07 Fed Budget makes huge cut to PBS funding

tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11508

I forget how many billion dollars a month they blow on that frickin’ fiasco in Iraq, meanwhile back at home we get this. Man, F these guys. NPR is the only decent thing on the radio back home.

And NO, PBS is not a liberal mouthpiece. I read an indepth analysis debunking this claim and can dig it up if need be.

Then again, with documentaries like THIS, I can see why the GOP wants to kill off PBS… They’d rather have our kids grow being brain-washed by the advertising industry into the kind of mindlessly stimulus-addicted lab rats that Trey Parker depicts in his newest piece…er…Idiopolis?

Long overdue.

Slightly off topic, but I sometimes listen to America public radio on the internet (a show from Boston called On Point http://www.onpointradio.org/about/

I’m surprised by how biased it is in favor of the democrats. If i were a yankee tax payer, i would be brassed off.

Best thing on NPR is the music programs.

Good riddance and after that I have a lengthy list of where money can be saved. Why do we need public radio or public TV? Do we have public newspapers? public magazines? public Internet blogs?

To date, including the new budget for 2007, the US has now spent $650 billion on fighting wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and against terror. Starting from 2001 (end) so all of 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 plus major invasion operations in Afghanistan ($650 billion divided by say 5.25 years) we get $123 billion. The current budget is forecast is $2.7 trillion. So $123 billion for Iraq, Afghanistan and the war on terror is costing us roughly 4.5 percent of our budget. The share for Iraq alone is around 1.8 percent. Seems worth it to me. By way of contrast, we have spent nearly $13 trillion on social programs (education, welfare, health care) and many of these vast increases in spending (education and welfare) have not resulted in improved ability or lowered poverty. Where is the liberal outcry then?

IF anyone were truly concerned about our budgetary situation, they would call for a privatization (partial or otherwise) of social security, a raise in the retirement age to 72, privatization of the post office, sell or close down AmTrak, revamp our public-school system (average cost in federal spending alone not including grant money from private charities which also reduces federal tax coffers in many major cities like NY, Camden, et al. is around $22,000 per student!!!).

Wars are much more expensive than just the cost when you fight them. Didn’t the last civil war widow die in the 1990’s? We’ll be paying for VA benefits for this was well into the 21st century if WWII is anything to judge.

But, you’re right. PBS is peanuts.

Why dont we ever talk about this stuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:wink:

Idiocy, but more honest than the crap they tried to pull when Kenneth Tomlinson was put in charge.

[quote=“fred smith”]The current budget is forecast is $2.7 trillion. So $123 billion for Iraq, Afghanistan and the war on terror is costing us roughly 4.5 percent of our budget. The share for Iraq alone is around 1.8 percent. Seems worth it to me. [/quote]Which comes off the top–that thin cream of discretionary monies available. What are the percentages on that, fred?

J, I am curious. Nothing more. But have you listened to NPR before on a regular basis or are you basing your opinion only on what you read?

I’m not trying to entrap you or anything. Really.

Really. :slight_smile:

J, I am curious. Nothing more. But have you listened to NPR before on a regular basis or are you basing your opinion only on what you read?

I’m not trying to entrap you or anything. Really.[/quote]
Yep. I download and listen to several of their podcasts, daily.

When I lived in Montreal, my landlady did fund raising for Vermont PBS and NPR (yeah, that’s Canadians contributing to American public airwaves), and I helped out when she hosted cocktail parties. Interesting collection of people; great to talk with. Good programming too.

Do you tune in often?

J, I am curious. Nothing more. But have you listened to NPR before on a regular basis or are you basing your opinion only on what you read?

I’m not trying to entrap you or anything. Really.[/quote]
Yep. I download and listen to several of their podcasts, daily.

When I lived in Montreal, my landlady did fund raising for Vermont PBS and NPR (yeah, that’s Canadians contributing to American public airwaves), and I helped out when she hosted cocktail parties. Interesting collection of people; great to talk with. Good programming too.

Do you tune in often?[/quote]

That’s cool. I don’t listen to it anymore, but in college and grad school I really enjoyed the alternative stuff, sitar jam bands and such things; in grad school I liked the amount of local politics. What I do seem to recall was that many of the authors they had were far to the Left, and I was moderately Left back then.

Are you opposed to public education? Hospital subsidies? Medicare/Medicaid? Unemployment stipends?

Certainly not. I am against the view that more money is always better. That more money spent will deliver better results. The view that money is the best answer to social problems. We have wasted a lot of money on these social programs and no one here squealing about the lost funds in Iraq and Afghanistan and the War on Terror is worried about that. Given that we are talking vastly huger sums, I would question the bitching about the $600 billion spent over nearly five years (less than 5 percent of our budget) on all these other wars included.

Well, for starters, how about because there’s this thing called the public airspace which all those private networks are making all that money off of? Or the fact that television and radio technology (not to mention satellites, computers, banking, international commerce, oil exploration, etc.) could not exist without all the tons of tax-payer-fed funding that went into it?

Or simply the admittedly subjective fact that I’d like to watch something besides reality TV shows and whatever other mindless crap bottom-line-driven media moguls decide they ought to offer me? That I’d like to listen to some quality news programs that aren’t filtered by frickin’ Rupert Murdoch?

Sorry that it pisses you off that no one’s making a 250 times the salary of their employees off of public broadcasting, but I honestly don’t know anywhere else that I can listen to interviews with bluegrass historians, learn about the growing tourist industry in Iraq, find out about the traditional parenting revival movement, listen to “A Way With Words” and get a host of other information services that the lowest common denominator market simply doesn’t provide. Oh boo hoo, you’ll say. Well, yeah. Boo hoo.

As far as the budget stuff, well you’ve got me there. I’ve read and heard tons of reports that the actual cost of the war is far and away higher than the government puts it at, especially when figuring in veterans’ benefits as someone mentioned earlier - and if as you say it’s such a small percentage of the budget I don’t really see why we’re running such huge deficits as opposed to a decade ago (other than the GWB upper-class tax giveaway) under your “small government” Republican administration - but then I won’t bother pretending to understand much about that stuff. Once again you’ll probably prove to me that I’ve just been brainwashed by too much public news programming.

So, although I’d much prefer paying $18 (the Amtrak price) to $180 (the cheapest commuter flight) for my twice-a-year commute from LA to San Diego and back, if you say Amtrak should go I won’t dispute you. I can afford the difference, even if a lot of people who actually regularly commute between those cities couldn’t.

Word to that. I really like NPR, but it’s coverage during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict was heavily biased in favor of Lebanon, and I did not care for that. However I appreciated the different perspective, and in general I love the quality of their programming. I caught the show on the bluegrass movement…good stuff. My vote goes to keep it, and I back that up with my tax dollars.

I’m glad to hear JD’s perspective. While he’s a Republican he recognizes that NPR has quality programming and he’s man enough to admit it. Those who favor cutting public spending for the arts tend to be bitter conservative, war-mongering republicans. But even most republicans, if they were to actually listen to NPR or check out other publicly funded arts honestly and openly would surely admit they beat the hell out of the alternative.

Face it, 99% of commercial radio sucks. The programming sucks and the constant interuptions of loud, crass advertising sucks. Is a society better off having quality radio and TV programming that bring diverse arts, culture and education without crass advertising? Is a culture better off with public support of museums, theater, art, music, drama, and the like? Or are we content to slide to the lowest common denominator of crass, commercial crap. I vote for the former. Moreover, as was pointed out above, we’re talking about peanuts. Heck, just a month’s spending on the whole fraudulent Iraq debacle would fund all US art’s programs for many years, at current levels. Wouldn’t most people give up one fighter jet wreaking devastation in distant lands in favor of a first-class museum in their community? I would.

Direct Public Expenditures on Arts and Museums, Selected Countries

Country…Per capita public arts spending…Public arts spending as % of GDP…Public arts spending as % of total public spending
Finland £59.20…47%…2.10%
Germany £56.50…36%…1.79%
France £37.80…26%…1.31%
Sweden £37.50…29%…1.02%
Netherlands £30.30…21%…1.47%
Canada £29.90…21%…0.93%
UK £16.60…14%…0.65%
Australia £16.40…14%…0.82%
Ireland £5.6…0.07%…0.43%
US £3.8…0.02%…0.13%

canadacouncil.ca/NR/rdonlyre … ct2005.pdf

Consider that the US government will spend $2 trillion ($2,000,000,000,000) fighting a losing war in Iraq.
csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html
Surely they can spare some loose change for the arts, education and the like.

A nice argument by Bill Moyers in favour of public broadcasters, acknowledging complexity, public dialogue, measuring ourselves against high standards.

[quote=“Moyers - What Democracy Means”]We are often asked whether our kind of journalism matters. People are curious about why we give so much time to novelists, playwrights, artists, historians, philosophers, composers, scholars, teachers-all of whom we consider public thinkers. The answer is simple: They are worth listening to.

Some years ago I was invited to testify before a House of Representatives committee on funding of the arts and humanities. Opponents were making their skepticism felt toward PBS, the National Endowment of the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Humanities. I had been present at the creation of all three during my time in the White House with Lyndon Johnson, and now all three were once again in the crosshairs of conservatives like Ronald Reagan who were asking: "Why should we subsidize intellectual curiosity?" Reading Shakespeare, it was said, does not erase the budget deficit. Plunging into the history of the 15th century does not ease traffic jams. Listening to Mozart or reading the ancient Greeks does not repair the ozone layer.

[…]
Critics said these programs taught no one how to bake bread or build bridges. And they were right. Despite public television - not to mention symphony orchestras, municipal libraries, art museums, and public theaters - crime was still rampant, the divorce rate was soaring, corruption flourished, legislatures remained stubbornly profligate, corporations cooked their books, liberals were loose in the world doing the work of the devil, and you still couldn’t get a good meal on the Metro to Washington. Why persist, some members of Congress wanted to know, when there are so many more urgent needs to be met and so many practical problems to be solved?

I did not have a tried-and-true answer for members of the committee. I could not hand them a ledger showing that ideas have consequences. I chose instead to tell them what they could have learned if they had been listening to the people who appeared in our broadcasts.

[…]
They would have heard Peter Sellars, the iconoclastic director of Shakespeare in a swimming pool and Mozart in the Bronx, explain that he wants “to put our society up next to these great masterpieces. Are we thinking big enough? Are we generous of spirit? What does our society look like, next to the greatest things a human being ever uttered?”
[…]
They would have heard the philosopher Martha Nussbaum confess that in one sense there is no message or moral in the ancient Greek dramatists - “simply the revelation of life as seen through the sufferer.” But there is a value, she went on, in seeing “the complexity that’s there, and seeing it honestly, without flinching, and without reducing it to some excessively simple theory.” You begin then, she said, to realize that trying to wrest a good life from the world may lead to tragedy, but you still must try.
[…]
Some members of Congress got it. They realized that we were talking not only about how to improve our lives as individuals but how to nurture a flourishing democracy. Wouldn’t we have been likely to deal more effectively and quickly with pollution if we had thought about where we fit in the long sweep of the Earth’s story? Could we better tackle our spending priorities as a society if we were prepared to acknowledge and confront the pain of conflicting choices, which the ancient poets knew to be the incubus of agony and the crucible of wisdom? Might we better decide how to use our wealth and power if we have measured and tested ourselves against the greatest things a human being ever uttered? Are we not likely to be more wisely led by officials who have learned from history and literature that great nations die of too many lies?
[…]
We know who the enemies of democracy are. In his Jefferson Lecture the late Cleanth Brooks of Yale identified them as the “bastard muses” propaganda, which pleads, sometimes unscrupulously, for a special cause or issue at the expense of the total truth; sentimentality, which works up emotional responses unwarranted by, and in excess of, the occasion; and pornography, which focuses upon one powerful human drive at the expense of the total human personality. To counter the “bastard muses,” Brooks proposed cultivating the “true muses” of the moral imagination. Not only do these arm us to resist the little lies and fantasies of advertising, the official lies of power, and the ghoulish products of nightmarish minds, they open us to the lived experience of others - to the affirmations of a heightened consciousness - to empathy. So it is that when Lear cried out to Gloucester on the heath: “You see how this world goes…” Gloucester, who was blind, answered: “I see it feelingly.”
[…]
As I watch and listen to our public discourse today, it seems to me we are all “institutionalized” in one form or another, locked away in our separate realities, our parochial loyalties, our fixed ways of seeing ourselves and others. For democracy to prosper it requires us to escape those bonds and join what John Dewey called “a life of free and enriching communion” - to become “We, the People.” The late James W. Carey, one of our noted scholars of communication, wrote that the very concept of “public” could once be defined as “a group of strangers who gather to discuss the news.” In early America the printing press generated a body of popular knowledge. Towns were small, and taverns, inns, coffeehouses, street corners, and the public greens - the commons - were places where people gathered to discuss what they were reading. These places of public communication “provided the underlying social fabric of the town and, when the Revolution began, made it possible to quickly gather militia companies, to form effective committees of correspondence and of inspection, and to organize and to manage mass town meetings.”

The public was no fiction, Carey said. The public had no life, no social relationships, without news. The news was what activated conversation between strangers, and strangers were assumed to be capable of conversing about the news. In fact, the whole point of the press was not so much to disseminate fact as to assemble people. The press furnished materials for argument - "information," in the narrow sense - "but the value of the press was predicated on the existence of the public, not the reverse." The media's role was humble but serious, and that role was to take the public seriously.

[…][/quote]

Cut PBS funding? Putting irate left-leaning TV and radio workers into the job market so that they can spread their message sounds like a great idea. Too bad for the GOP, people and don’t just disappear.

PBS is one of the only group making educational TV. Major networks see that kids are interested in watching violence, and they can make their money by advertizing. At least in Taiwan the parents are very anxious to see their children succeeding so there are a lot of educational shows on TV here. Children’s programming just isn’t the same when the company’s out to make a profit.

I suppose the cuts are in retaliation for the ousting of Kenneth Tomlinson, the chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and one of Karl Rove’s stooges, who told PBS officials in Nov. '05 that “they should make sure their programming better reflected the Republican mandate.” Now Tomlinson is chairman of the Broadcasting Board of Governors, which manages Voice of America radio, despite a slew of charges against him including illegal horseracing, putting friends on the payroll despite inexperience, overbilling the government, etc.

The current head of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is an outspoken critic of NPR and a major Republican donor. Yet there is no evidence that her will has somehow “trickled down” to lead PBS to “better reflect the Republican mandate”.

PBS is one of the only group making educational TV. Major networks see that kids are interested in watching violence, and they can make their money by advertizing. At least in Taiwan the parents are very anxious to see their children succeeding so there are a lot of educational shows on TV here. But children’s programming just isn’t the same when the company’s out to make a profit.

If they support publicly funded media programming, then they must be “left-leaning”. Too bad for the “Republican mandate”, the irate left-leaning TV and radio workers that are being threatened with 25% cuts won’t disappear.

The cuts are in retaliation for the ousting of Kenneth Tomlinson, the chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and one of Karl Rove’s stooges, who told PBS officials in Nov. '05 that “they should make sure their programming better reflected the Republican mandate.” Now Tomlinson is chairman of the Broadcasting Board of Governors, which manages Voice of America radio, despite a slew of charges against him including illegal horseracing, putting friends on the payroll despite inexperience, overbilling the government, etc.

The current head of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is an outspoken critic of NPR and a major Republican donor. Yet there is no evidence that her will has somehow “trickled down” to lead PBS to “better reflect the Republican mandate”.