Another discount sale on Noam Chomsky favorites? 
[/quote]
If the U.S. hadnât cut and run in Viet Nam SouthEast Asia would probably look a lot like the Middle East does today.
donât know if this has been posted, but itâs a great recap of whatâs went on so far.
A good analysis of most of the players except that it whitewashes over the fact that the butchers of Fallujah and bankrollers of the butchers of Gaza werenât motivated by humanitarian concerns over more butchery in Syria. It was the usual desire for regime change cloaked in selective humanitarianism They got cold feet though when they saw what was preparing to fill the incipient vacuum and decided to turn their guns on that instead.
[quote=âhansiouxâ]
donât know if this has been posted, but itâs a great recap of whatâs went on so far.[/quote]
Right on par with fox news narratives so it must be true. I would like to know how Hezbollah " invaded" Syria. I assume the word was redefined shortly before or after Russia invaded Ukraine an Crimea?
Some insightful and honest commentary for your listening pleasure.
Seems like where the Western powers are failing in the efforts to eradicate ISIS, Russia is succeeding. ISIS is on the verge of being pushed out of Palmyra, for instance.
[quote]Seems like where the Western powers are failing in the efforts to eradicate ISIS, Russia is succeeding. ISIS is on the verge of being pushed out of Palmyra, for instance.
[/quote]
What is it with you Western liberals? I am DAMNED sure that if the US was doing anything in Syria, you would be screaming all sorts of bloody hell, but let the Russians do it for God knows what reasons and you are like still criticizing the West but now praising Russia for doing what the West wonât do because of people like you criticizing the very same policies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Or am I misunderstanding your statement? 
Russiaâs priority is not ISISâitâs to defend the Assad regime (which allows Russia to have Syrian military bases) against the most immediate threats to it, namely the Sunni rebel groups other than ISIS. This infuriates Turkey and Saudi Arabia (also Sunni), which consider some of these groups to be the most acceptable / least objectionable possible future governments of Syria.
(So why do the Russians need a base in Syria at all? Fuck knows. i guess itâs more of a bargaining piece than anything, useful for example in negotiations over Ukraine and Crimea. Or maybe it has something to do with terrorism in the Caucasus.)
Keep in mind that a Sunni rebel victory over Assad (which seemed immanent a few months ago) would likely result in massacres of the Christian and Alawi (local Shiite) populations.
The Syrian Kurds have gotten most of what they wanted, and are just trying to hold onto their territory and autonomy (and if possible, expand this territory so that it is contiguous all the way to the coast). They would be open to an autonomy deal with whoever prevails in the rest of Iraq, but some Sunni rebel groups plus Turkey are against Kurdish autonomy, so the Kurds were excluded from (failed) talks a few years ago aimed at coordinating the resistance to Assad.
The USA is proceding slowly and deliberately, by providing air support, supply drops, and advisors to mainly Kurdish proxies in Syria, and Shiite militias and government troops in Iraq. (Attempts to organize militias itself were disastrous, but war is full of such setbacks.) No sensible US president would want to send in US ground troopsâI mean, what would their goals be? From the US point of view, Russiaâs activity (like Iranâs) is a complication, but not 100 % negative.
[quote=âZlaâodâ]Russiaâs priority is not ISISâitâs to defend the Assad regime (which allows Russia to have Syrian military bases) against the most immediate threats to it, namely the Sunni rebel groups other than ISIS. This infuriates Turkey and Saudi Arabia (also Sunni), which consider some of these groups to be the most acceptable / least objectionable possible future governments of Syria.
(So why do the Russians need a base in Syria at all? Fuck knows. i guess itâs more of a bargaining piece than anything, useful for example in negotiations over Ukraine and Crimea. Or maybe it has something to do with terrorism in the Caucasus.)
Keep in mind that a Sunni rebel victory over Assad (which seemed immanent a few months ago) would likely result in massacres of the Christian and Alawi (local Shiite) populations.
The Syrian Kurds have gotten most of what they wanted, and are just trying to hold onto their territory and autonomy (and if possible, expand this territory so that it is contiguous all the way to the coast). They would be open to an autonomy deal with whoever prevails in the rest of Iraq, but some Sunni rebel groups plus Turkey are against Kurdish autonomy, so the Kurds were excluded from (failed) talks a few years ago aimed at coordinating the resistance to Assad.
The USA is proceding slowly and deliberately, by providing air support, supply drops, and advisors to mainly Kurdish proxies in Syria, and Shiite militias and government troops in Iraq. (Attempts to organize militias itself were disastrous, but war is full of such setbacks.) No sensible US president would want to send in US ground troopsâI mean, what would their goals be? From the US point of view, Russiaâs activity (like Iranâs) is a complication, but not 100 % negative.[/quote]
Another component to the warâŚ
zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-1 ⌠ant-crisis
[quote]Indeed, tensions were building between Russia, the U.S. and the European Union amid concerns that the European gas market would be held hostage to Russian gas giant Gazprom. The proposed Iran-Iraq-Syria gas pipeline would be essential to diversifying Europeâs energy supplies away from Russia.
The Guardian reported in August 2013:
âAssad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar and Turkey that would run a pipeline from the latterâs North field, contiguous with Iranâs South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets â albeit crucially bypassing Russia. Assadâs rationale was âto protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europeâs top supplier of natural gas"
Knowing Syria was a critical piece in its energy strategy, Turkey attempted to persuade Syrian President Bashar Assad to reform this Iranian pipeline and to work with the proposed Qatar-Turkey pipeline, which would ultimately satisfy Turkey and the Gulf Arab nationsâ quest for dominance over gas supplies. But after Assad refused Turkeyâs proposal, Turkey and its allies became the major architects of Syriaâs âcivil war.â
[/quote]
1.Take Assad out .
2.Install puppet regime and Saudi pipelines.
3.Take Russian oil out of Europe.
4. No Russian economy, no stability , no more Putin and no more Russia interfering with US policies.
Beneficiaries of this scheme are the same who are supporting ISIS. Coincidence? I think not.
So, Assadâs chief source of support, Iran, is fomenting rebellion against Assad (in cooperation with Turkey and the Gulf States) because Assad would not support the pipeline that would enable Iran to export its oil (and really that of its proxy state the Shia led Iraq) to Europe? Or, is Iran part of the Assad effort to fight these efforts and thus keep more of its oil at home? Or, er, what? huh?
Oh, I get it, ITâS the Guardian. OKAY I SEE⌠I mean this is, after all, one of the publications pushing the Lancet Report that claimed 650,000 Iraqi civilian deaths from 2003-2004 released miraculously just prior to the US election. Of course, I am sure that we should not discuss this because the true figure is 150,000 from 2003-2015. Then, again, the fact that 250,000? 300,000? Syrians have died⌠without U.S. intervention ⌠hmmmm OH!!! I SEE!!! IT IS ALL ABOUT OIL AND THE US IS STILL INVOLVED!!! Of course! It just had to be! It just had to be!
So, Assadâs chief source of support, Iran, is fomenting rebellion against Assad (in cooperation with Turkey and the Gulf States) because Assad would not support the pipeline that would enable Iran to export its oil (and really that of its proxy state the Shia led Iraq) to Europe? Or, is Iran part of the Assad effort to fight these efforts and thus keep more of its oil at home? Or, er, what? huh[/quote]
What are you saying? Europe is obligated to buy gas from shia countries? Geopolitics in the ME is very confusing as there is over lapping agendas and alliances . I can see how you are a little confused and are unaware of other related narratives that fox news and the washington post rarely offer.
And I didnât mention the J word and their involvement. I thought you would be proud of me.
Exactly! And that is why Iran is fomenting revolution in Syria to stop the pipeline that it wants to build but Syria doesnât except when Iran is supporting Syria because it is its chief ally. As you have said: âGeopolitics in the ME is very confusing as there is [edit: are] over lapping agendas and alliances.â
[quote] I can see how you are a little confused and are unaware of other related narratives that fox news and the washington post rarely offer.
[/quote]
Yes, I see. I really do.
Grow with love. Love the growth.
Exactly! And that is why Iran is fomenting revolution in Syria to stop the pipeline that it wants to build but Syria doesnât except when Iran is supporting Syria because it is its chief ally. As you have said: âGeopolitics in the ME is very confusing as there is [edit: are] over lapping agendas and alliances.â[/quote]
Uh ? What? Not as confusing as your responses. . I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your celebrating the weekend a little early.
Not early, no not I, but I am now, oh, yes, I am. Now, what did you doubt? and why would that be a benefit?
whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ⌠tion-syria
Well, there you go. He promised. You can take that to the bank.
Presidents should not be held to arbitrary commitments over multiple years in a complicated, ever-changing world. I blame him for removing 35,000 troops from Iraq. THAT is a mistake that we can examine historically and find fault with. But given the history of the Middle East, can anyone really wonder that no one wants to waste blood over a bunch of feuds and wars that seem to be ceaseless? We tried in Iraq; we should have stayed the course. Afghanistan is, was and always will be a mistake. You can lead a horse to water, but⌠you cannot civilize it not unless you are willing to engage in Stalin Era mass re-engineering of demographics and populations. Anyone up for that? I didnât think soâŚ
Presidents should not be held to arbitrary commitments over multiple years in a complicated, ever-changing world. [/quote]
Youâre saying itâs not his fault he made that promise?
Or all the other ones he didnât keep?
Was he possessed by the Devil or something?
Presidents should not be held to arbitrary commitments over multiple years in a complicated, ever-changing world. [/quote]
Youâre saying itâs not his fault he made that promise?
Or all the other ones he didnât keep?
Was he possessed by the Devil or something?[/quote]
Used to be a time when people looked for lies in what the government was feeding then .now they wonder if there is any truth in what they say?
So what will be the roll of these boots on the ground? Some say training, others say to help keep the supply line open to the âmoderate rebelsâ from Turkey and even others suggest as cannon fodder as a pretext to escalate US presence. An illegal presence at that.
Then there is the downing of the Russian airliner in which isis has apparently claimed responsibility. Expect the pissed off bear who has just been kicked in the balls to get a little more aggressive.
Regardless, both sides seem to be determined to carry out their objectives/policies and this has the potential to get real ugly. I was thinking about joining the preppers club but fuck it. If the nukes start flying, I just hope I have enough time to get a big bag of blow and a few hookers together for the final farewell party.
Itâs even worse than you think. agentsmith posted this on October 6, which reported that Chinaâs only aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, had docked in the Syrian port of Tartus on October 2nd.
[quote=âagentsmithâ]Reports of China entering the war.
debka.com/article/24926/Chin ⌠i-air-base
Checkmate. Or at least a collective FU to USrael.[/quote]
And yet the US Navy was invited on an inspection tour of the Liaoning in its home port of Qingdao on October 20.
dw.com/en/china-hosts-us-mil ⌠a-18795014
This means that either:
a) the PLAN has the ability to teleport aircraft carriers, or
b) the PLAN has developed an incredible propulsion plus cloaking system that allows it to sail aircraft carriers anywhere in the world within days, totally undetected- including while transiting through the Suez Canal or the Straits of Gibraltar.
And what has Obama done to stop that, hmmm?
I donât necessarily agree with this guyâs geopolitical assessment but he makes a good point about about how US money has been wasted.