Uhm, ROC never governed HK. There is no ROC, let alone KMT legacy, on HK.
HK was under Japanese occupation and the Japanese left no positive impression on the people of HK.
The Chinese people of HK at least got their history straight and Hong Kong Reparation Association is petitioning Japan for their occupation from 1941 to 1945.
home.netvigator.com/~hkra2002/
Too bad no one on Taiwan is doing the same.
Because some interpret 228 to include the deaths of BSR well after the riot incidents. Letâs examine the reason for the death of the elites of BSR on Taiwan, especially those involve in the 228 investigation committee.
Here are some of the 32 reforms and 10 demands; I believe would be interpreted by the ROC officials as threat to ROC sovereignty on Taiwan.
[quote]1) More than two-thirds of the Commissioners shall be appointed from those who have lived in this Province for more than ten years. (It is most desirable that such persons only shall be appointed to the Secretariat and to the Departments of Civil Affairs, Finance, Industry and Mining, Agriculture and Forestry, Education, and Police Affairs.)
The posts of the Commissioner for the Department of Police Affairs, and of directors for all prefectural or municipal Police Bureaus ought to be filled by Formosans. The special armed police contingents and the armed police maintained by the Railway Department and the Department of Industry and Mining shall be abolished immediately.
Arrest or confinement of a political nature shall be prohibited.
All chiefs of local courts of justice and all chief prosecutors in all local courts of justice shall be Formosans.
The majority of judges, prosecutors and other court staff members shall be Formosans.
Managers in charge of all public enterprises shall be Formosans.
A Committee for Inspecting Public Enterprises, elected by the people, shall be established. The disposal of Japanese properties shall be entirely entrusted to the Provincial Government. A Committee for management of industries taken over from the Japanese shall be established. Formosans shall be appointed to more than half of these Committee posts.
As many Formosans as possible shall be appointed to Army, Navy, and Air Force posts on Formosa.
The Garrison Headquarters must be abolished to avoid the misuse of military privilege. [/quote]
As you can see the 32 demands were really using the riots as blackmail to wrestle control of Taiwan. No where in the demands were any real solutions to the causes the 228 incident, bad policing protocols, and education of the BSR respect of ROC laws.
The BSR goals were to fill up the Taiwan government and military with individual with questionable loyalty to ROC. It is no surprised people involved in this were killed and suppressed. No government in the modern world would enact these kinds of reforms after a riot.
Baring this in mind what kind of message is being sent to the WSR population on Taiwan when celebrating 228? Is this a holiday to commemorate the military police action on possible warlords on Taiwan.
Were these committee member as innocent as the current narrative claim? These demands donât sound like a good starting point to ensure political equality or selecting the best leaders for a new country.
You mistranslated the Taiwanese demands on purpose! I want to see the Taiwanese or Japanese text of the demands!
AC_dropout:
I think it would be very beneficial if you would quote page numbers in the Li Ao book (or other sources you have). That might make the fanatical TIers here a little more willing to listen to your position (except for Masaotakoshi ⊠he still doesnât know if heâs Japanese, Taiwanese, or whatever).
[quote=âLittleBuddhaTWâ]AC_dropout:
I think it would be very beneficial if you would quote page numbers in the Li Ao book (or other sources you have). That might make the fanatical TIers here a little more willing to listen to your position (except for Masaotakoshi ⊠he still doesnât know if heâs Japanese, Taiwanese, or whatever).[/quote]
Who exactly are you referring to when you say âfanatical TIers here ⊠(except for Masaotakoshi)â?
Selective quoting of the 32 demands, ac. A large numebr are to do with taxation, monopoly and corruption issues - the very things that caused the uprising.
I would say that the majority do this. If you are interpreting â228â to mean the events on that day, and before 3/03, then perhaps (just perhaps) more WSR (soldiers, corrupt officials and carpet0baggers) were killed. But why do you stop before 3/03? It was on, and shortly after March 3 that the vast majority were killed, and they were almost entirely BSR.
Brian
Bu Lai En,
That is correct I only selected the demands which could be interpreted as a items which would threaten the soveriegnty of ROC on Taiwan. Leading officials to believe they were dealing with traitors/warlords and not peaceful reformers.
Letâs examine last demand in the list of 32,
This is basically a request to release anyone that opposed the ROC authority, no matter their motive. Is this a demand from a peaceful activist or a demand from someone who just won a war?
This of course led to the leadership and their followers to be executed/assassinated/murdered.
[quote]1) A uniform Progressive Income Tax shall be levied. No other sundry taxes shall be levied except the Luxury Tax and the Inheritance Tax.
There are only 2 demands out of 32 which deal with Taxation and Monopoly.
The corruption issue is not really touched upon in the demands.
If we start with the premise that the 32 demands were to resolve corruption, then the solution among the committee members was to replace everyone in power with a âFormosan.â However, given the fact that most of ROC today is run by a âformosanâ and corruption is still an issue in our government, we can see that this is no solution at all.
The premise I am forwarding on the 32 demands is that with the public knowledge of ROC losing USA military support on the mainland the elites on Taiwan try to do a power grab with the 32 demands, which lead to their demise.
Because after 3/03 these are other phases in this horrible event and they deserves a fairer narrative then just âKMT wholesale slaughter of BSR.â
[quote=âLittleBuddhaTWâ]AC_dropout:
I think it would be very beneficial if you would quote page numbers in the Li Ao book (or other sources you have). [/quote]
formosa.org/~taiwanpg/app1b.htm
Above is link the English translation of the 32 demands I am currently discussing with other members here.
Are we planning to make this thread into a Li Ao book club? 
[quote]There are only 2 demands out of 32 which deal with Taxation and Monopoly.
The corruption issue is not really touched upon in the demands. [/quote]
I said taxation, monopoly and corruptioj issues. That is basically the whole third section.
[quote]III. Reforms required to ensure a revision and liberalization of economic policy, and a reform of economic administration
Section 1 deals with native representation and section 2 with policing and justice. These three sections make up 24 of the 32 demands. The whole list of demands is here:
romanization.com/books/formo ⊠ndix1.html
So the reformers wanted:
1: More representation in government.
2: Reform of policing and courts.
3: Reform of taxes, monopolies and large-scale corruption.
They were not demanding independence or anything like that.
[quote]Quote:
Bu Lai En: But why do you stop before 3/03? It was on, and shortly after March 3 that the vast majority were killed, and they were almost entirely BSR.
ac: Because after 3/03 these are other phases in this horrible event and they deserves a fairer narrative then just âKMT wholesale slaughter of BSR.â[/quote]
Youâre not making sense here. The vast majority of those killed in the 228 incident were killed on and after March 3. And they were almost entirely BSR. Iâm trying to see if your ludicrous claim that the majority killed in the 228 incident is based on;
A) Framing the â228 incidentâ to only include events prior to March 3, or
B) Including the arrival of ROC troops form China on March 3 and the subsequent crackdown, but then arguing that the majority killled were WSR.
So which is it?
Brian
Thereâs a series of 10 comic books available at Eslite/Caves/Page One. Itâs called âć°çŁæŒ«ç«ćČâ. It goes into a lot of detail about the âWhite Terrorâ and 2-28.
Not only does it have itâs token Taiwanese innocent victim (which actually made me cry - a grown man with a comic book at Starbucks⊠how pathetic), but it also shows the angry Taiwanese mobs pulling people aside to see if they could speak Japanese; if they couldnât, they were dead meat.
Interestingly, the comic books are sold in public elementary schools as extracurricular reading. The book was put together by history professors from Tai-Da, Shi-Da and other universities.
[quote]III. Reforms required to ensure a revision and liberalization of economic policy, and a reform of economic administration
What are you talking about? The demands were asking for undemocratic appointments to be effective in 2 weeks or so. Elections were set up for a time frame of 3 months. How does making Formosan appointments solve the corruption issue.
It also deals with the dissolving for certain government bodies and restricting ROC authority on Taiwan.
[quote]1: More representation in government.
2: Reform of policing and courts.
3: Reform of taxes, monopolies and large-scale corruption.
They were not demanding independence or anything like that.[/quote]
Once you restrict ROC authority and replace many of the key ROC authority position with Formosan of questionable loyality to the ROC, it can only be interpreted as seeking independence and not abiding by ROC laws nor respecting ROC political mechanism to achieve a political goal.
Usually we would call these reformers the 5th column or simply traitors.
⊠especially at that time, when CCP was actively recruiting in Taiwan and there were TW CCP underground organizations operating.
Itâs funny to me how the leading advocate of Taiwanese independece and staunch hater of the CCP, Lee Teng-hui, was at one time a member of the Communist party himself. From Communist, to KMT leader and president of the ROC, to âspiritual leaderâ of the TSU and supporter of Taiwanese independence. How many times can a leopard change its spots?
At least one more time than you mention. He was a Japanese âeliteâ before all that, too.
Once again LTH is proof that 228 and white terror were not about wholesale slaughter of BSR, or Japanese Quislings, or CPP on Taiwan.
If that was the case how did LTH survive that era?
It was truly a time when the government did successfully try to defend Taiwan from enemies of the state, as the government perceived them.
I think thatâs stretching it a bit. There are disputes about various aspects of the âincident,â but it canât be denied that a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the KMT.
[quote=âac_dropoutâ]Once again LTH is proof that 228 and white terror were not about wholesale slaughter of BSR, or Japanese Quislings, or CPP on Taiwan.
If that was the case how did LTH survive that era? [/quote]
Iâll take this incredulous statement from the pile of others just to show the asisine logic at play in your statements.
âwholesale slaughterâ means in large quantities or extensively killing of the groups, not the annihilation of said groups. See the difference? Which means in your perverse argument, LTH could have survived, and therefore proof of nothing.
No oneâs disputing that in CKSâs and Chen Yiâs perverted little minds this is exactly what they were doing.
What most other people have realized, actually everyone but you and select KMT members, is that what the government thinks and what the populace/morality thinks are two often completely separate things. Anything else to add to the conversation?
This thread has been diluted into a series of endless off-tangent rants and ludicrous statements of beliefâŠ
Thatâs what AC is good at! 
228 is nothing compared to living in Chinese colonial HKSAR.
In order to understand 228, we need to understand the social situations prior to 228. To be objective about this issue, a lot of informations are available. I will suggest informations from international news(romanization.com/books/formo ⊠index.html)has collected informations from different sources. None of them claims any communist activities. As a victim family of KMTâs looting, I would like to share our family experience with you. During that time, Chiang Kai-Shek had appointed most of positions to his relatives. Mrs. Chiangâs brother was the Minister of Finace. His people came to my grandfatherâs jewelry store with gold bars and asked for US dollars in exchange. Knowing Taiwanese trained to obey laws under Japanese ruling, they told our family Taiwan was Chinese world that they didnât need to worry about the Japanese law, for exchanging US dollars was forbidden under Japanese rule. However, they later claimed it was illegal after my family did what they asked for. The store was taken over by the KMT, and my father went to jail for years in my grandfatherâs place. At the end, they could not find a charge so they finally let him go free. My father was in early twenties, and my parents didnât get married until my father was 30. A lot of jewelry stores were involved as well. To Taiwanese in 80s, they may remember this â???â, and it had been a secret in my memory. For talking anything related to 228 was not allowed under the martial law. My mother mentioned a lot about the time of visiting my father in jail while my sisters were young, but I did not learn about this until days after my fatherâs funeral. It may seem history to talk about 228 to you, but to me the pains my father suffered remains in my heart whenever Taiwan issue shows up in the news. May some film makers be interested in directing the âFormosa Betrayedâ into a play or movie, then you will understand 228 through an objective view.