What happens to president horsey


#41

Have you been reading PTT? That sounds exactly like what PTTers would say.

The court was indeed corrupted, but CSB had many cases, some were manipulated, some were guilty.


#42

To paraphrase President Chiang Ching-kuo, no one can stay in power forever.


#43

Have you been reading PTT? That sounds exactly like what PTTers would say.

The court was indeed corrupted, but CSB had many cases, some were manipulated, some were guilty.[/quote]’

There is but one charge of which the illegal court found Chen guilty. The court was illegal because it was the judges are hand-picked by the executive branch half-way through the trial process. Even the process of changing the judges violated the court’s own internal due procedure. The motivation to change the charge was because the roc prosecutor cooked up false testimony, and if the trial had been fair, the Chinese Nationalist would have had not succeeded in detaining Chen indefinitely. The made-up charge itself was not enough, and they need a made-up verdict.

To reiterate, all the charges including this one were unrelated and cooked-up fantasy by powerful king-makers in TVBS and their boss in the PLA. Given that all the other ones failed at fair trial because of sloppy prosecution, it was critical that the Chinese on both sides need to one last chance and one sure method.

------In any case you shouldn’t have to suspect my comments are regurgitated after reading PTT. This is not the best way to state your own opinion. The answer is no I have not been reading PTT.


#44

Wonder if horsey will bolt for China once his term is up. Surely, he will not look forward to go to jail.


#45

Mr. Teflon? Bokoling-ah! He’ll go back to the US, maybe teach, get a Nobel or the Chinese equivalent. All izz well…


#46

He will get the Chinese “Nobel” like the one Lian Zhan got.

Not to be displayed on a mantelpiece.


#47

He will get the Chinese “Nobel” like the one Lian Zhan got.

Not to be displayed on a mantelpiece.[/quote]

I always forget the name of that thing… he’ll definitively get the Taiwan equivalent, the Tang prize, I bet.


#48

Have you been reading PTT? That sounds exactly like what PTTers would say.

The court was indeed corrupted, but CSB had many cases, some were manipulated, some were guilty.[/quote]’

There is but one charge of which the illegal court found Chen guilty. The court was illegal because it was the judges are hand-picked by the executive branch half-way through the trial process. Even the process of changing the judges violated the court’s own internal due procedure. The motivation to change the charge was because the roc prosecutor cooked up false testimony, and if the trial had been fair, the Chinese Nationalist would have had not succeeded in detaining Chen indefinitely. The made-up charge itself was not enough, and they need a made-up verdict.

To reiterate, all the charges including this one were unrelated and cooked-up fantasy by powerful king-makers in TVBS and their boss in the PLA. Given that all the other ones failed at fair trial because of sloppy prosecution, it was critical that the Chinese on both sides need to one last chance and one sure method.

------In any case you shouldn’t have to suspect my comments are regurgitated after reading PTT. This is not the best way to state your own opinion. The answer is no I have not been reading PTT.[/quote]

:unamused:

The guy was guilty…He was found guilty on two counts, not one (the Longtan fiasco and an office buying scandal). He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.

Even LTH called the people that were still sticking by the corrupt Chen’s side fools that “couldn’t tell right from wrong.”

Chen was as corrupt as could be. It isn’t some KMT fantasy. It was real.

There was certainly some political crap going on behind the scenes (and in front of them, for that matter), but there is no doubt in my mind that the end ruling was just.


#49

Have you been reading PTT? That sounds exactly like what PTTers would say.

The court was indeed corrupted, but CSB had many cases, some were manipulated, some were guilty.[/quote]’

There is but one charge of which the illegal court found Chen guilty. The court was illegal because it was the judges are hand-picked by the executive branch half-way through the trial process. Even the process of changing the judges violated the court’s own internal due procedure. The motivation to change the charge was because the roc prosecutor cooked up false testimony, and if the trial had been fair, the Chinese Nationalist would have had not succeeded in detaining Chen indefinitely. The made-up charge itself was not enough, and they need a made-up verdict.

To reiterate, all the charges including this one were unrelated and cooked-up fantasy by powerful king-makers in TVBS and their boss in the PLA. Given that all the other ones failed at fair trial because of sloppy prosecution, it was critical that the Chinese on both sides need to one last chance and one sure method.

------In any case you shouldn’t have to suspect my comments are regurgitated after reading PTT. This is not the best way to state your own opinion. The answer is no I have not been reading PTT.[/quote]

:unamused:

The guy was guilty…He was found guilty on two counts, not one (the Longtan fiasco and an office buying scandal). He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.

Even LTH called the people that were still sticking by the corrupt Chen’s side fools that “couldn’t tell right from wrong.”

Chen was as corrupt as could be. It isn’t some KMT fantasy. It was real.

There was certainly some political crap going on behind the scenes (and in front of them, for that matter), but there is no doubt in my mind that the end ruling was just.[/quote]

He was corrupt, admitted.

BUT - he got 19 years - the abuses of power we have seen under Ma would have him do 190 years, and I am willing to bet that he will get a slap on the wrist.


#50

Have you been reading PTT? That sounds exactly like what PTTers would say.

The court was indeed corrupted, but CSB had many cases, some were manipulated, some were guilty.[/quote]’

There is but one charge of which the illegal court found Chen guilty. The court was illegal because it was the judges are hand-picked by the executive branch half-way through the trial process. Even the process of changing the judges violated the court’s own internal due procedure. The motivation to change the charge was because the roc prosecutor cooked up false testimony, and if the trial had been fair, the Chinese Nationalist would have had not succeeded in detaining Chen indefinitely. The made-up charge itself was not enough, and they need a made-up verdict.

To reiterate, all the charges including this one were unrelated and cooked-up fantasy by powerful king-makers in TVBS and their boss in the PLA. Given that all the other ones failed at fair trial because of sloppy prosecution, it was critical that the Chinese on both sides need to one last chance and one sure method.

------In any case you shouldn’t have to suspect my comments are regurgitated after reading PTT. This is not the best way to state your own opinion. The answer is no I have not been reading PTT.[/quote]

:unamused:

The guy was guilty…He was found guilty on two counts, not one (the Longtan fiasco and an office buying scandal). He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.

Even LTH called the people that were still sticking by the corrupt Chen’s side fools that “couldn’t tell right from wrong.”

Chen was as corrupt as could be. It isn’t some KMT fantasy. It was real.

There was certainly some political crap going on behind the scenes (and in front of them, for that matter), but there is no doubt in my mind that the end ruling was just.[/quote]

He was corrupt, admitted.

BUT - he got 19 years - the abuses of power we have seen under Ma would have him do 190 years, and I am willing to bet that he will get a slap on the wrist.[/quote]

What abuses of power are you referring to? I want real examples that have collaborating evidence.

I could easily throw out the “abuses of power” claim for a majority of world leaders. Heck, if Ma is guilty of “abusing power,” what about George W. Bush or Obama?? Their abuses of power don’t just amount to trying to get trade pacts shoved through the inefficient legislature, they are sending out drones blowing up innocent civilians around the world without trials, locking people up indefinitely without trial, etc.

You have to have some evidence that Ma is clearly acting illegally. If such claims and evidence exists, I have no doubt that the DPP will jump all over it when they take power in 2016. If that happens, so be it. Until then, enough with conspiracy crap.


#51

Really? Is it because people have a limited lifespan and eventually die? :smiley:


#52

It’s probably easy to re-apply for a green card.


#53

[quote=“Taiwanguy”]…He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.
[/quote]

I have to call you out on this. It wasn’t a loophole in the system, it was the way the system functioned for decades. You can’t have it both ways.

Chen apologized for the moral lapse in keeping the funds, not over any illegality. If you want to pretend the system is what matters then you have zero call to blame Chen for keeping funds as was his right and as was the norm in Taiwan.


#54

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“Taiwanguy”]…He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.
[/quote]

I have to call you out on this. It wasn’t a loophole in the system, it was the way the system functioned for decades. You can’t have it both ways.

Chen apologized for the moral lapse in keeping the funds, not over any illegality. If you want to pretend the system is what matters then you have zero call to blame Chen for keeping funds as was his right and as was the norm in Taiwan.[/quote]
That’s why poiticians campaign everytime … they keep the money not spent and invest in real estate, or a new car …


#55

Hey now, don’t demean the Tang Prize. It’s actually surprisingly well run for something coming out of Taiwan. But the fact they have Prize in Sinology is pretty silly. At any rate, the four laureates this year are actually really remarkable people, so I have confidence it will do alright for itself.


#56

@MM Here’s my take: Chen is as guilty as the sky is blue. He is in jail for two reasons. First, he is guilty. Second, the KMT allowed the courts to do their jobs (for a change).

There are plenty of other corrupt officials across the political spectrum here. I’m glad Chen got a trial and was found guilty, and I hope any other corrupt officials end up the same way. It’s really a pity that people have to say “I hope the DPP is elected so the KMT officials get tried” or vice-versa. Whatever happened to an independent judiciary?

My “CSB is an angel” comment was directed mostly at sofun. :wink:


#57

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]@MM Here’s my take: Chen is as guilty as the sky is blue. He is in jail for two reasons. First, he is guilty. Second, the KMT allowed the courts to do their jobs (for a change).

There are plenty of other corrupt officials across the political spectrum here. I’m glad Chen got a trial and was found guilty, and I hope any other corrupt officials end up the same way. It’s really a pity that people have to say “I hope the DPP is elected so the KMT officials get tried” or vice-versa. Whatever happened to an independent judiciary?

My “CSB is an angel” comment was directed mostly at sofun. :wink:[/quote]

No problem. I don’t disagree with you much and I am truly loathe to say anything in defense if Chen who did enormous damage to his country.

As for Ma he should be investigated for influence peddling, for judicial interference, for spying on the legislative. I see nothing wrong or vindictive in this. A neutral judiciary would be investigating this already.

My main point has always been that there is little to celebrate when a corrupt system punishes someone for corruption.


#58

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]@MM Here’s my take: Chen is as guilty as the sky is blue. He is in jail for two reasons. First, he is guilty. Second, the KMT allowed the courts to do their jobs (for a change).

There are plenty of other corrupt officials across the political spectrum here. I’m glad Chen got a trial and was found guilty, and I hope any other corrupt officials end up the same way. It’s really a pity that people have to say “I hope the DPP is elected so the KMT officials get tried” or vice-versa. Whatever happened to an independent judiciary?

My “CSB is an angel” comment was directed mostly at sofun. :wink:[/quote]

Yes, trials, fair and Taiwan … it’s often an oxymoron.


#59

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]@MM Here’s my take: Chen is as guilty as the sky is blue. He is in jail for two reasons. First, he is guilty. Second, the KMT allowed the courts to do their jobs (for a change).

There are plenty of other corrupt officials across the political spectrum here. I’m glad Chen got a trial and was found guilty, and I hope any other corrupt officials end up the same way. It’s really a pity that people have to say “I hope the DPP is elected so the KMT officials get tried” or vice-versa. Whatever happened to an independent judiciary?

My “CSB is an angel” comment was directed mostly at sofun. :wink:[/quote]

On only final sentence that was actually guilty had no foundation in law. There was no proof that Chen abused his position. Instead the judge invented a charge of “Ability of Influence (實質影響力)” to pit Chen behind bars. Just because someone might have had the ability of influence, if there is no actual proof of it, it should have been a non-guilty verdict. Or in the very least, all subsequent corruption charges should have followed this precedence and give guilty verdict to those who had the ability to influence.

However, in KMT vice chairman Lin Shiyi (林世益)'s case, the “ability of Influence” precedence was ditched and the judge went by “abusing statutory purview” or “abusing powers outside of one’s statutory remit” standards that’s actually the law. So even though his mom and his wife were caught hiding cash that matched the value of the accused corruption, he was given an innocent verdict.

On the other hand, DPP’s Presidential advisor Chen Jenan (陳哲男) and DPP legislator Gao Zhihong (高志鵬) were also found guilty due to having “Ability of Influence.” It’s a KMT witch hunt, and the “Ability of Influence” bullcrap isn’t even constitutional.


#60

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“Taiwanguy”]…He wasn’t even prosecuted (due to loopholes in the system) for the millions of USD he shipped off to off-shores accounts that were left-over campaign contributions…something he blatantly ADMITTED to, apologized for, and resigned from the DPP for.
[/quote]

I have to call you out on this. It wasn’t a loophole in the system, it was the way the system functioned for decades. You can’t have it both ways.

Chen apologized for the moral lapse in keeping the funds, not over any illegality. If you want to pretend the system is what matters then you have zero call to blame Chen for keeping funds as was his right and as was the norm in Taiwan.[/quote]

Fair enough.

Do you know if that system has been changed? It seems ridiculous. And another question, if it was the “norm” in Taiwan, why did the DPP, Annette Lu, and everyone else seem so shocked at the admission from Chen?