19 Year Old Canadian... Dual National/Dual Citizen

Legal Dual Nationality
1

Hello there everyone,

I’ve been reading this forum up and down, through and through, trying to find out what I need to know to become a citizen of Taiwan, however, there is very little help for my case.

I’m currently 18 years old living in Taiwan, I have been here since Jan. 2 2006, and have been living here with an ARC for almost a year. I will be up for my first renewal on Apr. 30.

The reason I’m here is because of joining family. HOWEVER, my family is NOT Taiwanese. My mother is a foreigner here as well, although it might be quite hard to convince her to give up her citizenship, I am willing to do it, to gain citizenship in Taiwan through naturalization.
I know that someone is going to mention the fact that I will have to go to Millitary, but I have no problems with that.

I have already graduated from University, HOWEVER, my degrees will NOT be recognized by ROC gov’t, because of the age that I graduated from University (17). So this will lead to another problem when I have to renew my paperwork when I turn 20.

However, I would like to know now, if it is possible for me to give up my Canadian citizenship, and then become a Taiwanese citizen? Before I turn 20?
My 19th birthday is coming soon, April 30, and I would really like to know more information.

I’m currently living in PingZhen City (close to ZhongLi City) in TaoYuan County. My Chinese isn’t bad, as I try to teach myself as much as possible, however, my Chinese isn’t at a level for communicating what I want (which it to become a citizen). I know where all the proper offices are for the city, and for the county, but just need some help with what I need to ask for, and such.

Also, I read that no Canadian has become Taiwanese through Naturalization. If this is false, if the person who DID do this could please contact me, I’d love to know more. IF they kept Canadian citizenship.
I did some reading on some Canadian Citizenship Law… and here’s a nice little thing to look at…

[quote]Citizenship Act
PART II: LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP
Renunciation of citizenship
9. (1) A citizen may, on application, renounce his citizenship if he

(a) is a citizen of a country other than Canada or, if his application is accepted, will become a citizen of a country other than Canada;

(b) is not the subject of a declaration by the Governor in Council made pursuant to section 20;

(c) is not a minor;

(d) is not prevented from understanding the significance of renouncing citizenship by reason of the person having a mental disability; and

(e) does not reside in Canada.

Ministerial discretion to waive requirements
(2) The Minister may, in the Minister’s discretion, waive on compassionate grounds the requirements of paragraph (1)(d) or (e).

Certificate of renunciation
(3) Where an application for renunciation is approved, the Minister shall issue a certificate of renunciation to the applicant and the applicant ceases to be a citizen after the expiration of the day on which the certificate is issued or such later day as the certificate may specify.

R.S., 1985, c. C-29, s. 9; 1992, c. 21, s. 8.

[/quote]

What I want to know from this is:

How does the certificate work? Does this mean that the certificate is post-dated, so as to give me a certain amount of time to repeal my decision of renouncing my citizenship?
I will try to contact a lawyer, who hopefully will be able to help me (for free laughs good luck, heh?)… find out the answers to this strange law.

There is also some new changed been made to the Citizenship Act, and I’m not sure how this will affect renunciation. If anyone knows what is happening with this, please also contact me.

What kind of things are there required to become a citizen?
I know that I have to have lived here for 5 years, but what happens if I am a minor, do those rules still apply?
My mother has been living here for almost 9 years, if I can convince her to go through the Naturalization process, can we both apply at the same time, even if this means that when I’m 20 I’ll still be in the middle of the process?

A little off-topic question
What kind of things can I do being under-age in Taiwan? and being a foreigner (for now)…?

Is it possible to get a work - permit?

What kinds of work-permits are there?

Back on topic
I also remember reading that if you are NOT married to a Taiwanese person (which will never happen, I’m gay), that you need to have a job that is can’t remember the wording … necesary for Taiwan?

Does anyone have a list of occupations that would be acceptable?

IF I do give up my Canadian citizenship (as I am of the legal age in Canada), WHAT would happen if I was in Taiwan like this? CAN they kick me out of the country? and if so… where do I go? What kind of possibilities are there for me down this road?
Please don’t tell me … you won’t know until you try… because that’s a road I’d like to take some caution with before I attempt (or until I have no other possibilities)…

Living here under my mother, does that count toward the 5 (or 7) years for the requirements of Naturalization? WITH / WITHOUT having an ARC?

Do I need to have a job for all 5/7 years? or do I just have to prove the last year previous to my application?

I know I seem really eager to do this, and it can make me suffer in some ways, however, I’m doing my best.

Again off-topic
Does anyone know if I can put a house into my name… at my age? If so, what do I need to do in order to do this (having a co-signer who is Taiwanese is also fine) but I remember that the requirements are 5M in property value? I live in a brand-new neighbourhood, and I’m sure that it’s worth more than 5M, I just have to have my name somewhere on some documents, correct?

I’m sorry for floating all over the place, it’s a litle exciting for me.

I would love to meet with anyone who has already done this process and has an ROC ID. Apaprt from wanting to see it, I just really have a sense of respect for you (I tend to hate most foreigners in this country)… It was almost shocking to think that there were other people in this country who didn’t regard it as just a place for sex/drugs/money or the many other frivelous things that foreigners want it to be … sigh …

I hate being asked if I’m from the US. It really makes me want to kill some people, I always tell them that I’m Taiwanese, and they think that I don’t understand the question they asked me. I want to make this a real life option for me. If I have to give up my Canadian citizenship, I suppose it’s a small price, however, I’m still quite young, and just want to know what kind of reprocussions this will have on me.

I appreciate any and ALL help that I can get…

Sincerely,

Irshaad Bijan Adatia

gao-yu-shan
(Tall-rainy-mountain)
–Yes, this is a REAL chinese name–

P.S>> Why doesn’t this board allow Chinese characters? It would really help all of us IN Taiwan, rather than pinyin, which makes me go crazy as well :wink: … ciao~~

2

  1. The board doesn’t disallow Chinese characters–they show up from time to time–but it’s primarily for foreigners, of whom a minority are literate in Chinese.

  2. Shrink that avatar!

  3. You’re here to join your mom, but she’s not Taiwanese. Is she married or working? Have you looked into the possibility of being sponsored by her?

  4. If you give up Canadian citizenship, Taiwan’s still free to kick you out. You’ll be a stateless person, so they’ll probably send you to wherever you arrived from. Whether or not they’ll let you in, I don’t know. You might end up stuck in the airport for months. Usually, if you give up Canadian citizenship, I believe you can take it up again later, but definitely look into it. And if you don’t have to, it’s easier and cheaper to travel on a Canadian passport than Taiwanese.

3

You graduated from University at the age of 17? wow Or is that just High School in Canada?

You want to get Taiwanese citizenship partly because people call you foreigner, and worse, an American? You are a foreigner and you tell people you are Taiwanese? Question, is your dad Taiwanese?

You hope your mom can give up her citizenship too? Damn. Things in the Great White North looking that bad, eh?

To each their own I guess. Welcome to the boards.

4

You wacky Canadians…

5

You obtained more than one degree by the age of 17?

Regarding renouncing your Canadian citizenship — I believe you can do that pretty easily and obtain the certificate that the Taiwanese authorities need. Since getting naturalization in Taiwan can take longer than 6 months, you can automaticaly get back your Canadian citizenship, if you are still stateless at the end of the six months.

All you need to provide the Taiwanese authorities with is a statement showing that you have renounced your Canadian citizenship. By taking your time with the Taiwanese paperwork, you can cleverly re-obtain your Canadian citizenship. Of course, this loophole hasn’t been used by too many people.

I believe this is talked about in more detail within this thread:

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 8&start=10

Of course, I don’t think this approach has ever been tried in Taiwan for Canadians.

6

Answers to some of your questions, and in some response…

I’m not sure if I was clear on this or not… I ALREADY have an ARC based on my mother… that is not what I’m asking about…

As for giving up Canadian citizenship, and getting it back due to being stateless… are you sure about that? I’ve read that topic over and over again, to no avail, they are also looking for some answer

When I’m called an American, they automatically are categorizing me into a group of stereotypes which I’m not a part of.

No, my father is not Taiwanese… He’s from Kenya/India.

I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Chemistry, and Bachelor of Science in Psychology, both from the University of Calgary. And it’s extremely rare to do that in any country, so NO it’s not High School… and yes, College is different from University … ~_~* … some people…

Any help with anything else, please …

–Bijan

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If your mother is naturalized while you are still an unmarried minor then you can apply for naturalization at the same time. (Nationality Act Article 7)

If you mother is naturalized and you later apply for naturalization while still a minor, then you do not need to prove sufficient income/assets, minimum residence time, or language ability, only that you have a clean criminal record. (Nationality Act Article 4, Paragraph 2)

In any other case, you may not be naturalized if under 20 years old. (Nationality Act Article 3)

If you apply for naturalization while not a minor but your mother is a citizen, your residence requirement is cut to 183 days for each of 3 consecutive years prior to application. (Nationality Act Article 4)

Residency time is based on presence in the ROC while holding an ARC or APRC. (Enforcement Rules of the Nationality Act Article 4) Residence time does not qualify for ARCs held for the following reasons: 1) blue collar work 2) attending school 3) relative of foreigner or stateless person. (Enforcement Rules of the Nationality Act Article 5)

You must have sufficient assets or income to qualify. Income requirement is pretty low, at twice the minimum wage, so 15840 X 2 = 31680. Otherwise you need $5 million in total assets of which just about anything can qualify as long as it is in your name and the value can be somehow proven. (Enforcement Rules of the Nationality Act Article 7)

If you and your mother can be naturalized while you are a minor then that seems to be the easiest way. Otherwise you will need to obtain an ARC not dependent on your mother and gain at least 3 years residency on that, including sufficient income or assets.

8

Maybe I did not read your post carefully enough, but the reason for you to wanting become a Taiwanese citizen is hating to be called foreigner or American by Taiwanese people? Sorry, but that seems silly to me… I am European and often called American or Russian. Sure it gets on ones nerves, but that’s about it… I doubt that having a Taiwanese passport will change anything, you still look like a foreigner and therefore they will still call you what ever they want to call you, but it’s unlikely to be “Taiwanese”.
On the other hand, no matter what your reasons, you are still young and even though you might be clever having graduated from Uni at an early age, but you’ve only lived in Taiwan for a year, are you sure you have seen it all yet? Are you sure this is what you want?
I assume you will have a few more years to think about this, cause as far as I read before you have to live in Taiwan for more than one year to become a citizen…
Good luck

9

I have to second that.

BAs in Chem and psych and you want to give up your Canadian citizenship and live in Taiwan?

What possible benefit is there for you to do this?

jdstumped

I really would worry too much about being categorized here. We are all foreigners. Talk to some ABCs. They have it far worse than what you describe.

10

Well…

There are several reasons for me wanting to become Taiwanese. The major reason for me, would be that this is pretty much my culture, what I’m used to, what I’ve grown up with, with several more advantages. I don’t primarliy want to become Taiwanese to revoke the fact that I’m a ‘foreigner’ and will look like one here. That I can live with, I have to deal with it every day, however, my family lives here (mother/aunt/uncle/cousins)… pretty much the mother’s side of the family. My mother is getting married soon, and it doesn’t look as though she’ll be leaving anytime soon. I know that I’ve only lived here for 1 year, but I do know a lot about the culture, and how thing work here. It’s almost exactly the same as what I grew up with. My family that I grew up with is Asian, no ‘yellow’ but ‘brown’. So I know how politics and all that great junk works.

When I was in Canada, I was consistantly being disregarded for my age. I had to have special permission from the government to be allowed to own my own property, and that was just hell. I don’t fit into the culture there, the work isn’t worth my time, or the pay, and I don’t have anything there that would make me want to stay there.

I plan to continue to look for the laws considering Canadian citizenship, and becoming stateless, if I will be able to just continue being Canadian (after a 6 month period)… if anyone has any information regarding this, please contact me, as this would be what my mother would want, if I’m going to have to convince her to go along with this.

I just came back from the Household registration office, and they also told me the same information, and now I will have to constantly barrage my mother with questions, and see if she is willing to do this.
I’m also going to be transferring the name of this house into my name. Which will put me in the green for asset requirements.

Here’s a question that got the people at the office a little confused… and was wondering of others insight…

When we’re both in the naturalization process… what happens when I turn 20? Am i still allowed to continue the process because I started before 20? How does all of this work?

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Does anyone know anything about ‘buying citizenships’?? I know it’s possible, I just want to know how much, and if anyone has the contacts…

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Last question: If there’s another Taoyuan happy hour will you PLEASE come? :slight_smile:

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It is possible in some emerging economies such as the Dominican Republic to obtain citizenship in exchange for substantial investment. I’d suggest subscribing to the Ascot Advisory Newsletter to learn more about this in general:

ascotadvisory.com/News_Bulletin/

Article 6 of the Nationality Act allows for ROC nationality to be granted to those who have made ‘special contributions to the ROC’ but as far as I know this is not common.

13

I believe Poagao managed it by being adopted by a citizen family here, while he was about your age.

14

TaoYuan Happy Hour?? This is … ?

What does being adopted entail? I’m not quite sure how this would go over with the family though… giving up their rights… I think my father wouldn’t do it just to spite me…

I’m sure that buying citizenships isn’t very common but you can buy Canadian / US / British for around 50 000$ (US… I believe)… so I suppose that it shouldn’t be too difficult to do this in Taiwan either. I just wanted to know if anyone here had done it, as to point me in the right direction.

Anyways… looking forward to more …

~~Bijan 高雨山

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[quote=“jdsmith”]Last question: If there’s another Taoyuan happy hour will you PLEASE come? :slight_smile:[/quote]Just curious…what is the legal age for going into bars on Taiwan? Is there any? I really don’t know.

As to “buying” a US citizenship…no, I don’t think thats possible.

Some famous people have been granted 'Honorary" US citizenship.
But thats something I don’t think there is a price tag on.

I’d be interested to see something official that disputes this.

16

Legal bar age in Taiwan is 18, I’ve been to more than my share…

And buying US citizenship, is very possible, I’ve got US citizenship by doing that. I’m not sure what legal routes there are for that, however, I’ve got it…so there obviously must’ve been a way…

高雨山

17

I believe he is referring to the fact that people can become Canadian citizens or US citizens if they invest a certain amount of money in these countries. I’ve met plenty of Taiwanese who are Canadians because they invested money there. They did essentially ‘buy’ their Canadian citizenship, but of course the Canadian government does not refer to it officially as such.

18

You can buy your way into Canada or the US with sufficient amounts of investment money, but then there’s that dreaded “immigration jail” (a popular Cantonese term 移民監) that one must “endure” to actually get citizenship (3 years in jail for Canada, 5 years for the US).

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[quote=“anime4tw”]Legal bar age in Taiwan is 18, I’ve been to more than my share…[/quote]Thanks, I didn’t know what the legal age is. Itbounced around in the US quite a bit and there are some differences state to state. I have lived incountries where it was as low as 0 yrs to as high as 21 to get in the door.

[quote=“anime4tw”][b]And buying US citizenship, is very possible, I’ve got US citizenship by doing that. I’m not sure what legal routes there are for that, however, I’ve got it…so there obviously must’ve been a way…
高雨山[/quote]Well, here you are saying this again. I’ll ask again, what is the procedure for doing this?
How did you do this - gain US citizenship by “buying” it?
What are/is the “obvious way”?
Thanks.

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I didn’t mean to say that there is an OBVOIUS WAY to do it … but it is able to be done, and I didn’t spend any time in Jail to do it either.

Anways… I’m still trying to convince the mother to give up her citizenship along with mine…

-Bijan