It is not only big hotels. I mean, there is at least, one hotel/motel/Band B every block. It’s insane.
They just reduced the intake one third -note: it is from the china side, not Taiwan- and we are already a lot more comfortable. But yes, the landing of the hotel industry will be scary. One hopes that some good promotion abroad may bring some variety, if just out of curiosity. But face it, the Chinese tourist money, aside from a few jobs -heck, they were importing their own bar girls- was kept in a very few pockets.
[quote=“rowland”][quote=“sofun”]
Trade what exactly? Trade immigrants?[/quote]
You export what you have a surplus of. Either it amounts to a comparative advantage of some sort, or at least you get rid of what you don’t have room for.
China has a surplus of people. It’s that simple.[/quote]
What China (and frankly the Chinese on Taiwan, Ma’s clique etc.) is thinking is Population Engineering to counteract the natural force of Taiwan identity.
It is not only big hotels. I mean, there is at least, one hotel/motel/Band B every block. It’s insane.
They just reduced the intake one third -note: it is from the china side, not Taiwan- and we are already a lot more comfortable. But yes, the landing of the hotel industry will be scary. One hopes that some good promotion abroad may bring some variety, if just out of curiosity. But face it, the Chinese tourist money, aside from a few jobs -heck, they were importing their own bar girls- was kept in a very few pockets.[/quote]
Alrighty, good for you to feel more comfortable. Tell that to the lower-middle-class Taiwanese who work in the service and hospitality industries. But hey, at least you are more comfortable and that is all that matters. Who care about jobs for less fortunate people? And for sure, Mainland tourists all bang bar girls in Taiwan and they bring their ones, too! :loco:
Eh, I was referring to the news of several Mainland Chinese women being deported for “violating the terms of their visa”, meaning working as bar girls instead of touristic affairs, viditi g relatives. Not the first time. And not just in ehem alternative service industries.
As to the thousands, that is the issue. It is not really quite a significant number and anyways, workers in Taiwan are just as disposable. Unpaid vacations are cyclical, even with large numbers of visitors - workers may accumulate rights. Moreover, we are back to the big Taiwan enterprise model: lion shares for the owner, employees should kowtow and be glad to have a job at all. Yep, one can be middle class in Tauwan with a salary of 13 to 22k working in a hotel.
It is not only big hotels. I mean, there is at least, one hotel/motel/Band B every block. It’s insane.
They just reduced the intake one third -note: it is from the china side, not Taiwan- and we are already a lot more comfortable. But yes, the landing of the hotel industry will be scary. One hopes that some good promotion abroad may bring some variety, if just out of curiosity. But face it, the Chinese tourist money, aside from a few jobs -heck, they were importing their own bar girls- was kept in a very few pockets.[/quote]
Yep the same companies own the hotels and buses and even restaurants. I’ve seen a few ‘Taiwanese’ restaurants they get dragged to and I’m pretty sure they were opened by the same operators just for the tourists!
I’ve stated in some of these hotels and appreciate the fact they are new and shiny and reasonable pricing, anybody in Taiwan a long time will remember how bad the hotel selection was years past!
The big tours are a net drain on Taiwan. Their benefits are negligible. All studies have shown that. Furthermore they have likely causes a drop in Japanese tourists.
Dropping Chinese tour group numbers is positive for Taiwan in all ways.
Concern over a few job losses is disingenuous as of course it is code for Dpp bashing. However had the kmt not changed the direction of tourism to go for the cheap big tours we wouldn’t be in the situation now. Blame kmt shortsightedness not the exercise of democracy.
That’s quite a bold statement. Where are these studies? And I mean all of them.
You can find a few escorts among the cohorts of young Taiwanese women going to Australia for working holiday as well. How does that fit into your picture?
Are you able and willing to offer better conditions though? What makes you so arrogant that you think you can belittle a 22,000 NT$ salary if you are not able to offer a higher salary or change the business model? Some people need a job and a salary now. They cannot afford the luxury of pondering business models. Yet you have already decided for these people that having a “bad job” working for Chinese money is worse than having no job.
EDIT: In another thread you have more or less answered that question. You seem to favor unregulated and likely illegal lodging, where society will need to pick up the tab for greedy capitalist scumbags and apartments are used to accommodate tourists rather than young Taiwanese graduates. Way to go.
You can find a few escorts among the cohorts of young Taiwanese women going to Australia for working holiday as well. How does that fit into your picture?[/quote]
With all respect, I’m having trouble seeing an equivalence between the scenario of “a few escorts among the cohorts of young Taiwanese women going to Australia for working holiday” and descriptions I’ve read of problems in Taiwan:
[quote]A cross-strait raid was launched by the NIA’s Specialized Operation Brigade in Taipei City and mainland Chinese police on October 17, 2013, leading to the uncovering of the two biggest brothels in Taipei City and New Taipei City. A syndicate was soliciting females in mainland China and sending them to Taiwan for prostitution, through either sham marriages or on the pretext of business. After tracking the syndicate for eight months, the NIA found that more than 300 females from mainland China had come to Taiwan over the course of a year or more, with new people sent every 15 days as replacements and at least 30 available for shifts on any given day.[/quote]–Republic of China, National Immigration Agency, “2013 Republic of China (Taiwan) Trafficking in Persons Report” (April 2014), page 13 immigration.gov.tw/public/D … 753971.pdf
[quote]The One Studio One Phoenix mode of operations is most prevalent in Taipei City and fixed locations are mostly located in Taipei County.
. . .
Most studios are located in an apartment complex. When a customer gets to the complex, the chicken head will tell the customer a room number to go to. After the customer ring the bell, a sex worker will open the door. If the customer does not like what he sees, he will get in touch with the chicken head downstairs and a new room number will be offered. These places often restrict the transaction to one hour, but some places do not set time limits, as long as a sex worker does not have another customer waiting. These One Studio One Phoenix operations involve both “Taiwanese Tea” (Taiwanese women) and “Water Tea” (Mainland Chinese women). Some studios are famous for the quality of their service, and some are appealing because they are staffed predominantly with Mainland Chinese women. Taiwanese sex workers in these studios include both full-time and part-time workers. Mainland Chinese working in these establishments may come to Taiwan on their own or by being smuggled into Taiwan by sex ring operators. [/quote]–James O. Finchkenauer and Ko-lin Chin, “Asian Transnational Organized Crime and Its Impact on the United States: Developing a Transnational Crime Research Agenda (March 2006),” pages 92-93, from the U. S. National Criminal Justice Reference Service Web site[super][color=#000080]*[/color][/super]ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/213310.pdf
[super][color=#000080]*[/color][/super]It should be noted that the report quoted immediately above contains the following caveats:
[quote]This report has not been published by the U.S. Department of Justice.
. . .
Opinions or points of view expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the official position or policies of the U.S.Department of Justice.[/quote]
[quote]As well as the illegal immigrants involved in the underground brothel scene, the entertainment and bar areas of Taiwan’s major cities are full of “married” Chinese and Vietnamese bar girls, so full in fact that Taiwanese bar girls complain of competition from the younger and cheaper immigrants. Many of the marriages are the result of Taiwanese gangsters paying amenable men to marry girls specifically to allow them to come and work the bars in Taiwan.[/quote]–Lawrence Eyton, “Trouble and strife: Taiwan’s imported brides,” Asia Times, October 2, 2003 atimes.com/atimes/China/EJ02Ad03.html
Are you able and willing to offer better conditions though? What makes you so arrogant that you think you can belittle a 22,000 NT$ salary if you are not able to offer a higher salary or change the business model? Some people need a job and a salary now. They cannot afford the luxury of pondering business models. Yet you have already decided for these people that having a “bad job” working for Chinese money is worse than having no job.[/quote]
Maybe some Taiwanese have already done some pondering:
[quote]In addition to slowing growth, Taiwan’s lackluster labor market performance is another important economic issue on the minds of Taiwan voters this election cycle. While overall employment levels have largely recovered under the Ma Administration after an unemployment spike due to the 2008–2009 financial crisis, employment opportunities are mostly in lower-skilled professions, leaving unemployment rates higher among Taiwan’s more skilled workers. Coupled with real wages that have been largely stagnant throughout the Ma Administration, the lack of skilled jobs has helped to fuel opposition among Taiwan’s youth toward the KMT-led government.[/quote]–Kevin Rosier, Sean O’Connor, and Rolando Cuevas, “Taiwan’s Economy amid Political Transition,” U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, January 6, 2016, page 10 origin.www.uscc.gov/sites/defaul … sition.pdf
For me, life is full of uncertainties, and as a person who has had both bad jobs and no job, I wouldn’t want to encourage anyone, including the Taiwanese, to take unnecessary risks. But maybe some Taiwanese are hoping that there are more options available than either having no job or having a bad job working for Chinese money.
In any case, and bearing in mind that I don’t have enough knowledge to predict the future about the Chinese-tourist issue:
On the 19th, the word in at least two papers was that there was no indication that the PRC government had made plans to reduce the number of tourists coming to Taiwan in the future:
[quote]The Tourism Bureau yesterday said it has not received any official notification about an alleged decision by Beijing to reduce the number of Chinese tourists traveling to Taiwan, adding that the quota for Chinese tourists arriving via tour groups would return to 5,000 people per day in March.
. . .
The number of Chinese tour group visitors traveling to Taiwan during the elections dropped by 31 percent, the bureau said, adding that the number rebounded to 5,613 per day on Sunday. [/quote] Shelley Shan, “Bureau unaware of Chinese tourist plan,” Taipei Times, January 19, 2016 taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003637557
[quote]Rumors that China will allow only 3,750 group tourists to visit Taiwan per day instead of the 5,000 per day allowed are false, Taiwan’s Tourism Bureau said Monday.[/quote] CNA, “China cutting visitor numbers rumor false: Tourism Bureau,” China Post, January 19, 2016 chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/chin … utting.htm
Once again, I’m just repeating what the papers said. I don’t have any personal knowledge of what’s happening or what’s going to happen with regard to the tourist issue.
The way that China literally “sends” Chinese tourists to Taiwan creates the effect of 1. low profit margin AND 2. high operating cost AND 3.loss of opportunity, on Taiwanese hospitality and tourism industries.
1 is mainly due to the Chinese attitude that travelling to Taiwan is domestic, hence a Chinese will pay another Chinese according to Chinese price.
2. is mainly due to the capacity required, for any given business establishment, to accommodate a large group of visitors at once. A good example to illustrate this point is to consider an establishment of 2 staff is incapable of coping with a group of 10+ Chinese tourists at their doorstep. If this establishment doubles its staff, it is wasteful investment for the entire day, because the group of Chinese tourist will only be at the establishment for 30 minutes.
Loss of opportunity to serve higher revenue-generating customers is self-explanatory.
EDIT: In another thread you have more or less answered that question. You seem to favor unregulated and likely illegal lodging, where society will need to pick up the tab for greedy capitalist scumbags and apartments are used to accommodate tourists rather than young Taiwanese graduates. Way to go.
Icon wrote:Disclosure: The independent Mainland China travelers is supporting my pal’s Airbnb business, so I am especially interested in keeping this open.
Taiwan’s economic dynamism comes from a rather laissez faire economy -with it pros and cons- that is based on small and medium enterprises, a myriad of them. Like a body, we are talking about putting the most amount of cells and organs into play, not just the big ones. Those huge sharks that have the means to build and own the huge hotels and resorts and big bus tours -the kind that plague the countryside by building in illegal lands and hence come down crashing in a typhoon, or destroy lush rice fields scenery to build a parking lot- keep the earnings to themselves, while the small/medium entrepreneurs that receive the small travelers engage in a lot more: dialogue about learning from each other, more ecological concerns, more visits to other areas and hence further distribution of earnings. You cannot compare one to the other.
And yes, I am very “proud” because I think a Taida graduate should earn more than 22K -or any college graduate, especially of such fine establishments as for instance the Kaohsiung School of Hospitality- and that raising families on that salary in this cost of living should not be seen as a “privilege” and “you cannot complain as the option is to be out of a job”. Fear and coercion and lack of respect for workers’ right is not a desirable outcome of the so called benefit of receiving such large numbers of “customers”. The Chinese money goes into Chinese pockets. There is no trickle down of benefits nor the net effect of B&Bs and Airbnb and others.
And it is glorious. Just as a black man could become President of the United States of America, now, the DPP can change from the opposition party to the ruling party. I just hope they do a good job.
That ROCs’ so-called “law” can be used as an excuse for ROC to take private properties, without even any consultation with the stakeholder, is absolutely horrible. This is what happened to my grandpa’s land in 1949~50s. They’re still doing it today.
That ROCs’ so-called “law” can be used as an excuse for ROC to take private properties, without even any consultation with the stakeholder, is absolutely horrible. This is what happened to my grandpa’s land in 1949~50s. They’re still doing it today.[/quote]
Your grandpa should have received government bonds for his land. Is this not the case?
Politically speaking, it seems like a mistake for the DPP to push so many transitional justice proposals at this time. Party assets I can get behind, but the SYS stuff seems like it could wait. Not that I don’t understand the sentiment but the prioritization seems questionable.
Politically speaking, it seems like a mistake for the DPP to push so many transitional justice proposals at this time. Party assets I can get behind, but the SYS stuff seems like it could wait. Not that I don’t understand the sentiment but the prioritization seems questionable.
[quote=“Mr He”]They are teading the KMT, making sure that the most extreme people get it the driver’s seat.
With luck they will win the next electoral cycle based on riling the KMT and showing them as out of touch and completely unable to comprehend.[/quote]
Hmm, could be. Although with HHC in the running for KMT chair, I’d imagine that the best tactic would be to just simply let her spout off on her own. The DPP can seem reasonable and clear-headed by just focusing on transitional justice that has real teeth and impact (like party assets) and leave the purely symbolic stuff (portraits, flags, names and languages) for a later time.
Politically speaking, it seems like a mistake for the DPP to push so many transitional justice proposals at this time. Party assets I can get behind, but the SYS stuff seems like it could wait. Not that I don’t understand the sentiment but the prioritization seems questionable.
Can you help me better understand what “holistic” means in this context? The party assets issue seems clearly in the realm of justice and fairness to me. Likewise, educational reform such that Taiwanese schools teach about Taiwan as Taiwan, and not a Chinese appendage. The SYS stuff, though, seems to be about symbolism - and there are plenty or uglier symbols like the Grate Leeder which I think are far more offensive.