My South African Friend was very helpful.
He was kind enough to tell me that I should always greet other South Africans by saying “jou sissie se vissie”.
Can’t wait to try that at a bar tonight and make some new South African friends.
You and me both, mate. However, that was easily remedied with one times airplane ticket to Taiwan. Unfortunately some of the bastards followed me here. :fume:
In Bismarck’s words (in real life), “Stop being such whiney motherfuckers”.
Sorry if you don’t mind me quoting you, mate, but let’s get real. A lot of South Africans do go on way too much about their country’s problems, and nobody wants to hear that. We are not from your country and we don’t give a shit, to put it as bluntly as possible. I know that most non-Americans don’t care about internal American problems, so why should anyone care about internal South African racial problems? Nobody wants to hear guys go off about racial politics half the night.
[quote=“Quentin”]In Bismarck’s words (in real life), “Stop being such whiney motherfuckers”.
Sorry if you don’t mind me quoting you, mate, but let’s get real. A lot of South Africans do go on way too much about their country’s problems, and nobody wants to hear that. We are not from your country and we don’t give a shit, to put it as bluntly as possible. I know that most non-Americans don’t care about internal American problems, so why should anyone care about internal South African racial problems? Nobody wants to hear guys go off about racial politics half the night.[/quote]
Ja(yes),Quentin.If you knew just how bad the situation was in some areas,perhaps you’d understand why we bitch about the current goings-on.If you had a president who uttered such claptrap as “HIV doesn’t cause AIDS”,or when attending the recent summit of African leaders to discuss the downward spiralling situation in Zimbabwe(Rhodesia) blurted that he(minutes before the start of the summit)was,when questioned by reporters as to what he might have to say to the despot Mugabe,answered “Im goowing to agri with evareetheeng he hez too say”,then you MAY understand why we sometimes,nay,often-rant about our country’s “problems”(& that is euphemistically put).
And if you(or anyone)can’t take it,walk away.
Walk a mile in our shoes & you might change your tune.
What nationality are you anyway?American?
[quote=“Taiwanderer”][quote=“Quentin”]In Bismarck’s words (in real life), “Stop being such whiney motherfuckers”.
Sorry if you don’t mind me quoting you, mate, but let’s get real. A lot of South Africans do go on way too much about their country’s problems, and nobody wants to hear that. We are not from your country and we don’t give a shit, to put it as bluntly as possible. I know that most non-Americans don’t care about internal American problems, so why should anyone care about internal South African racial problems? Nobody wants to hear guys go off about racial politics half the night.[/quote]
Ja(yes),Quentin.If you knew just how bad the situation was in some areas,perhaps you’d understand why we bitch about the current goings-on.If you had a president who uttered such claptrap as “HIV doesn’t cause AIDS”,or when attending the recent summit of African leaders to discuss the downward spiralling situation in Zimbabwe(Rhodesia) blurted that he(minutes before the start of the summit)was,when questioned by reporters as to what he might have to say to the despot Mugabe,answered “Im goowing to agri with evareetheeng he hez too say”,then you MAY understand why we sometimes,nay,often-rant about our country’s “problems”(& that is euphemistically put).
And if you(or anyone)can’t take it,walk away.
Walk a mile in our shoes & you might change your tune.
What nationality are you anyway?American?[/quote]
How is it possible for a poster who was banned to come back and continue posting racist comments?
How is it possible for people who publicize the fact that they were part of a racist killing machine (that considered non-Whites as inferior) to get a job teaching kids?
I’m sorry if you have gotten that impression Funk.
Maybe the guy who exploded at you have just had a bad day. Do understand what it is like to be ‘me’. It is nearly impossible for me to find a job back home because of my color. I’m sure I can, but I don’t want to risk it.
And look at me here…in Taiwan. I call for a private who speaks to me for 10 minutes, then reduces the hourly rate when they hear I’m South-African. In the past 6 years I’ve had many interviews where people say that my accent is fine, but they prefer a Canadian or American. I have COMPLETELY changed my accent (and my spelling) because when I spell ‘colour’ the way I’m used to, parents circle it in communication books and I need to justify why I did it. And that my English isn’t bad.
Once a kid puked and I ran to get the mop…and a fellow Canadian snarled that it is because us South-Africans are so desperate for work that the bosses are expecting more from them…that they would never come to school early, work overtime or do any favors. There are always jokes like ‘maybe she doesnt understand the accent’ or ‘speak slowly’.
so, we’re the underdogs back home, and here. Maybe some people have become so protective that they will snap at anything that MAY question their ability. Still a silly thing he did.
I knew sod all about South Africa until I came to Taiwan and met a bunch of South Africans. For the longest time I couldn’t understand what all the fuss was about… why people dissed them and so on… When I say I knew nothing, I mean the only time I really remember hearing about SA was from Oprah. I had no pre-conceived notions of South Africa or South Africans as people. I couldn’t understand why, unprovoked, many SA’s would launch into the defensive even though I was never really sure what they were trying to defend or why they wanted to prove so badly that SA was such a great place when I had no negative myths in my head that needed to be dispelled. Then I fell in love with one; one who is feircely loyal to her country and who had nothing nice ever to say about North Americans even though at that time she had never set foot on Canadian or American soil. She had a very CNN perspective of where I come from. I learned a lot about SA from her and more about the good than the bad. I think there are two types of SA’s - those who love to rant and rave about what an awful dangerous place it is and those who can really see the good yet maintain and healthy respect for the problems that do exist.
My SA girlfriend took me to South Africa last CNY. I was floored. I loved it. It was definately the most beautiful country I’ve seen and the most intellectually stimulating holiday I’d ever taken. Having a North American reference point with the history of segregation, slavery, race relations, etc… it was a sociological heaven for me. And I risk minimizing and dismissing the very harsh experiences many SA’s have had when I say that I didn’t feel any less safe in Cape Town than I would in downtown San Francisco. I know I was only a tourist for 3 weeks so I know it is completely different than living there and living in fear of burglaries, rape, hijackings ( I did see the hijakc squad in a mall) on a day to day basis. I never want to take away from that nightmare people there have experienced and which is very real for them.
Then I took my SA GF to Canada to go sailing up the sunshine coast in BC for 3 weeks this past August. While I think she liked Canada she didn’t like that it was “too white,” that it felt “too safe,” and that the regular joe-shmoe university student conjured up images of rugby players rapists.
I think it made her feel uncomfortable that random people would stike up a conversation with us over a beer or that everyone was just really, really friendly and interested about her being from SA (in a good way). The SA’s that we met on that trip said they wouldn’t go back to SA because of all the crime and that is really fucking sad becuase SA is such an incredible place that just needs some time to sort it’s shit. People can’t lose sight of the fact that it is a very new country in many respects… they have so much they still need to sort out… the end of apartheid is recent past and therefore there are a lot of kinks to work out. I just with the international community would lend more of a hand.
I can understand why the OP feels he rubs SA’s the wrong way. I felt, while I was there, it was hard to connect with them. They were a bit more guarded and not as willing to just make a friend. It was just a different degree of friendliness I guess. Maybe they are so used to being judged and criticized that they take a bit longer to warm up to you. I have many SA friends here who I love to death and who aren’t like that… but they have also been in Taiwan around people from other countries for along time now and are a bit more open-minded I think.
anyway… I’m not sure if I’ve articulated exactly what I feel or mean but maybe someone out there knows what I’m getting at.
1 Like
[quote=“Quentin”]In Bismarck’s words (in real life), “Stop being such whiney motherfuckers”.
Sorry if you don’t mind me quoting you, mate, but let’s get real. A lot of South Africans do go on way too much about their country’s problems, and nobody wants to hear that. We are not from your country and we don’t give a shit, to put it as bluntly as possible. I know that most non-Americans don’t care about internal American problems, so why should anyone care about internal South African racial problems? Nobody wants to hear guys go off about racial politics half the night.[/quote]
Quote away, Quentin, although I can’t remember saying that. Could have been enebriated and irritated at the time, though.
A good friend in Taiwan once told me I should talk less about rugby. I said I like to talk about rugby. He said most people don’t care and don’t want to hear about it. Ah well, can’t please everyone I guess. I myself don’t like hearing negative whining about SA either. I tend to avoid that sort. Personally I was very happy back home and only came here to “live a little.” I hated hearing about other people’s stories about their years working in London, New York, Vancouver, Sydney and on a kibbutz in Israel. Decided I wanted to make my own stories.
Once here, I have been interested in making friends from all over the world, and when asked about SA to be a good ambassador and encourage folks to visit and see for themselves. I have encouraged many friends here to visit SA and they’ve all come back with a positive feeling and great stories.
Conversely, I’ve never been particularly interested in going to Canada or the States, largely because in my mind I’ve always assumed it’s basically like SA. To be sure, different problems, different people, but basically a western country with a recent history, right? Not like going to Europe a seeing 1-2000 year old buildings or coming to a place like Taiwan that is so far removed in terms of culture and language as to conjure exotic images in the minds eye.
However, having made many friends from there I certainly hope to visit them all one day. I look forward to seeing New York, Quebec, Edmonton, LA, Arkansas and Kentucky.
And that, for me, is the essence of travel. To meet people from all over and to learn from each other in positive ways. To make friends and reach a different understanding of where we all come from. This can only be done if you keep an open mind and interest someone about where you are from. I can only imagine how someone who has no real knowledge of SA would feel if I said, “Nah, don’t bother going there. It’s a shit hole run by a bunch of monkeys and you’ll probably be robbed and ass raped once you leave the airport.” And truly, the exact opposite is true. Sure there are bad elements, but aren’t there everywhere? There are socio-economic problems, but doesn’t every country have them?
I can understand how some folks have had bad experiences with Saffas, but try what I try. When encountered with a dickhead, from say America, I don’t think, “Geez, Yankees are a pack of pricks.” I think of my mates from there, what excellent fellows they are, and put it in perspective that way.
Funk, next time you meet a Saffa, try to talk about sport. Something along the lines of, “So, how are those Springboks doing?” may work wonders. 
edit An after thought. With some people nothing will help. Some folks are best served keeping to the weather.
She was clearly in the wrong part of Canada then.
I went to a High School where I was the minority as a white guy.
This was an all time excellent post. Well done.
No worries, I knew sod all about Canada (except that it’s cold 
)until I came to Taiwan and met a bunch of Canadians.
Did you ever talk about why? Was it just the CNN thing? The old government used to wax lyrical about how the Americans had gotten us involved in Angola to fight the Commies, but sold us out when the Russians brought in the Cubans and modern fighter jets. At the time, most people swallowed that hook, line and sinker.
To be sure, there is an element of truth to that, but the old government would be lying if they said the bush war had nothing to do with official government policy at the time of internal destabilisation of our Southern African neighbours. The three dangers were a prominent part of government policy:
- Die Rooi Gevaar (The red - Communist - Peril)
- Die Swart Gevaar (The Black Peril)
- Die Roomse Gevaar (The Roman - Catholic - Peril)
I can understand how people believed the rantings of a xenophobic fascist government which strictly controlled the media and the public’s knowledge of what was actually going on. But to still believe these things, after what has come out in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, is ludicrous.
[quote=“Battery9”]And look at me here…in Taiwan. I call for a private who speaks to me for 10 minutes, then reduces the hourly rate when they hear I’m South-African. In the past 6 years I’ve had many interviews where people say that my accent is fine, but they prefer a Canadian or American. I have COMPLETELY changed my accent (and my spelling) because when I spell ‘colour’ the way I’m used to, parents circle it in communication books and I need to justify why I did it. And that my English isn’t bad…
so, we’re the underdogs back home, and here. Maybe some people have become so protective that they will snap at anything that MAY question their ability. Still a silly thing he did.[/quote]
With what I wrote above and the feeling of always being the underdog, some folks do tend to get defensive. Also, many people also felt cheated and lied to (after the Truth and Reconciliatio Commission) and not a little ashamed.
I myself get defensive at times. Trust me, it doens’t feel particularly great being associated with the period 1948 to 1990. Most Saffas, and especially the younger ones, would prefer to be associated with the events after 1990. When the issues prior to 1990 are brought up, our backs are up.
But as Battery9 said, there’s no reason to be rude to a stranger. If they’re interested, one could always try to tell them your point of view and have a reasonable discussion. One could also opt not to discuss such matters.
Well said. And very true.
I think growing up in a country where you are used to see black people everyday, it is somewhat distrubing being somewhere where there are none or few.
I remember feeling mildly uncomfortable the first few months in Taiwan and I couldn’t figure out why. The place was nice enough, but for some reason I felt wierd. When I went back home for vacation I realised it was because I never saw black people. It felt unnatural to me. I imagine she felt the same way.
I find that strange. I think that’s more due to personality and upbringing than being a Saffa. I’ve never had a problem with random strangers talking to me and being friendly. It’s one of the things the I’ve read on the threads here that I understand the least. But, then again, I am a talker. So having random Taiwanese (or anyone else) coming up to me to talk doesn’t bother me.
The irony is that in SA the newspapers, magazines, commercials and Tourism Department would have you know that foreigners believe South Africans to be the friendliest people in the world. We are told how internationally Saffas are sought after as well educated and hard working individuals and that we have an international reputation as being friendly.
I always wondered about that, especially when driving at the speed limit and having some bloke in a BMW give me the bird, or roll down his window whilst overtaking me and shouting, “Fok jou!” (F**k you.)
Personally, having been living abroad for five years and having met people from all over the place, I think we (Saffas) have a very closed perception of ourselves and how people view us. The only real international exposure most Saffas get is through sporting ties, and that being largely with Europe, Australia and New Zealand. In the press (whenever the national or regional teams lose) the blame is usually placed on the referees. There is this mentality that exists that “they’re all against us.” From a sporting perspective it’s very hard for the average Joe to accept that the Springboks played badly. This example may shed more light on the Saffa psyche. When the national team wins a game (especially against New Zealand and Australia) Monday everyone talks about how wonderful the team is and how they can do nothing wrong. The next weekend they lose and instantly they become a bunch of overpaid assholes or the ref was against us. Nothing short of winning every single time is deemed acceptable. A black guy who plays well becomes a hero, but when the team as a whole (not because of an individual) loses many folks grumble about affirmative action and quotas in sport.
It’s ironic that only non Saffas can see the reality. Years ago the famous All Black captain Ian Fitzpatrick said, “The Springboks are awesome. I tremble at the thought when one day we have to face a Springboks side comprised from 45 million people and not just 4 million.”
See this article to get a better idea of what I’m trying to illustrate:
superrugby.co.za/default.asp … gby/sevens
Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say (in an apologist tone, I admit) is that we’re a mixed breed. To quote my chief instructor at Officers school, “To survive in the Navy, you have to learn to ignore the assholes.” I think that is a truism that is relevant anywhere.
Make friends with Saffas (there are some great ones out there), but ignore the assholes.
Enough SA bashing. Some of them are hot and they are a real breath of fresh air compared to some of the pear-shaped, mole-faced North American expats we’ve had to put up with for so long here. You haven’t lived until you’ve been to a real South African braai, by the way. Almost better than sex…almost.
She was clearly in the wrong part of Canada then.
I went to a High School where I was the minority as a white guy.[/quote]
Ahhhhhhhhhhh, good ol’ LaSalle High School.
Bismarck:I think growing up in a country where you are used to see black people everyday, it is somewhat distrubing being somewhere where there are none or few.
You’re a fucking card,my mate!!!Hahahahahahahaha!!!
She was clearly in the wrong part of Canada then.
I went to a High School where I was the minority as a white guy.[/quote]
we were in vancouver and calgary.
She was clearly in the wrong part of Canada then.
I went to a High School where I was the minority as a white guy.[/quote]
we were in Vancouver and calgary.[/quote]
And she thought it was too white? The last time I was in Vancouver I was a bit unsettled to see how many Asians there were, and how few white people.
She was clearly in the wrong part of Canada then.
I went to a High School where I was the minority as a white guy.[/quote]
we were in Vancouver and calgary.[/quote]
And she thought it was too white? The last time I was in Vancouver I was a bit unsettled to see how many Asians there were, and how few white people.[/quote]
whadda they call it now? Hongcouver, is it?
[quote=“AAF”][quote=“Taiwanderer”][quote=“Quentin”]In Bismarck’s words (in real life), “Stop being such whiney motherfuckers”.
Sorry if you don’t mind me quoting you, mate, but let’s get real. A lot of South Africans do go on way too much about their country’s problems, and nobody wants to hear that. We are not from your country and we don’t give a shit, to put it as bluntly as possible. I know that most non-Americans don’t care about internal American problems, so why should anyone care about internal South African racial problems? Nobody wants to hear guys go off about racial politics half the night.[/quote]
Ja(yes),Quentin.If you knew just how bad the situation was in some areas,perhaps you’d understand why we bitch about the current goings-on.If you had a president who uttered such claptrap as “HIV doesn’t cause AIDS”,or when attending the recent summit of African leaders to discuss the downward spiralling situation in Zimbabwe(Rhodesia) blurted that he(minutes before the start of the summit)was,when questioned by reporters as to what he might have to say to the despot Mugabe,answered “Im goowing to agri with evareetheeng he hez too say”,then you MAY understand why we sometimes,nay,often-rant about our country’s “problems”(& that is euphemistically put).
And if you(or anyone)can’t take it,walk away.
Walk a mile in our shoes & you might change your tune.
What nationality are you anyway?American?[/quote]
How is it possible for a poster who was banned to come back and continue posting racist comments?
How is it possible for people who publicize the fact that they were part of a racist killing machine (that considered non-Whites as inferior) to get a job teaching kids?[/quote]
If you have taken the trouble to scan previous posts of mine you would have seen that if anything,I consider the Chinese to be SUPERIOR to Caucasians by virtue of the fact that they advanced technologically in many areas WAY before Europeans did.
If you love those indigenous people from South Africa that you appear to support so much,why don’t you go back there & teach THEM English???
[quote=“Taiwanderer”]
If you have taken the trouble to scan previous posts of mine you would have seen that if anything,I consider the Chinese to be SUPERIOR to Caucasians by virtue of the fact that they advanced technologically in many areas WAY before Europeans did.
If you love those indigenous people from South Africa that you appear to support so much,why don’t you go back there & teach THEM English???[/quote]
hahaha, anyway, its a complete myth that a culture / race’s having discovered / used technology that another culture has not yet done makes them superior.
Its completely related to the geography / habitat that we originated in.
What a crock of shit,TyCOON!!!Provide some proof,mothersticker!!..hahahaha
Read the book ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’ and then tell me its a crock.