I think it was more an assumption on his part that I couldn’t speak Chinese, and nothing (even speaking Chinese!) was gonna change that.
I wonder, how good does a Western-looking person’s Chinese have to be in order to avoid these sorts of situations?[/quote]
That’s it. I’ve had this exact experience many time over. I think my Chinese is pretty decent, but McD and KFC employees are funny. I even had this happen at a Chinese restaurant in Houston. I asked for chopsticks 3 times before the girl realized I was speaking Chinese, because what I was saying wasn’t registering in English. Her eyes got real big when she finally understood.
i think they are being nice, friendly, accommodating, gaining face, practicing Engrish, trying to make you feel comfortable, showing off and making assumptions. It’s not really a big deal but we all have to go through the same frustration and part of our experience of living in another country. Just use it as an opportunity to communicate and educate.
Yesterday I went to my local 7-11 for coffee at an ungodly hour for me (before noon), and there were two young clerks I’d never met. I asked the girl in Chinese for a big cup of hot American style coffee and she freaked out and asked the boy to serve me. I repeated my order and he turned to her and said ‘he’s speaking Chinese la!’ We had a conversation in Chinese and he kept turning to her and saying ‘see, he speaks the national language…’
It doesn’t piss me off when they speak English to me but it pisses me off when you speak Chinese and they are assuming you are speaking a foreign language just because you are a foreigner. It shows how prejudice affects perception.
I think that Grumpy very early in the thread indicated that he was not interested in the practical reason
but the psycological reason. I think the psych reason is to evaluate their ability or confirm their ability to themselves.
Esp after years of learning.
to evaluate their ability or confirm their ability to themselves.
[quote=“Horza”]I think they just want to practice English… I mean, I doubt they’re intentionally trying to wind you up Usually people will be happy (and relieved) to lapse back into Chinese when they realise that your Chinese is better than their English, but occasionally they will persist. I don’t mind as much if English is the stronger mutual language, but it does get a bit annoying if them using English is hampering communication. I’m thinking less of social situations here and more of formal situations…say, a landlord or bank clerk. There is one lady in my local 7-11 who insists on using English every time I go in, and for some reason it drives me up the wall. Other than that it’s mainly just waiters in Mos Burger saying “Welcome” and “Here is your meal, sir”, which I don’t mind at all.
One of the strangest and most annoying occurrences happened in Macdonald’s last year. I went to the counter and, in Chinese, said I’d like a Big Mac meal (while also pointing at it). The guy looked scared and confused, then turned to his fellow worker and said “我不會講英文!!”. He then turned back to me and said, with several pauses and stuttering, “… can’t… speak English…wait…”. Then I replied with “沒關係，我會講國語!” He then replies instinctively in Chinese, saying “稍等一下”, then comes back with the designated English speaker, who says “hello”. Wanting to make a point, I repeated “我會講國語”, and the new guy then takes my order with the whole exchange in Chinese, the other guy standing there looking confused. Now, you might be thinking that I just have sucky Chinese (quite possibly true!), but I don’t think that’s why I wasn’t understood. I think it was more an assumption on his part that I couldn’t speak Chinese, and nothing (even speaking Chinese!) was gonna change that. I mean, even if I was completely mute, I was pointing at the damn Big Mac meal.
I wonder, how good does a Western-looking person’s Chinese have to be in order to avoid these sorts of situations?[/quote]
I used to manage a fast food resturant in the states, a long time ago, and the exact opposite happened with a worker who came and got me to take the order of some Taiwanese people who were speaking perfect English.
An acquaintance of mine always spoke Chinese with me because…well, his English sucks. Then one night I see him out with some girl on his arm and, wouldn’t you know it, he decided to try to string together a few English sentences. It was all so obviously to impress the girl. Unfortunately for him, I was mostly responding with “Huh?” The “conversation” only lasted long enough so that he could get out while saving some face. The next time I saw him we were back to Chinese as usual. :neutral:
It’s an interesting question and as pointed out there are numerous reasons. I sometimes dread going into shops for the first time since I know all kinds of shit could be about to go down. It’s the basic rudeness of clerks simply freezing up and not speaking any language to you at all that upsets me most. (On a bad day I might ask them if they are a mute.) I mean convenience store transactions are international in their banality; you know what the opposing party’s saying even if they speak to you in Swahili. If I’m being a dick and meet someone who insists on speaking English (badly) I might throw the old “sorry I can’t speak English” line out there. Why presume someone speaks English just because they look like a westerner? But usually I just grunt in a monotone and shuffle off in my slippers…
[quote=“suiyuan31”]
An acquaintance of mine always spoke Chinese with me because…well, his English sucks. Then one night I see him out with some girl on his arm and, wouldn’t you know it, he decided to try to string together a few English sentences. It was all so obviously to impress the girl. Unfortunately for him, I was mostly responding with “Huh?” The “conversation” only lasted long enough so that he could get out while saving some face. The next time I saw him we were back to Chinese as usual. :neutral:[/quote]
This came up in a class of mine when I was asking my (adult) students why teenagers always stop me and take pictures with me (I live kind of out in the boonies so I get my picture taken several times a day, with or without my permission). What followed was a discussion about how foreigners are viewed in different countries. In America, and most western countries, we’re all sort of immigrants or foreigners- we are used to seeing people of a different color who act differently. Here, we really are a novelty. It’s just a different way of looking at things.
Also, most people’s contact with foreigners has been with TEACHERS. And it probably started at a fairly young age. Teachers who are exuberantly encouraging them to talk, unendingly friendly (because we’re paid to be) and enthusiastic when someone in class uses English. Can we blame them if they think all foreigners are ecstatic when they speak English? They probably see it as something in the foreigner personality, rather than an occupational hazard.
Then, there’s the willingness of Taiwanese people to engage in hero worship. I know that sounds terrible, but I actually think it’s kind of nice. It’s sort of an innocent willingness to show appreciation and admiration. I think us westerners got it knocked out of us in teenagerhood when it was uncool to show enthusiasm. They don’t have that here. When people here see something good, man, hook line and sinker they’re loving it. Plus people see movies and imagine that we’re all super witty and cool and live kick ass lives ---- or really heroic----or often if you happen to be a foreign woman in her 20’s, they link your blond hair/blue eyes with all sorts of crazy ass sexual things (I literally had a conversation about this with a guy who was really into western porn. I’ll spare you the details)— because that’s how all these white people are portrayed in movies.
So yeah I think it’s a mixture of things but mostly the teacher thing. I think this is why a lot of unknown 4 and 5 year olds beam up at me- I think, ‘Oh, I must look sorta like their kindy teacher’.
Anyways, just my 2 cents…
If you go to a place like McDonalds at Guting MRT station you are likely to be spoken to in English due to many foreigners frequenting it that cannot speak Mandarin.
Oh, one more thing- I’ve found that a polite yet firm “Bu hao ee tsu, wo hi yo shi, wo shien dzo luh.” Works wonders with clingy English speakers. Sorry for the terrible romanization, but I believe it means “I’m so sorry, I have a thing (to do), I need to leave now.”
And to echo the dude who speaks Japanese—
I lived in Italy for a bit, and you better bet I full on harass any Italians who cross my path to let me practice my Italian. And it sure as hell isn’t for them. It’s for me to recover my pride after the terrible insult that is Chinese (I learned more Italian in 6 months in Italy than I’ve learned of Chinese in two years here =P )
Interesting. I enjoy NOT letting Japanese people know I can speak the language. I find that knowledge has greater impact when it comes out organically.
I have no problem if someone greets me to my face, in a respectful, friendly way. As long as you’re not looking [strike]for free Engrish lessons[/strike] to be my ‘friend’.
What I don’t like is when someone calls me from behind. Sometimes it’s a drive-by hello, sometimes it’s someone who saw you from the front before they decided to call you from behind. I don’t care why they do it, to me it’s disrespectful and cowardly and gets a full ignore.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“suiyuan31”]
An acquaintance of mine always spoke Chinese with me because…well, his English sucks. Then one night I see him out with some girl on his arm and, wouldn’t you know it, he decided to try to string together a few English sentences. It was all so obviously to impress the girl. Unfortunately for him, I was mostly responding with “Huh?” The “conversation” only lasted long enough so that he could get out while saving some face. The next time I saw him we were back to Chinese as usual. :neutral:[/quote]
I’m surprised he talked to you at all after that.[/quote]
He has to…he works in a place I frequent, which is why I used acquaintance. Even though I find this sort of “show off” thing annoying, it’s pretty harmless. He’s a nice kid and most of the annoying English people are nice, outgoing people. They are relatively rare in Taiwan, as well.
I have had the occasional super-annoying person who I just can’t avoid INSISTING on speaking English. When I was a student at Shi-da, the security guard from one of the buildings would stop me and ask me tons of questions he had written down from the newspaper. It got to the point where he was writing down 10 pages per week, and when I told him I was in a hurry he would leave it with me and ask me to translate it for him!!! After I ‘lost’ them all, he stopped talking to me.
There is currently another similar guy who talks to me almost every day. I have no way to avoid him, as he is on my walking path. He speaks the worst English: “You…work?” “You…no work today?” “Today…hot.” And sometimes he goes on and on and I have no flippin’ idea what he is saying, at which point I just walk away. Now what really gets me is that he has heard me speaking Chinese to other people several times. I am not a Chinese master, but I’m fluent. One day, the guy says, “You…like study Chinese? Should…like my uh Engawish…little little every day…then…good.” :loco:
Have any of you guys ever been to France, especially Paris? If you try to speak in English to anyone in a shop or restaurant, THEY will insist on speaking French to you and pretend to not understand you even though they are quite capable to communicate in English with some effort. And when you indicate you’re sorry that you don’t speak any French and continue with English, it’s THEM who get pissed off at you. How’s that for a change? Aren’t you grateful now to live in Taiwan where people actually make an effort to speak to you in a (to them) foreign language and DON’T get pissed off when your Chinese sucks?
I found that to be true in Paris, but frankly, so many Americans behave so poorly there (I saw it many times myself) that it’s no wonder they are snotty assholes to us. If you start out IN FRENCH apologizing for your poor language skills and ask really nicely if they will help you in English, they usually will. Once you get outside Paris, most French people are incredibly friendly and if you don’t have much/any French, they will try to help you in English if they can.
Having struggled to learn a little teeny bit of Chinese now in a month (and I have five phrases mastered and recognize one more, big deal!) I no longer have any sympathy for Americans who do not learn a little bit of basic French before going to France. “I am American, I speak only a tiny bit of French, sorry, could you help me in English, please?” is really easy compared to the same in Chinese, which one friend told me when asked and there’s not a chance of me remembering.
I agree with GC Rider, people here are very helpful to the non-Chinese speaker and I am appreciative of all the people who were nice to me. And I won’t make fun of their Engrish, either, because it’s massively better than my Chinese, for now…
Quoted for truth. In the south of France, its how you can instantly tell if your waiter is an arrogant, up-himself schmuck from Paris working the holiday season or someone from a civilized part of the country.
In my experience a fair number of girls/women cannot speak English OR Mandarin to a foreigner. You say the exact same thing to them multiple times and they get that glazed look. It’s like an instant brain freeze happens when they see a foreigner. Then they walk to the back and usually get a man. You say the exact same thing to the man and have no problems communicating, instantly get served. Same phrase, same tones, but only the managers can understand.
Or… It could just be that I’m so handsome and they are in awe! :discodance: That’s surely the reason.
Just tell people you’re from Catalonia or Portugal and your Chinese is better than your English. Chances of meeting someone in Taiwan who speak Catalan or Portuguese are slim. If you happen to run into that one guy/girl who does speak it then I’ll pay you to buy me a lottery ticket cuz you’re f***ing L-U-C-K-Y. Problem solved!
Usually people will be happy (and relieved) to lapse back into Chinese when they realise that your Chinese is better than their English, but occasionally they will persist. I don’t mind as much if English is the stronger mutual language, but it does get a bit annoying if them using English is hampering communication. I’m thinking less of social situations here and more of formal situations…say, a landlord or bank clerk. There is one lady in my local 7-11 who insists on using English every time I go in, and for some reason it drives me up the wall. Other than that it’s mainly just waiters in Mos Burger saying “Welcome” and “Here is your meal, sir”, which I don’t mind at all.
After I ‘lost’ them all, he stopped talking to me.
