2-28

Very true. But Taiwan is not the only place guilty of this, albeit it might be true that only here is the general population so abosolutely ignorant of their own history. But this is because of other political purposes, and nothing to do with green politicization.

Comparing KMT hiding and DPP hiding is like comparing a budgie and an emu. Both are birds, but two completely different animals.

It is certain that many WSR died as well, but how exactly are you defining many, and where do you get the right to say the various inquiries into it are all wrong? I should remind you that it was LTH’s government (thats BLUE) that started the modern inquiry, and not a thing to do with some DPP construction as you allude.

Using the number of victims who received compensation is flawed for the same reason there is no WSR figure. It only includes the victims/families who could prove or otherwise 'guanxi their way into the money.

Memorial, perhaps, but then most aren’t confused anyways because they have no idea what you’d be talking about.

Note that I’m advocating that 228 should be a memorial for Taiwan (thats black blue green pink and everyone else you can think of), lest the future generations forget, AND to let the current generations know the real story of Taiwan, especially all those rosy historical politicians’ true stories.

It was most definitely not some construct of A-Bians, so quit with the ridiculous insinuations already. You might as well start advocating Kim Il-Jong is a great guy too. If your history lessons solely come from TT and politicians speeches, you two have far bigger problems to worry about.

Freakin’ Amazing,

In the USA there is a Martin Luther King day, in rememberance of the evils of slavery and in a larger context reinterpreted to as a symbol equality in USA for all.

Note that the USA did not make a Malcolm X day, a black civil rights leader in the same time period, who advocated a black militant solution to the race issue in the USA, who also died by assassination.

What some of us are questioning, and quite legitmately, is the wisdom behind the 228 holiday. There’s the right way of doing it which is to bring the society together and idolize a “healer.” And there is the wrong way of doing it and use it as a political tool to forever demonized another political party and people of WSR descent.

Also note in the 228 was instigated by a tax evader, in parallel Rosa Park broke the law by refusing to sit at the back of a public bus thus starting the “black civil rights movement” in the USA, but is not idolized or made into a holiday in the USA. One should not glorify people and events which will divide a country is what some of us are advocating.

Yes well AC perhaps that’s because Ms Parks wasn’t rounded up with all her fellow family members and executed for challenging unjust laws.

Many people in the 2/28 were executed simply because they had been educated by the Japanese. Many of the civil leaders were murdered because of this alone.

So tax evaders should be murdered because the regime of the day gets upset? The 2/28 was buried by the KMT who really tried to say that it never happened and that compensation should not have been paid.

The KMT of the past were nothing more than glorified gangsters. Many aboriginals were slaughtered because they would not accept the Chinese as the master race, and also had their lands appropriated by the KMT.

They have never been compensated for this.

Why should the inhabitants of this country not know their own history. Learning and accepting one’s history often brings people together. It’s called reconciliation, a term I’m sure you never use.

sat tv, i totally agree with ya mate

Uhm, they were rounded up from Africa and sold as slaves, if they survived that long to breed in the new world that is… :noway:

They were executed / killed for organizing riots and civil disobedience. One could take the view that punishment was harsh, but given the circumstance of what goes on in a post-war zone, like Iraq, not out of the ordinary.

The aboriginals were driven into the mountains long before KMT ever arrived on the island. The KMT also started the land reform on Taiwan that was the cornerstone to the economic prosperity of Taiwan.

The DPP just recently bulldozed a few aboriginal settlements when CSB came back into power. Not to mention the DPP VP Lu recommended the aboriginals all move to South America.

If you blame the KMT for creating pop stars like A-mei, as a disservice to Taiwan, then the DPP are many times worst than the KMT with their Hoklo chauvinist agenda when it comes to ethnic relations on Taiwan in this regard.

The biggest piece of propaganda lie stemming from 228. The woman didn’t die in 228, another bystander was shot by accident when mobs of BSR surrounded the tax collector and threaten him. The officer brandished his gun to keep the mob at bay. The gun discharged and a bystander that was just “rubber necking” got killed.

Basically the moral of the tale of 228, BSR are racist hypocrites for having no problems paying the Tobacco and Alcohol tax that the Japanese introduced the colony. However, when the KMT inherits this taxation system from the Japanese, it becomes a big brew hahaha about injustice and a holiday to demonize the KMT.

This (and most fo the rest of your post) is pure bullshit.

Some organised rebellion against the KMT and paid the price. The vast majority of those slaughtered had done nothing more than get themselves educated, or be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You sound like someone saying that the Jews killed by Hitler were killed for for rioting against that government (and not that many were killed anyway, and many Nazis died too).

Brian

That was after 2/28. And they weren’t killed for being educated. It was their dissent that did them in. KMT didn’t go kill the so-called “cream of the crop” of Taiwanese (according to TI) so that one ethnic group could be dominated. KMT jailed anybody who dissented and made examples out of intellectuals, Taiwanese or not. The misleading ethnic innuendo has got to stop (not you, but in general).

So I just noticed this. Is there ANY evidence for this?

Also, some people like to use 2/28 against the KMT or PFP, pointing out that, say, James Soong was “part of the system.” I just point out that people who say that are hypocrites if they’ve ever supported anybody who worked with the KMT and not against it; case in point: LTH, a loyal KMT hack doing the bidding of Chiang for years. Just because the politics of Soong and LTH are different now does not make a difference in how they were both “part of the system.”

[quote=“ac_dropout”] A complete load of bullshit as per usuall. [/quote] Just wandering if you ever got further than the two pages devoted to the ‘incident’ in the KMT history syllabus you studied at school?

I usually take 2/28 to mean the rebellion, and subsequent supression, not just the day itself.

That’s simply untrue. Many were killed from the vague suspicion that as educated members of society they might be leaders of dissent. Many others were executed for having been somehow associated with those who participated in the rebellion. There weren’t trials of suspects to sort out ‘dissentes’ fromt he rest. This was wholesale massacre of anyone who might be against them (plus more to put the fear up the rest).

That’s exactly what they did do.

True, except for those that they killed. When I say ‘Taiwanese’, I don’t just mean Hokkien. They killed Hakka, Aboriginals and Chinese too.

Brian

Ok, but at some point it was not directly 2/28 related any more. I mean KMT’s suppression of intellectuals to control political dissent did not begin with 2/28 or Taiwan and didn’t end at 2/28. 2/28 was just one “incident” and it was over with when the rebellion was put down. Afterwards KMT went back to its usual business. This is kinda like how you wouldn’t call what’s going on in the Chinese mainland nowadays as the 6/4 continuation.

I see. But that’s not how some, especially southerners, would understand it. They see it as akin to ethnic cleansing and that’s the standard for how ethnic politics works these days.

[quote=“zeugmite”]
I see. But that’s not how some, especially southerners, would understand it. They see it as akin to ethnic cleansing and that’s the standard for how ethnic politics works these days.[/quote]

It’s hardly suprising when the KMT government bullshitted about it so much. I was speaking with someone about this yesterday and he was saying that it really was a bad thing to talk about because it was so controversial. He didn’t seem to understand that until it is fully opened up and becomes fully part of the understood cultural history of Taiwan, then people will be able to use it as you said above. What was worrying was that after I asked a couple of questions about it, the two Taiwanese I was talking to seemed genuinely shocked that I knew so much, and even, a little more than them. I feel I know very little. If this level of ingorance is widespread, and I think it is, then of course people will be able to exploit it however they want.

(Sorry, a bit of a ramble, I know)

This chapter is very informative for those wanting to know how the slaughter went:

romanization.com/books/formo … hap14.html

It makes it quite clear that the innocent were killed along with the ‘guilty’ and if you read the preceding chapter or tow you will see that most of the ‘guilty’ only wanted reform. Read the whole book, and you’ll se what they were ‘rebelling against’.

Note: Please don’t accuse me of taking just one source here. There are many others, I just consider this a good summary for those interested, and from y other reading on the subject, consider it as reliable and unbiased as it comes.

Brian

Yes, I know. The intellectuals/students of 2/28 were against the same sort of thing that the intellectuals/students were against in 6/4 in the mainland.

BUT, in Taiwan, you’ve got more than the intellectuals/students participating and there were some truly unsavory characters among them. It got out of hand – that’s the simplest way to put it. Were the intellectuals wrong? No. Was KMT right to ignore them and therefore found a need to suppress them after 2/28 passed? No. Were the KMT wrong to crackdown on 2/28 itself when it got out of hand? Perhaps not.

well zeugmite, i got some reall evidence that i found, mr. koa yi sheng was educated by the japs, after ww2 the kmt waltz in and killed many aborigines, but koa yi sheng was killed in prison in 1952 because he apoligized what his people has done to the kmt.

Well, first I gotta translate:

NDAKOTA says, Mr. Koa Yi Sheng was educated by the Japanese. After WWII the KMT waltzed in and killed many aborigines. But Koa Yi Sheng (an aborigine?) was killed in prison in 1952 because he apologized for what his people has done to the KMT. (Who were “his people” and what had they done?)

That’s still incoherent. Can you explain how he was killed solely for his Japanese education?

Why are we so focused on “White Terror” on a 228 thread? Although Taidu supporters like to muddle the two distinct events in Taiwan history, they are not natural extension of each other in historical narratives.

228 - A roit, sparked by an old lady that would pay Japanese Alcohol and Tobacco Tax, but not an ROC Alcohol and Tobacco Tax, that was suppressed by a division of the ROC military.

White Terror - A period where the KMT practiced intellectual suppression among individual across a broad range of backgrounds. One of the taboo topics that was regularly suppressed and individuals punished for broaching was of course 228.

But other than that the two events are distinct in Taiwan history and should not be muddled. Let alone made a holiday out of to demonize a whole segment of the Taiwan population.

AC_Dropout: The white terror and the 2/28 mass murder can’t really be separated. The white terror was a continuation of 2/28.

Zeugmite: The KMT occupation force did not target the violence and terror against rebels only. Let’s see what Kerr saw himself:

OK shooting in all directions…

Cutting random strangers down…

Interesting indeed. Knock, knock, kill… Targeted???

OK, speaking english = traitor???

You should have read the chapter before posting.

I was talking about 228, not the White Terror. You would have realised that, had you taked the trouble to post the lionk I put up.

The 228 incident was not a riot, unless you are talking about the events of that day alone. A riot sparked mass demands for reform. Neither was it about an old lady not paying taxes. It was the fact that she was beaten by officials, who then killed one of the people who tried to intervene. It wasn’t mere tax evasion wither. The Japanese tax system was enforced fairly. The ROC tropps and officials took away anything that wasn’t nailed down. Then they came back to get the stuff that was nailed down too. That was waht people werre reacting to.

Stop talking shite about things that you know nothing about, ac_dropout. Once again, your’re like someone whose love of Nazis leads you to claim that they were merely putting down a riot by Jews who refused to follow the law.

Brian

Bu Lai En,

And what evidence do you have of this? In the first few years when Taiwan became a colony of Japan, there were many riots as well, resulting in the real death of tens of thousands of Taiwanese, who never got a chance to become the Japanese equal in the “golden age” society.

Might I suggest Li Ao and his book, The 2-28 You Don’t Know.

Kerr’s book reads like a dairy. I

Uhm, they were rounded up from Africa and sold as slaves, if they survived that long to breed in the new world that is… :noway:

They were executed / killed for organizing riots and civil disobedience. One could take the view that punishment was harsh, but given the circumstance of what goes on in a post-war zone, like Iraq, not out of the ordinary.

The aboriginals were driven into the mountains long before KMT ever arrived on the island. The KMT also started the land reform on Taiwan that was the cornerstone to the economic prosperity of Taiwan.

The DPP just recently bulldozed a few aboriginal settlements when CSB came back into power. Not to mention the DPP VP Lu recommended the aboriginals all move to South America.

If you blame the KMT for creating pop stars like A-mei, as a disservice to Taiwan, then the DPP are many times worst than the KMT with their Hoklo chauvinist agenda when it comes to ethnic relations on Taiwan in this regard.

The biggest piece of propaganda lie stemming from 228. The woman didn’t die in 228, another bystander was shot by accident when mobs of BSR surrounded the tax collector and threaten him. The officer brandished his gun to keep the mob at bay. The gun discharged and a bystander that was just “rubber necking” got killed.

Basically the moral of the tale of 228, BSR are racist hypocrites for having no problems paying the Tobacco and Alcohol tax that the Japanese introduced the colony. However, when the KMT inherits this taxation system from the Japanese, it becomes a big brew hahaha about injustice and a holiday to demonize the KMT.[/quote]

Ms Parks and her family were brought to America as slaves? What a load of horsehit.

And murder in a post war zone is acceptable to you then? Not all those murdered were involved in any disobedience at all… they were killed because CKS believed that being educated they had too much knowledge and were therefor considered dangerous to CKS and his cronies.

The aboriginals were forced to move from their legally owned lands by invaders who wanted the lands. It also depends on which tribe you are refering to. You also sated in a tread that anybody who didnt love Tawan should move to South America, so you’re no different from the other racists who live here.

I’ve never ade any mention of A Mei or other pop stars in Taiwan so I have no idea why you ramble on about this.

Regardless of the protest about Tax it was the KMT who started the killings mister… but you deem it acceptable.