell (because that is your deepest love, would be terrible bc you would be with other like minded spirits–so of course there would be “gnashing of teeth”. But the “punishment” is only from the evil loves themselves that they inflict upon themselves and others bc they are nothing but hellish loves. And the very opposite for heavenly loves. No, i do not believe God “punishes”. He IS love. So not matter those who turned from him, he will show as much mercy as his Love, and that is to allow them to be where they are most comfortable.

Oh, and I do call myself a Christian. But not in the sense of what most people think. In fact most Christians argue with me or tell me I’m going to hell. My spirituality has grown well beyond that. I don’t know what to call my spirituality. I believe in Jesus and God, but I believe the bible is much misinterpreted and taken way too literally when it should be spiritually. Swedenborgian Christian, I guess.

I believe there is no way to know deeper truths through logic and, since other human facets have historically proven unreliable, despite zealots consistently staunchly advocating their legitimacy, though it is a beneficial exercise for developing our philosophical and intellectual capabilities, it is therefore prudent to remember religious contemplation and discussion never bring a definitive answer.

Some interesting thoughts.

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Because humans are built to ask that question.

My father converted to Mormonism when he was at 政大 after taking English lessons from the missionaries. I was raised Mormon and am still practicing.

I think it’s interesting how you said that humans are “built” to always ask why.

When I was studying astrophysics, I found it interesting how astronomers often invoke what’s called the “anthropic principle,” which basically capitalizes on the fact that humans always look to the stars to try to explain where we come from.

There will always be another “why” behind the next “why.” I agree that it’s part of our nature. And I think that this points to the fact that we were created by a superior being. We’re programmed to look into the heavens and try to discover where we come from… and this is intentional… so that we will seek to reconnect with our creator.

But the natural question is… if we were created to have a relationship with our creator, why doesn’t this creator make himself more evident?

We live in a beautiful world… but it’s pretty evident that something has gone wrong. Sometimes I look at the world around me and have a hard time believing that such beauty and such evil can coexist in a single world. Every day, parents sacrifice everything they have for their children and this beautiful event is commonplace in our world. But at the same time, humans are trafficked and this gross evil is also commonplace.

Originally, the creator wanted our world to be a beautiful place. He wanted it to be filled with love and harmony. In the beginning, this creator (who we call “God”) was very evident in everything that happened. He walked with men. Our world was the closest it has ever come to a paradise. But God also wanted humans to have the ability to think and choose for themselves. Because a world without free will is dry and sterile. He wanted to give people the ability to choose to do right or wrong. Sadly, people chose what was wrong.

Even though we have rejected our creator, that nagging desire to reconnect with Him still remains in our hearts. That’s why we always ask one more “why.” We’ll never stop until we finally rediscover the one to designed is to seek him.

But it’s not like God is playing “hide and seek.” He wants to be found. But left to our own devices, we would never desire to reconnect with him… and that’s why God decided to walk among us one more time 2,000 years ago… God sent his son to this earth to show us a better way. God doesn’t want to force people into submission. He desires a real relationship with us. But, sadly, the hearts of men were still bent against him. That’s why when God’s son became a man, some evil men rejected him and put him to death. People don’t like to find out that they’ve been living the wrong way. People don’t like the truth, even if the truth promises to set them free.

God wants to reconnect with us. The question is whether we will reject him, just like so many people have done in the past, or if we’ll finally learn and return to him.

God is very patient and is waiting for us to make up our own minds. But until then, we will always have those nagging “why” questions which gently prod is toward seeking him.

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So knowing god is not having to instinct to ask “Why?”

No thanks, but don’t ask me why. :whistle:

Why? A rather simple theory based upon objectivism.
I do not ridicule your belief, I just question the flimsy reasoning for it .

So you think the Roman Empire was a paradise? Yet you complain of Human tragedies of today …wow.
You seem very certain that , God wanted this and God wants us to do that etc, but I can only see that you have pinned your beliefs upon the Holy Bible. That is fine but the “Hearts of Men” , as you put it, are not bent against someone or something that many do not believe exists. I respect you believe, really I do , but I will always have those nagging “why” questions as to why you do. I have no desire to seek Him.
I guess one day the Truth will set us all free.
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If everyone on earth including every infant wants to reconnect with the god, we will see “him”?

Nope u won’t see him
And why the quotation mark around him?