What is racism?

Race being a cultural construct is something that’s pretty well accepted in anthropology and other social sciences. I’d say it’s a combination of both, but that the cultural (and political) component is stronger in some cases. Like the way octaroons were considered “black” both legally and socially at various times and places in the U.S., even though they’re only an eighth black genetically, or the “one drop rule” where people were classified as black if they had any black blood in their lineage whatsoever, a rule that was adopted in a number of Southern states well into the 20th century. Or how in the present day someone who’s a quarter or an eighth black is likely to be considered black if he grew up in a black cultural context and self-identifies as black, and white if that’s the way he grew up. There’s also the fascinating case of how Taiwanese in South Africa were classified as “honorary whites” under apartheid because they, well, weren’t black or “coloured,” and the ROC government showed solidarity with a fellow repressive regime.

Uh, “Asian” isn’t a race (no matter how you define it), it’s a designation for people who come from the continent of Asia. And if they don’t want their kid to marry another Taiwanese, it’s more likely to be a matter of wealth or class than of cultural values.

Race being a cultural construct is something that’s pretty well accepted in anthropology and other social sciences. I’d say it’s a combination of both, but that the cultural (and political) component is stronger in some cases. Like the way octaroons were considered “black” both legally and socially at various times and places in the U.S., even though they’re only an eighth black genetically, or the “one drop rule” where people were classified as black if they had any black blood in their lineage whatsoever, a rule that was adopted in a number of Southern states well into the 20th century. Or how in the present day someone who’s a quarter or an eighth black is likely to be considered black if he grew up in a black cultural context and self-identifies as black, and white if that’s the way he grew up. There’s also the fascinating case of how Taiwanese in South Africa were classified as “honorary whites” under apartheid because they, well, weren’t black or “coloured,” and the ROC government showed solidarity with a fellow repressive regime.

Uh, “Asian” isn’t a race (no matter how you define it), it’s a designation for people who come from the continent of Asia. And if they don’t want their kid to marry another Taiwanese, it’s more likely to be a matter of wealth or class than of cultural values.[/quote]

Agree from the perspective of developing a cultural context, race can be, and often is, a core element. But a cultural context is an attempt to identify characteristic and attributes of the social category of interest. Still hold the most common definition for race is biological and in the context you are referring to it is a characteristic of the society of interest. Do not agree you can substitute the word “race” for “culture” or always associate race with a culture.

Concede the definition of race is problematic and present day attempts to define categories are difficult and not clear. Presently believe it is best described as what ever you define it to be for your specific purpose. Maybe I should have used Mongoloid instead of Asian regarding race. Will note the US Gov is now using Asian as a race definition. Again, presently it appears, race is what ever you define it to be for your poll (the US Gov did provide some guidance in answering the question).
Question 2. Race: What is your race? Choose one or more regardless of ethnicity.
____a. American Indian or Alaska Native -
____b. Asian
____c. Black or African American
____d. Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander
____e. White

However, this was really not the purpose of my challenging the use of “the Racist Card” here and elsewhere. In my opinion it is typically used here in the context of name calling (like you racist axxhxxx) just like one may call them an ignorant axxhxxx. My problem is if you accept the expanded use of race to any cultural difference, then you can call a lot of people racist.

Dr., will let you be he judge. If people made these statement, are they racist? Also assume that you know absolutely nothing about the individuals other than these statements (say from a post).

I only date black women.
I want my child to marry a Taiwanese.
I only date people of my own kind.
I will not date Asian men.

[quote=“Dr. Milker”]
Uh, “Asian” isn’t a race (no matter how you define it), it’s a designation for people who come from the continent of Asia. And if they don’t want their kid to marry another Taiwanese, it’s more likely to be a matter of wealth or class than of cultural values.[/quote]

Agree that “Asian” is an ethnicity and not a race.
But you say its more likely to be a matter of wealth or class than cultural values? You are basing this off what exactly?
I’ll be the first to admit that a lot of Taiwanese folks are indeed “racist” since having a personal preference qualifies as being a racist, right?

Does stereotyping qualify as being a racist as well?

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?[/quote]
I merely pointed out a strong correlation between stereotyping and racism.
What I am saying is that stereotyping most often ends in racism, because it stems from applying coarse, at times ungrounded, generalizations to specific people or groups. I would personally say that if stereotyping influences one’s actions and decisions in a way that appreciably impacts someone else, that’s what I would call racism. If stereotyping is used in a conversation and, most importantly, is shown to be applicable and true with valid arguments , it might not be what I call racism.

A) “I have two candidates for this job. One of them is Italian. Italians are lazy. I’ll give the job to the other guy.” Racist.

B) “Jee, that guy still lives with his parents even though he’s 30 yo. Well, that’s pretty common for Italians after all” Not racist

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?[/quote]
I merely pointed out a strong correlation between stereotyping and racism.
What I am saying is that stereotyping most often ends in racism, because it stems from applying coarse, at times ungrounded, generalizations to specific people or groups. I would personally say that if stereotyping influences one’s actions and decisions in a way that appreciably impacts someone else, that’s what I would call racism. If stereotyping is used in a conversation and, most importantly, is shown to be applicable and true with valid arguments , it might not be what I call racism.

A) “I have two candidates for this job. One of them is Italian. Italians are lazy. I’ll give the job to the other guy.” Racist.

B) “Jee, that guy still lives with his parents even though he’s 30 yo. Well, that’s pretty common for Italians after all” Not racist[/quote]

So I would not be racist if I was back home and driving through West LA and say, “Jee theres a black kid rolling up behind me. I better make sure my doors are locked because most blacks in this area are gangsters and will try to carjack me.”?

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?[/quote]
I merely pointed out a strong correlation between stereotyping and racism.
What I am saying is that stereotyping most often ends in racism, because it stems from applying coarse, at times ungrounded, generalizations to specific people or groups. I would personally say that if stereotyping influences one’s actions and decisions in a way that appreciably impacts someone else, that’s what I would call racism. If stereotyping is used in a conversation and, most importantly, is shown to be applicable and true with valid arguments , it might not be what I call racism.

A) “I have two candidates for this job. One of them is Italian. Italians are lazy. I’ll give the job to the other guy.” Racist.

B) “Jee, that guy still lives with his parents even though he’s 30 yo. Well, that’s pretty common for Italians after all” Not racist[/quote]

So I would not be racist if I was back home and driving through West LA and say, “Jee theres a black kid rolling up behind me. I better make sure my doors are locked because most blacks in this area are gangsters and will try to carjack me.”?[/quote]

Seems prudent, but it depends which part of ‘West LA’ you are in.

A functional awareness of race is not racism.

[quote=“Leftywang81”]
So I would not be racist if I was back home and driving through West LA and say, “Jee theres a black kid rolling up behind me. I better make sure my doors are locked because most blacks in this area are gangsters and will try to carjack me.”?[/quote]

Not at all.

Whereas saying “I don’t want my daughter to have any relationship with a foreigner” out of principle without even having seen the foreigner in question is very much racist. And sexist. And patronising. There is no place for that in the 21st Century.

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?[/quote]
I merely pointed out a strong correlation between stereotyping and racism.
What I am saying is that stereotyping most often ends in racism, because it stems from applying coarse, at times ungrounded, generalizations to specific people or groups. I would personally say that if stereotyping influences one’s actions and decisions in a way that appreciably impacts someone else, that’s what I would call racism. If stereotyping is used in a conversation and, most importantly, is shown to be applicable and true with valid arguments , it might not be what I call racism.

A) “I have two candidates for this job. One of them is Italian. Italians are lazy. I’ll give the job to the other guy.” Racist.

B) “Jee, that guy still lives with his parents even though he’s 30 yo. Well, that’s pretty common for Italians after all” Not racist[/quote]

So I would not be racist if I was back home and driving through West LA and say, “Jee theres a black kid rolling up behind me. I better make sure my doors are locked because most blacks in this area are gangsters and will try to carjack me.”?[/quote]

Seems prudent, but it depends which part of ‘West LA’ you are in.

A functional awareness of race is not racism.[/quote]

But you will agree that I am stereotyping the black kid just because most blacks in the area are in fact gangbangers and I would be more at risk of getting my car jacked as opposed to an old white lady rolling up behind me, right?
So the question again is if stereotyping makes you a racist. And you said 99%…
Let me rephrase. Stereotyping, to its core, categorizes certain races/nationalities. And if you don’t like the race/nationality, then that would qualify you as a racist. Sure I can say, theres a Chinese guy and a Mexican applying for the job. I haven’t seen either of them, but the probability that the Chinese guy is smarter than the Mexican is higher than the Mexican guy being smarter than the Chinese guy. Thats stereotyping, but… the question is “Is it necessarily wrong?” Theres an arab cruising around with shades and a full beard and dressed like a terrorist. Is it racist or stereotyping to even think that he might be a terrorist?

After seeing more than half of the pages in this thread[super])[/super] filled with heated debate on what is or is not “racism” I still wonder how this assertion of yours helps answer the question the OP asked[super])[/super]…

I agree after having read the thread. But I just love how that is not even criticised here, when the same case with a white father / black boyfriend would have people call it what it is: plain racism and ignorance. Welcome to Taiwan by the way.[/quote]
And it all started with an assumption based on an assumption about a postulated relative of someone who is being talked about in the discussion at hand but who is not participating in it. :doh:

Sometimes i feel the urge of considering myself lucky that people in my country usually don’t give a f*^@ about such convoluted reasoning.

EDIT:

*) This refers to the original thread from which this thread was separated: “Rejected by a conservative Taiwanese girl?”

Well, 99% of the times stereotyping is what racism is about. Or maybe, better, extrapolating conclusions on a person based on stereotypes of that person’s nationality, race, ethnicity and so forth is definitely being a racist.[/quote]

Soooooooo sorry I’m not sure if you are actually saying YES or NO.
Are you leaving yourself some wiggle room by saying 99%?
If a person stereotypes, is the person a racist?[/quote]
I merely pointed out a strong correlation between stereotyping and racism.
What I am saying is that stereotyping most often ends in racism, because it stems from applying coarse, at times ungrounded, generalizations to specific people or groups. I would personally say that if stereotyping influences one’s actions and decisions in a way that appreciably impacts someone else, that’s what I would call racism. If stereotyping is used in a conversation and, most importantly, is shown to be applicable and true with valid arguments , it might not be what I call racism.

A) “I have two candidates for this job. One of them is Italian. Italians are lazy. I’ll give the job to the other guy.” Racist.

B) “Jee, that guy still lives with his parents even though he’s 30 yo. Well, that’s pretty common for Italians after all” Not racist[/quote]

So I would not be racist if I was back home and driving through West LA and say, “Jee theres a black kid rolling up behind me. I better make sure my doors are locked because most blacks in this area are gangsters and will try to carjack me.”?[/quote]

Seems prudent, but it depends which part of ‘West LA’ you are in.

A functional awareness of race is not racism.[/quote]

But you will agree that I am stereotyping the black kid just because most blacks in the area are in fact gangbangers and I would be more at risk of getting my car jacked as opposed to an old white lady rolling up behind me, right?
So the question again is if stereotyping makes you a racist. And you said 99%…
Let me rephrase. Stereotyping, to its core, categorizes certain races/nationalities. And if you don’t like the race/nationality, then that would qualify you as a racist. Sure I can say, theres a Chinese guy and a Mexican applying for the job. I haven’t seen either of them, but the probability that the Chinese guy is smarter than the Mexican is higher than the Mexican guy being smarter than the Chinese guy. Thats stereotyping, but… the question is “Is it necessarily wrong?” Theres an arab cruising around with shades and a full beard and dressed like a terrorist. Is it racist or stereotyping to even think that he might be a terrorist?[/quote]
This is the “I think gay lifestyle is wrong” discussion all over again. I for one think that whatever goes on in your mind, if it doesn’t make you act like a dick to other people, it does not matter . You can be as wary as you want of arabs, black people and mexicans. Heck, you can even install more alarms in your house because you don’t like the looks of those new not-perfectly-white neighbors. If you keep this to yourself and don’t try to damage, inconvenience or oppose them based on their race, it does not matter and it is imo pointless to even discuss.

To use your example above, if you roll up your windows and lock your car door when you see a black guy driving behind you, who gives a damn. It’s your freedom to do what you please and act on your worries, however justifiable (or not) they might be.
If you were to call the police on him because you’re absolutely convinced is about to carjack you because he’s black, you’re a stinking racist.

It is naive to think we don’t all have little, well rooted prejudicies and discomforts in the preesence of certain categories of people: it’s what you actually do and say (and that therefore influences others) that counts and makes you a racist or not.

[quote=“Novaspes”]
It is naive to think we don’t all have little, well rooted prejudicies and discomforts in the preesence of certain categories of people: it’s what you actually do and say (and that therefore influences others) that counts and makes you a racist or not.[/quote]

Agreed. We all have well rooted prejudices and preferences…
However, I believe it doesn’t matter whether or not you actually say or act what you’re thinking or feeling inside.
Just because a racist bigot in Mississippi doesn’t go out and calling blacks the n-word or wearing white sheets burning crosses does not mean that deep down inside, he is not a racist.

Is it racist for the TSA to single out Arabs at the checkpoints and perform full body checks or double check their check in baggage?
Why single out the Arabs just because of a stereotype?
Are you going to be like hey, why are you only checking Arabs? If you’re going to check them, you might as well check ALL passengers!
No, because deep down, you want them checked as well.
Regardless of whether its smart, right or wrong, its still racial profiling and thats just another phrase for stereotyping.
And I’m just saying we ALL do it.

You can’t label a phenomenon that has no outward manifestation. “Deep down” does not matter if it does not influence others. I believe we would run in terror from most of the people we know if that “deep down” were somehow visible, but it is not. Imagining 1000 ways of killing and maiming the driver that just cut me off on the highway doesn’t make me a murderer.

Stereotyping may or may not be racist, but what makes you so quick to assume that racism is bad?

So…If I refer to black people as nigers inside my head, but I never actually come out and call them nigers, that DOESN’T make me a racist???

Careful Zla’od. Are you saying it isn’t???

So…If I refer to black people as nigers inside my head, but I never actually come out and call them nigers, that DOESN’T make me a racist???[/quote]
Not in my book. Who gives a shit about what goes on in your head if you behave like a decent human being to people of all colors? Also, who would ever know and be influenced by it? For all I care, the cat in Schrodinger’s box might be the worst racist ever, but if when the box is open I find a well-adjusted, respectful kitty, I still think it does not matter (i.e. it is irrelevant and I don’t even know why you’re fixating so much on it).