I was asked to do a 1.5 hour demo as part of a job interview. I haven’t done it yet, but would like to know if a 90 minute demo is considered normal? The job would be part-time only.
It seems a little long IMHO.
A demo of any length is “technically” illegal. Most demos are 10 to 15 minutes long. An hour and a half “demo” is a school using you for a free sub for a teacher who has to be out that day, or for that class. Many times, schools will advertise for a new teacher and ask for a long demo just to find a free sub and there really is not job on offer in the first place.
That’s long. What school?
That’s what I thought.
Housecat is correct. They’re taking the piss. Tell them this: 
Hour and a half? Complete scum.
I’ve never done a demo and never will. I would never want to get a job at a school that is run by complete assholes. Yeah almost all schools in Taiwan are ran by assholes, but not 100% complete assholes. In my experience the schools that wanted free demo’s always paid crap wages, had tons of extras and office hours added in, and treated employees like dogs. You lose either way in my opinion. If you “win” and get the job, then you lose because it’s a shitty job. If you don’t get the job then you gave the scum free work which they are surely making money from. It’s a lose lose situation.
I say you mention the school so nobody else falls into the trap. If it is illegal, report these losers to the CLA.
Tell them you will give the free demo but you need travel expenses of $1000 NT paid up front before you can walk out your door.
Forgetting about the legal issues for a minute, if the demo is for 90 minutes, I would fully expect that this time would be paid for at the standard rate. I have done a full day demo in the past, paid in full (in cash) at the end of the day. I used this longer time as an advantage to demonstrate my abilities at classroom management, lesson planning, and general friendliness/compatibility with other staff (and, as such, was offered a full-time position). If you are in a position where you cannot do the demo legally, then you must consider this concern. Otherwise, under no circumstances should a 90 minute demo be provided for free. No respectable school, or any school with which you should ever consider cooperating with, would require an unpaid demo of this length.
[quote=“niaoahgin”]
On the other hand, many schools have signed contracts (sans demo) with folks completely unable to fulfill the requirements of their position, thus necessitating the standard practice of demo teaching. You might be surprised at how terribly some people teach (with no experience, training, or propensity for teaching whatsoever), despite their stated interest in pursuing teaching as a career. I speak from my experience of evaluating both native-speaking and local teachers of English. If you don’t have the experience, skills, or passion for ESL/EFL, please consider another path in life.[/quote]
Was the OP really asking for your advice on his path in life? If not, then maybe you don’t need to offer it. 
They’re taking the piss. I’d take the piss. I’d agree to do it and then not do it, letting them know at the last possible moment. Maybe they’d then ring up a bunch of other schools and bad mouth you, but I doubt it. You’d leave them in the lurch and maybe they’d think twice about such antics in the future.
The shitty industry that is English teaching in this country will never change unless we take it right back to them.
[quote=“SillyWilly”]I was asked to do a 1.5 hour demo as part of a job interview. I haven’t done it yet, but would like to know if a 90 minute demo is considered normal? The job would be part-time only.
It seems a little long IMHO.[/quote]
When you are done with your 90 minutes sucking it all up teaching, could you please stop by my house and buy me a free lunch?
[quote=“SillyWilly”]I was asked to do a 1.5 hour demo as part of a job interview. I haven’t done it yet, but would like to know if a 90 minute demo is considered normal? The job would be part-time only.
It seems a little long IMHO.[/quote]
Never did the 1.5 hour demo. Cancelled it cause even on the phone the manager didn’t want to tell me if there were positions available. Did a 30 minute demo today at a different school and got the job! Yippee! 
[quote=“SillyWilly”]
Never did the 1.5 hour demo. Cancelled it cause even on the phone the manager didn’t want to tell me if there were positions available. Did a 30 minute demo today at a different school and got the job! Yippee! [/quote]
More than likely you will be covering a class for which they have no teacher. The signs are bad. Demo lessons are bad. Most places in the UK don’t want to see a demo. But you aren’t in the UK, I know.
[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“niaoahgin”]
On the other hand, many schools have signed contracts (sans demo) with folks completely unable to fulfill the requirements of their position, thus necessitating the standard practice of demo teaching. You might be surprised at how terribly some people teach (with no experience, training, or propensity for teaching whatsoever), despite their stated interest in pursuing teaching as a career. I speak from my experience of evaluating both native-speaking and local teachers of English. If you don’t have the experience, skills, or passion for ESL/EFL, please consider another path in life.[/quote]
Was the OP really asking for your advice on his path in life? If not, then maybe you don’t need to offer it. [/quote]
Whether or not (s)he was asking for life advice, the rationale for a demo for teaching should be well understood. Some native speakers are able to control/entertain/teach a class for 10 or 15 minutes, but would be unable to sustain a session of more than an hour. If that is what is required of the teacher, the demo would be a learning experience for both the teacher and administration. Can you understand why more than just juggling and fire-breather are required for most long-term, contracted jobs, BigJohn? My two cents were offered for anyone who would turn down a PAID demo for any reason (other than legal issues), if you can read the fine print.
For those who argue that “demo lessons” are bad, have you tried to apply for any job (above the level of sales rep) that does not require a work sample, references, or demo of your abilities?
Congratulations! A 30 minute demo (paid or unpaid) should be sufficient to assess the abilities, adaptability, and authenticity of a teacher. You obviously have what it takes to be successful in your career, part of which is calling “bullshit” on unscrupulous bosses. Remember that you are also assessing the school in terms of how comfortable you would be teaching there. I sincerely wish you the best of luck at your new job!
Have experienced this recently as well.
My wife was asked to demo for a teaching job recently (an hour’s demo) which seemed reasonable enough if a little long. My rationale is that when I’ve interviewed for any job (outside teaching) I would not expect to get paid to attend an interview. In fact if you know anyone who has ever been paid to go to interview I’d like to meet them. That interview may well last more than an hour depending on the job. If they really liked me they might even call me back for a second interview. I would still not expect to get paid for a second interview.
I realise that alot of places here might well be taking the piss, and yes a demo is more involved than an interview, so when the guy asked my wife to later do a second demo to a different class (to assess ability on different class levels he said) we told him no and I now strongly suspect he was just looking for a free sub. So what we ‘lost’ was an hour of her time plus travel.
However the point remains that sometimes you have to do these things on faith and throwing a hissy fit and refusing to do ANY demos at all unless you were paid would make you seem like a spoilt brat IMHO.
I have never had to do a demo for any real teaching job, be it here, Australia, or the U.K. People at professional establishments understand that a fifteen minute demo, even a one lesson demo, is not going to be indicative of much other than one’s ability to put on a good demo. They’re looking for professional teachers, not performing monkeys.
I wouldn’t expect to get paid for a demo because I wouldn’t expect to do a demo because I wouldn’t be interviewing for the kinds of jobs that insist upon a demo. Just because unprofessionalism is the norm here doesn’t make it acceptable.
GuyInTaiwan, you may well be right. At the top establishments you may not need to do a demo. Especially if you have a rock solid CV, plenty of experience and good references. (Sounds like you’re at that level so hat’s off to you). But I’m guessing that not everyone teaching in Tawian (or anywhere for that matter) has those.
I recently listened to a podcast interview with Jay Leno where he said that when he was starting out he used to go into bars, slap down a fifty dollar bill and say to the manager ‘let me tell jokes for 20 minutes and if I empty the place or annoy the customers you can keep the fifty’. I’m guessing he doesn’t need to do that now…
Everyone has to start somewhere, even at the peforming monkey level.
I am not condoning long demos or unpaid work by any means but as long as you go into these things with your eyes open then it’s a personal choice.
[quote=“pungnan”]GuyInTaiwan, you may well be right. At the top establishments you may not need to do a demo. Especially if you have a rock solid CV, plenty of experience and good references. (Sounds like you’re at that level so hat’s off to you). But I’m guessing that not everyone teaching in Tawian (or anywhere for that matter) has those.
I recently listened to a podcast interview with Jay Leno where he said that when he was starting out he used to go into bars, slap down a fifty dollar bill and say to the manager ‘let me tell jokes for 20 minutes and if I empty the place or annoy the customers you can keep the fifty’. I’m guessing he doesn’t need to do that now…
Everyone has to start somewhere, even at the peforming monkey level.
I am not condoning long demos or unpaid work by any means but as long as you go into these things with your eyes open then it’s a personal choice.[/quote]
pungnan: I am in a different situation to most people because I am a certified teacher working within a different system (government schools, though I’ve also worked at a buxiban and kindy, and done plenty of privates).
I’m playing the long game, however. I believe that a not insignificant segment, and perhaps the major segment, of the buxiban industry is a massive scam. Of course, people should inform themselves, be they potential “teachers” or parents. However, the status quo is that the buxiban industry serves as a way for many laoban to syphon money off people in very questionable ways for very questionable results often by manipulating people’s lack of knowledge (both customers and employees) or lack of power (employees). There are a whole lot of established practices (such as these inane demos) that are detrimental to the long term educational results of individual Taiwanese people and the nation collectively. Then there are the effects these things have on the employees and the flow on effects of those on the wider society.
It’s all very well to say that this is just how it is, and I understand that people also need to earn a living and they are up against “the system” if they want to change it (although I also fought Hess, and won, more than four years ago). However, if many of the business practices in this country occurred within our countries of origin, there’d be outrage. Likewise, if the educational practices (including hiring unqualified people and not requiring police background checks, to mention just two things on a very long list) and outcomes occurred in our countries of origin, there’d also be outrage. I wonder how many people who work in such places would be happy to have their own children (if/when they have them, if they don’t already) attend such places, here or in their countries of origin. Yet all of this is accepted as the status quo because “it’s Taiwan”. That’s cultural relativism at its absolute worst.
The great irony in this is that I’m one of this site’s most right wing posters (at least on economic issues, though also on many social issues), yet I’m also one of the most vocal that “business as usual” is not good business. The system, any system, will never change unless people admit that things are unacceptable and try to change them.
GuyInTaiwan, I think we’re careering off-topic at a rate of knots here and this is a topic you are clearly way more qualified to talk on than I, so will leave it by saying I agree completely with most of your last post.
‘Business as usual’ is rarely a good excuse for poor/shoddy practices but that is hardly something confined to Taiwan.
I also agree it’s dangerous to say ‘well that’s just the way things are here’ as an excuse for sticking with the status quo even when it’s patently broken
But, I personally learned the hard way that people don’t generally appreciate/react welll to being told that the way they’re running things sucks and that you often have more success working to change things by being really good at what you do and showing that it is not bad business sense to do things the right way…
pungnan: Sure. At the risk of going off topic again in another way, I don’t think it’s really worth being good at what is done within the buxiban system. It’s fundamentally broken. Reform from within is not really that possible because too many people have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Eventually, it will get to a crisis point, and then things may be forced to change.