Gosh, I was not aware that Michelle Zen had any opinions about whether the use of Pinyin with beginning students of Chinese led to foreign accent. Or that the looks of the teacher in question had anything to do with the use of Pinyin.[/quote]
No but it has bearing on whether he should keep his tutor or not, which was asked on-topic - and it proved true (tangentially)!!! Just one “man’s” way of expressing it.
You can discuss whatever you like, including “juvenile” topics, sex, etc. The objection the ladies have is that when a woman tries to discuss a topic in the open forums, the guys pile on with the puerile jokes that are unrelated to the question. We don’t care if you discuss all the details of your latest conquest. But it would be nice (but seemingly impossible, without a separate forum) for a woman to be able to raise a question and get an answer, rather than a bunch of unrelated BS, in a handful of cases. And these are the topics that end up in the women’s forum, and are handled quite differently to the way they would have ended up being handled “in the open”.[/quote]
Your implication is that women don’t go OT (though I admit I’ve seen fewer of that than men doing so, though that might be because there seem to be quite a bit more men than women on here). And from my admittedly short experience here, it’s moderators who go OT about as much as the rest of us! Is it really so hard to filter out the weeds?
But anyway I’m agreeing with you, but I think fair is fair, and in return we should have a complimentary (as in matching, not as in free) men’s forum.
[quote=“ironlady”][quote]So maybe Men should have a forum only for men in which we can discuss those topics freely. As you said earlier, if requested, men should have a men’s only forum, as should gays and other sexual orientations and cultural groups who have a “different way of discussing things”.
I hereby cast my vote for a men-only forum in which we are free to be as puerile as we want without getting temp’d or banned. OK so no porn or explicit nudity, and no threats of violence or ignorant boxcutter jokes, but the rest is a free for all.[/quote]
Doesn’t bother me if the men want their own forum, although it has been previously pointed out on many occasions that they already do, in essence. It’s called Forumosa, given the preponderance of male posters. But if y’all want to lobby for The Puerile Forum and get a qualified gatekeeper to judge if prospective members are childish enough – be my guest! [/quote]
As a wise man once said “So let it be written, so let it be done!”
[quote=“ironlady”]Because there are substantial differences in how women discuss (look up the linguistic references if you don’t believe me).
[/quote]
I agree with you here, but I don’t think that makes segregation (whether physical or virtual desirable). Male and female thinking patterns are the same in the womb until about 6 weeks or so after conception, when men are bombarded with testosterone. This causes fundamental differences in the way girls and boys think and learn. Girls tend to be stronger communicators, more emphathetic, more respectful of authority etc. whereas men are usually more aggressive but better abstract thinkers.
Because of their stronger empathetic skills, stronger communications skills, and respect for structured environments, girls often perform much better in mediocre public school environments. Perhaps, following your logic , it would be better to segregate all of the sexes in elementary and junior high etc. they way they do in some Medieval Middle East regimes. It would provide boys with a place to discuss things where they don’t have to critiqued or feel ashamed for their less developed communication or empathy skills. Where their abstract thinking can actually be valued by specially selected educators (like mods) instead of belittled by so many inferior teachers.
Bullshit. When you have a group of women together, there is just as much gutter talk. People are people and saying that these characteristics are inherently a male trait on Forumosa is just the kind of tribalism that should be combatted at every opportunity. If the roles were reversed and Forumosa was primarily a female site, there would be just as much gutter talk. Would males though be asking for a private forum? Of course not.
I disagree. Women that decide to live in developing countries are a tough, strange breed (just like the male expats that come over). This is a univeral trait that can’t be split by gender despite the fact that Women’s Studies grads and other hyper-educated people might want to infuse their own biases into this subject. Creating a seperate forum that basically provides princesses with special treatment and privacy comes across like 19th Century paternalism to me. What’s next? A finishing school for lady Forumosans so they can learn to bake, waltz, and marry into a blue-blood family? Sorry, I’d prefer for females to survive in the real world. That’s full equality and that’s what real feminists (and I consider myself one) should be fighting for.
The reason there is a women’s forum is because the female participants on this site have determined there’s a compelling need for one, and the admins agree.
Actually, I would ask for it, so I could make penis jokes without getting Snoo-Snoo’d.
That’s a huge stretch Chewy, why not come back to the real world. It’s a frickin forum, not a Million woman March on Washington. Based on the moderators I’ve met in person on this site, 19th century paternalism is about as far away as Lecter-style cannibalism (with the exception of urodacus, who would eat anything if it were coated in chili peppers… or cheese…). They’re just trying to be open-minded and fair I’d say.
But we should still get our men’s forum under the same philosophy.
As I said, I get why women would prefer to discuss certain topics among themselves. But what is happening the building of two communities - one exclusive to women, one open to both men and women.
Likewise, there could be a gay forum or a Spanish language forum or a Buddhist youth forum. But these would be separate, isolated communities. Sure, members may participate in the general forum sometimes, but then they’d go back to their sandboxes.
I disagree that creating segregated forums has helped to strengthen the larger community. I have not seen any noticeable increase in the number of women or German-speakers participating in the general forums, have you? Sure there are some new faces, but others have left. The demographic makeup now seems about the same as it always has.
But if the goal is to bolster multiple, exclusive groups, then I’d say the new forums have done a good job.
[quote=“Gao Bohan”]I disagree that creating segregated forums has helped to strengthen the larger community. I have not seen any noticeable increase in the number of women or German-speakers participating in the general forums, have you? Sure there are some new faces, but others have left. The demographic makeup now seems about the same as it always has.
But if the goal is to bolster multiple, exclusive groups, then I’d say the new forums have done a good job. [/quote]You may wish to reconsider your criteria for ‘strengthening the larger community’. (Not that I’m sure that’s the proper metric in the first place.) Why measure it in number of members? Perhaps user satisfaction is a better criterion. (Mostly) English-language users with ties to Taiwan is a fairly limited pool to begin with: the prospects for growth aren’t exactly unlimited. But those who are here may be significantly more satisfied and better served because there’s a Women’s Forum, German Forum, ect. Take away IP and Tech, and while I’d still be around, I wouldn’t get nearly as much out of f.com.
But those forums are open to everybody. Don’t you think that’s slightly different than a locked forum exclusive to one gender?[/quote]
Slightly different, but I accept that it’s usefulness for those posters is enhanced by its being locked.
I recognize the validity of the principled objection, but this is one of those things that works better in practice than it can be justified in theory.
[quote=“Gao Bohan”]
But those forums are open to everybody. Don’t you think that’s slightly different than a locked forum exclusive to one gender?[/quote]
As for the community-building part – the women also post in the open forums, and proportionately much more than we post in the women’s forum. In fact, it’s not really common to have much going on in there. It’s used for issues that are “exceptions”, so to speak. We are part of the F.com community, but we’re a very, very small part by numbers. We only take the topics that we know from long experience will get mangled in the open into the Women’s Forum. So it’s not like we’re building a private little clubhouse and we never talk to anyone outside of it – it’s more like there’s a curtain in one corner behind which one can say something quickly when that’s appropriate, and then duck back out into the party.
OK, not a private clubhouse, I agree. But not a little corner behind a curtain either. More like a room inside the house, locked, with a guard screening entrants. “And here is where the womenfolk gather to discuss private things…”
But hey, this isn’t my website. It’s not my decision to make.
I fully support and encourage qualifying members to make their time on Forumosa exclusive to the private forum currently available.
It, no doubt, would enhance their online experience greatly.
I’ll be honest, I don’t really get the women’s forum, for some of the reasons that others have outlined. But that’s not important. It’s enough for me to know that some of the women I respect a lot think it IS important, and that it’s an important, if not central, part of their Forumosa experience, so it’s safe to say that the women’s forum is here to stay.
A men’s forum probably isn’t going to happen for several reasons:
-Verification would be a hundred times more of a hassle than for women, just because of the demographics - there are many more men posting here than women.
-There would be a lot of silliness that isn’t really worth anything once you’re out of the moment, and we already have the temp forum for that.
-Worthwhile content posted in a private forum would diminish the rest of the forums.
-The inevitable “porn” element would require a lot of moderation, to weed out the hardcore and underage stuff from the softcore stuff that might be acceptable. How on earth would I ever find a moderator who’d be willing to go through that stuff day after day and make those hard decisions?
It’s a step towards further balkanization of forum content. Already we have many forums that are not visible to the general public. Some of them are necessary for the operation of the site, like the admin, moderator, and flame forums. Others are already a part of the furniture, like the temp forum and the women’s forum.
I’d be more open to an “adults only” forum that wouldn’t be totally private, just viewable by members only (like the temp forum), and would allow for the racy stuff. The thing is, pretty soon it becomes a forum for our cruder members (you know who you are) to talk about scatological sexual behaviour, and other kinds of moral turpitude. Why would I want my name to be associated with a site that allowed that kind of degeneracy? And what advertiser would want to be associated with that?
As much as I appreciate the odd wet t-shirt picture , I think this kind of forum would be a very slippery slope to disgust and depravity.
Let me know if you can think of a way around this.
Maoman -
Good overview comment.
My suggestion - Keep things like it is.
Any change, either real or proposed, is going to trigger rancorous debate that, in the end, looks like it will wind up back where it started.
I dont think such a lewd forum would benefit Forumosa. Totally agree with you on this. However, I still think creating a forum that applies to 51 percent of the worlds people (women) is kind of bizarre, even if they are in a minority in Taiwan, but I accept your explanation.
Shouldn`t such logic also be applied based on economics though? Most posters on Forumosa are first world economic migrants, including most of the women that post on here. However, I am sure there are a minority of Forumosans (both female and male) on here that are developing world economic migrants. Perhaps, their experiences, concerns, challenges, and issues they face on a daily basis are quite different than the majority and perhaps they should have their own forum where they don’t have to reveal their poorer economic conditions to the world. After all, doesn’t poverty have greater downsides than being a woman? Aren’t these workers in the minority on Forumosa as well? Don’t they deserve a forum just as much? Aren’t they exploited in Taiwan to a much greater degree?. And with Internet being so accessible, aren’t they using the Internet so much more on their spare day off a month.
To be the true voice of foreigners in Taiwan and be seen as the foreigner forum, shouldn’t there be special treatment applied to them given that they are the largest demographic of foreigners in Taiwan? The blue collar ones?
[quote=“Maoman”]I’d be more open to an “adults only” forum that wouldn’t be totally private, just viewable by members only (like the temp forum), and would allow for the racy stuff. The thing is, pretty soon it becomes a forum for our cruder members (you know who you are) to talk about scatological sexual behaviour, and other kinds of moral turpitude. Why would I want my name to be associated with a site that allowed that kind of degeneracy? And what advertiser would want to be associated with that?
As much as I appreciate the odd wet t-shirt picture , I think this kind of forum would be a very slippery slope to disgust and depravity.[/quote]
Maybe I’m wrong. JapanToday has a forum (the Love, Sex, and Relationships forum) that is members only and has the soft-core porn stuff. It doesn’t seem to be too evil, just a trifle boring. They have a long-standing thread called “A Tribute to the Beauty of Asian Women” which seems to consist of mostly bikini idols and girls on the street. Will this enhance your Forumosa experience?
[quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Maoman”]I’d be more open to an “adults only” forum that wouldn’t be totally private, just viewable by members only (like the temp forum), and would allow for the racy stuff. The thing is, pretty soon it becomes a forum for our cruder members (you know who you are) to talk about scatological sexual behaviour, and other kinds of moral turpitude. Why would I want my name to be associated with a site that allowed that kind of degeneracy? And what advertiser would want to be associated with that?
As much as I appreciate the odd wet t-shirt picture , I think this kind of forum would be a very slippery slope to disgust and depravity.[/quote]
Maybe I’m wrong. JapanToday has a forum (the Love, Sex, and Relationships forum) that is members only and has the soft-core porn stuff. It doesn’t seem to be too evil, just a trifle boring. They have a long-standing thread called “A Tribute to the Beauty of Asian Women” which seems to consist of mostly bikini idols and girls on the street. Will this enhance your Forumosa experience? [/quote]
I reckon you’d be looking at a pretty much fulltime job making sure that some posters (!!kafftommykaff!!) stayed within the required limits…I think pretty much everyone on here knows where to find pictures of ladies with their clothes off if they’re in the mood for that sort of thing.
I got no beef with the Girls’ Forum, my only concern is that it doesn’t get regarded as a validation of a lot of their monkey-headed misinterpretations and mis-tellings of the way things go on around here.
And no, the rest of Flobistan is NOT already a Boys’ Forum, there’s all KINDS of restraint that gets exercised in here in consideration of the possibility that a browsing girl or SO mought could take offense.
Not that any of THEM will believe that…
[/quote]
[/quote]You may wish to reconsider your criteria for ‘strengthening the larger community’. (Not that I’m sure that’s the proper metric in the first place.) Why measure it in number of members? Perhaps user satisfaction is a better criterion. (Mostly) English-language users with ties to Taiwan is a fairly limited pool to begin with: the prospects for growth aren’t exactly unlimited. But those who are here may be significantly more satisfied and better served because there’s a Women’s Forum, German Forum, ect. Take away IP and Tech, and while I’d still be around, I wouldn’t get nearly as much out of 
, I think this kind of forum would be a very slippery slope to disgust and depravity.
