2008 US Demo Party Presidential Campaign thread

“You guys” haven’t had the foghorn cranked up to this decibel level since the runup to the Mother of All Quagmires, TC. Obama must scare you guys shitless. It’s not hard to see why. It would be the ultimate repudiation of everything you guys stand for (and I use that term loosely) if the American people were to elect someone whose middle name is Hussein specifically to undo all the mischief of a president whose middle name might as well be Warmonger.

Obama’s Plan to Change the Economy

[quote]The address provided yet another example of what the senator from Illinois does best: It was an eloquent, nuanced, smart defense of the pressing need to roll back decades of government irresponsibility and ensure that the interests of, as he put it, “Main Street and Wall Street” are better aligned.

“Our free market was never meant to be a free license to take whatever you can get, however you can get it,” said Obama. He reached all the way back to the first secretary of the treasury, Alexander Hamilton, in his effort to argue from first principles that government has the right and responsibility to intervene in the economy to ensure that the few do not benefit at the expense of the many. He referenced the 1999 repeal of the provision in the Glass-Steagall Act that previously separated commercial and investment banking. He even declared that it was “time to realign incentives and compensation packages, so that both high level executives and employees better serve the interests of shareholders” – a broadside unlikely to win him a lot of votes in downtown Manhattan (or at the fundraiser at the investment bank Credit-Suisse that Obama headed to after his speech, as was helpfully pointed out by the Clinton campaign).

The comparison with Sen. John McCain’s speech on Tuesday could not be more stark. Obama’s jibe – that McCain’s “plan … amounts to little more than watching this crisis happen,” is not off the mark. McCain took great pains to stress his intent to intervene in the workings of Wall Street as minimally as possible. For those deluded souls who might still think there is no significant difference between the two major parties in the United States, a review of McCain’s and Obama’s speeches this week is in order. They are like bookends at opposite ends of the economics shelf. Obama snuggles up to John Maynard Keynes, while McCain seeks the warm embrace of Milton Friedman. Obama sounded like he understood what he was talking about. McCain sounded like he was reading a speech designed to make him look like he understood what was going on.[/quote]

Demo party nominations race is thumping along…betting bruised and maybe starting to spill blood in the water.

Gallup Daily: Obama Now at 52% to Clinton’s 42%

Obama Gets Boost; Clinton Urged to Quit

Cash-strapped Clinton fails to pay bills…where’s that PRC money when ya need it?

Mr. Spook opined:

Spook…I have no earthly idea who you are wishing “you guys” might be. But rest assured, you are ample proof that there is no shortage of feces in this election cycle…:smiley:

[quote=“TainanCowboy”] . . . Mr. Spook opined:

Spook…I have no earthly idea who you are wishing “you guys” might be. But rest assured, you are ample proof that there is no shortage of feces in this election cycle…:smiley:[/quote]

Right. ‘Nobody in here but us chickens.’

They don’t call your favorite news channel ‘Fox News’ for nothing.

[quote=“spook”]
They don’t call your favorite news channel ‘Fox News’ for nothing.[/quote]
They don’t call it ‘Fox’ for nothing, but they do call it ‘News’ for nothing.

So…slow day on the Demo nomination trail?

Crushing New Poll For Clinton: Obama Leads By 23 In NC

[quote]After days of Pennsylvania polls showed Hillary Clinton crumbling in the state, a new Rasmussen poll of North Carolina has horrible news for her diminishing chances – she is now behind 23% to Barack Obama, 56% to 33%. The stunner here is that just one month ago, Rasmussen’s NC poll had Clinton not far behind in the state, trailing by 7%, 47% to 40%. The huge drop also gives more credibility to her huge drops in PA. Many saw those polls showing such a large drop and figured they couldn’t be accurate, but not only has that drop now shown up in several PA polls, it is also starting to show up in NC. As I’ve stated before, Clinton cannot lose NC and still think she has a chance. She has to win PA, IN, and NC (and she has to win PA big, by 10+ points). That’s the only way she has any sort of shot at justifying staying in the race. A loss in any of those three will finish off what is left of her campaign, and obviously a 20+ point loss in NC would be absolutely devastating.

Looking at the internals, Obama leads 86% to 9% among black voters while Clinton is holding on to a slight lead among whites, 47% to 38%. A month ago, Clinton led by 20 points among whites. Remember all the talk about how the Rev. Wright story would crush Obama’s chances of winning over undecided white voters? It was all false. The Wright story hasn’t impacted Obama at all, and there are signs that his acclaimed race speech may have actually resulted in a net positive from the story for him, as evident by national polls and state polls in PA and NC.[/quote]

Clinton’s finally let us see their taxes.

Obama does damage control.
[i]"Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign veered into damage control mode today following the reporting of the candidate’s comments at a San Francisco fundraiser.

Trying to explain rural white culture to the California billionaires, the Democratic candidate said, "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them… it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Although Obama merely stated the obvious truth, many voters in Pennsylvania were apparently angered by the characterization. To stem the backlash before the state’s primary, the candidate hastily arranged a meeting with typical white people in rural Pennsylvania."[/i] See picture:

[i]"Obama’s Rural Outreach Coordinator Miss Jane Hathaway (top left) called the 10-minute meeting a “rousing success.”

“Contrary to some press reports, Sen. Obama has the common touch,” according to Hathaway. “He may not have understood the folksy references to possums and cement ponds, but the Clampett family was very receptive to the senator’s economic assistance.”

By all accounts, the family will be supporting Obama on April 22 — especially if their newly-decorated car is any indication.[/i] See picture:

I live in PA, and coming from a church-going family myself, I find Obama’s comments to be highly offensive although he probably didn’t intend it that way.

I was very enthusiastic about Obama in the beginning. Before he made those comments, I was 51% Obama, 49% Hillary. Now I’m not so sure.

PA is a Deer Hunter state. To make a comment like that with just over a week to go before April 22nd is like a nail in the coffin.

This verbal gaffe will hurt Obama in the Pennsylvania primary and further represents how the Democratic Party has shifted away from being a working man’s party. This is not the party of Harry Truman or even the party of Hubert Horatio Humphrey. With “Park Avenue” born-and-bred Howard Dean as the party’s chairman and Obama catering to the “chattering classes” with these snotty comments, I don’t think the blue-collar Reagan Democrats in Pennsylvania will be persuaded to vote for him. When I think of the Reagan Democrats in Pennsylvania, I think of the movie “Deer Hunter.” Patriotic, hard-working Americans that enjoy their game hunting on weekends. Scots-Irish people as well. Some of these people may have not seen their standard of living rise with globalization, but to characterize them all as racist, poor, gun-loving rednecks was a pretty stupid move politically by Obama, especially to a group of privileged people in California. The working class people in Pennsyvania are the salt of the earth and are proud and self reliant. I’m sure they’ll either not vote Democratic or will vote for Hillary in the primary.

The reason why populism failed in the late 19 and early 20th centuries was because the working whites and blacks could not overcome their differences. Obama seems to be continuing this trend. For someone who is supposed to be a uniter, Obama and his entourage seem to be dividing a lot of people with their careless comments and circle of friends. What were his political handlers and speechwriters thinking?

In Major Blunder, Obama Says Sky Is Blue

[quote]AP - In a major campaign blunder, Senator Barack Obama stated today that the sky is blue.

“This proves his elitist insensitivity,” reported correspondent Karl Rove “There were clouds over many parts of America today, including states the Democrats need to win in November. He completely ignored millions of Americans.”

“This shows Obama is out of touch,” added Fox News Inventor Bill O’Reilly. “What are blind people supposed to think? Obama doesn’t care whether they can see the sky? What about coal miners who work from dawn to dusk? And people working the nightshift? All these demographics were attacked today, and Obama must apologize to them or pay the price.”

Some defended Obama’s remark. “Many Americans see blue skies only on television,” noted one scientist. “When you must work two or even three jobs to feed your family, you haven’t much time to look up. So it may be a surprise to many that, in fact, the sky can be blue at times.”

But the vast majority of pundits determined that this was a major error. “If Obama keeps talking crazy like that,” explained White House News Plant Tony Snow, “What will he say next? That we need to leave Iraq?”[/quote]

So who are supposed to represent the working class? The Republicans with their noses crammed up the asses of the fossil fuels industry? Have they done a great job of representing “the working class”? in the last eight years? Did you know the number one reason for defaulting on a mortgage in America is inability to afford HEALTH CARE COSTS? Has Bush done anything to alleviate that? Will McCain? He’s got more lobbyists on his campaign than anyone. Are you telling me he’s not part of “the Elite”? This is just more spin-engineering BULLSHIT that the Repubs and Hillary are trying to make stick, because “flip-flopper” has already been taken.

You guys really outta reflect long and hard on whether you stand for anything at all anymore.

At least he didn’t say anything about opium for the masses.

From what I can tell from all of the post-“bittergate” polls, it’s hardly made a dent. Obama is still down 10-15 points depending on which polls you look at, but it’s been this way since early March. Outside of Philadelphia, the Democratic constituency in PA is exactly where Obama is weakest: it’s one of the oldest, least-educated in America.

God, how I wish this Democratic primary were over. The media has invested so much into developing grand narratives for each little “gaffe” (the Rev. Wright remarks, Clinton’s Bosnia remarks, these “bitter” remarks) and yet none of these have made so much as a statistical blip. I would really like the nominee to be decided quickly, so that the media microscope can be turned on John “100 years in Iraq, economics isn’t my strong point” McCain.

The silver lining is that while I agree that Obama’s initial remarks were ill-conceived, at least I like the way he’s reacted: remaining calm but responsive. He should do much better against the inevitable swiftboating than Kerry did if he becomes the nominee.

I went to college in the Philadelphia area and did a whole bunch of canvassing for the local Dems. Working with these racist union buffoons really turned me off on this whole demographic. Indeed, some of the guys I met, who were lucky enough to get into a union right after high school and have a guaranteed income of at least $80k/year starting when they’re 19, were some of the laziest people I’ve ever met. (On the other hand, I’m sure the working class folk in Pennsylvania who aren’t lucky enough to be in a union are working very hard at Walmart and Applebee’s just trying to approach the standard of living that their parents had.)

In particular, I remember going to a Gore rally in Philadelphia in 2000. I was standing next to a 75-year old black woman sitting in a wheelchair. There was a group of white union guys standing right in front of her, acting all tipsy and ranting and raving about the Iggles. As they were blocking her view, this woman asked rather meekly if they could move so she could see the podium. One guy just gave her this sneering, condescending look and they went back to talking without moving. Small incident, I know, but indicative of the asshatery you’d often see in this area.

And this was suburban Philly. The several times I’ve been to central Pennsylvania, it was like I had gone into an alien world.[/url]

[quote=“alidarbac”]

I went to college in the Philadelphia area and did a whole bunch of canvassing for the local Dems. Working with these racist union buffoons really turned me off on this whole demographic. [/quote]

I don’t think the higher union types from cosmopolitan Philadelphia you would see at a Democratic fundraiser are necessarily representative of the union people from the smaller mill or steel towns (as shown in the movie “The Deer Hunter”. I also don’t think you can make the stereotype that many union people have a tendancy to be lazy and racist. I’m sure there are some union workers who fit this stereotype, but I think you could find the same thing in all classes and occupations. Furthermore, I think it’s great that they get 80K a year. I don’t deny the right for working people to make a good living wage. Some of the smartest people I’ve ever met (and I’ve attended some pretty good schools and universities) have been non-educated union types. My grandfather, a bricklayer and union activist, for example. I think union people resent being pidgeonholed into a category that brands all of them as racist, redneck hunters. They may enjoy hunting, but they may enjoy classical music, European cinema, and travelling to all corners of the globe as well. I think Obama’s comments showed an elitism that is all too representative in the silk-stocking faction of the Democratic Party. We’ll have to see how this plays out in the general election in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania etc.

My personal experience in rural PA was less than stellar. Once they see a darker skinned minority you hear doors locking and feel their glare. Definitely wasn’t friendly and I was only stopping for gas, a quick bite, and directions.

Maybe they just don’t like outsiders… :laughing:

The guys I had to work with were most certainly not higher union types. They were 19 year-old kids who scored the winning lottery ticket of life because their father or uncle was a union leader. While we naive college kids would trudge around in the snow and knock on people’s doors trying to get them to go out to vote, they’d sit in some parking lot with their brand new Ford Explorers drinking Yuengling and pulling doughnuts.

I don’t deny that that was a small and probably very non-representative slice of working class life in PA.

Oh, c’mon. I though you were a free-trade capitalist like myself. It’s those comfy “living wage” jobs (80k/year is certainly more than living wage for some 19-year old kid without a family who spends half the working day sitting in parking lots and shooting the shit) that completely drove industry out of Ohio and PA. Also, one of the many reasons why the infrastructure in Philadelphia is so decrepit is because the city has such a difficult time working with the unions, which was led to white flight, concentrations of poverty, etc.

Indeed, weren’t you critical of Hillary when she started bashing NAFTA and free trade back during the Ohio primary? She was doing this to appeal to this exact demographic that you’re so reverential to. At the very least, NAFTA-bashing is so transparently pandering so whoever wins the presidency will almost certainly continue to push for more free trade agreements.

Well, we’ll have to see. I agree that as of now the old, white, high-school educated constituencies in Ohio and PA are weaknesses for Obama. That’s the precise argument that Hillary has been making to the superdelegates to convince them to ignore every other measure of support where Obama has beat her (pledged delegates, popular vote, states won, etc.) However, Obama brings into play states that previously were solidly Republican like NC and Missouri. Furthermore, I believe that if the nominee is decided quickly, then the Dems can turn on McCain and his numbers will start to dip. (Of course, if the nomination goes all the way to Denver, all bets are off.)

I am a free-trade capitalist. Yes, I hate the nepotism that is sometimes associated with unions, especially if a 19-year old newbie with connections, but no experience, is given the job. However, these unfair placements are not just limited to unions. Lots of people get places in life because of their connections–that’s a fact of life.

Still, I don’t deny a healthy, living wage for union tradespeople who have years of experience. That’s one thing I love about healthy, capitalistic Calgary in Alberta, Canada. You see painters, electricians, welders and many other tradespeople (some of them unionized) making 120K -200K a year. They certainly deserve every penny of it.

Of course, I was critical of her. I fully support NAFTA and Free Trade. However, considering she is running behind Obama and is now a longshot for the nomination, I can understand her leftward tilt during the nomination battle. In her heart, I’m sure she is pro-free trade. I’m pro-union to a point, but I’m sympathetic of the people in the developing world making US$1 or US$2 a day a hell of a lot more than union people in the comfortable first world. Global trade has raised millions of people out of poverty around the world. However, I would never categorize most union people as being racist rednecks, especially if my own pastor preached hatred and I attended his church for more than a decade. Furthermore, saying these remarks at the Getty’s household? :laughing: Piss-poor political strategy. I hope McCain overcomes his dislike of negative campaigning and “Atwaters” Obama in the fall campaign. :laughing:

[quote]In particular, I remember going to a Gore rally in Philadelphia in 2000. I was standing next to a 75-year old black woman sitting in a wheelchair. There was a group of white union guys standing right in front of her, acting all tipsy and ranting and raving about the Iggles. As they were blocking her view, this woman asked rather meekly if they could move so she could see the podium. One guy just gave her this sneering, condescending look and they went back to talking without moving. Small incident, I know, but indicative of the asshatery you’d often see in this area.

And this was suburban Philly. The several times I’ve been to central Pennsylvania, it was like I had gone into an alien world[/quote]

Obama is going to do much better in suburban Philly than the rest of the state. There is the possibility that he could still win the primary by cranking out the vote in the Philly suburbs, and winning that vote by an overwhelming margin. Ed Rendell beat Bob Casey in the 2002 gubernatorial primary by overwhelmingly carrying the Philly suburbs, even though Rendell won only 12 out of 67 counties. I don’t think Obama can pull the same stunt given the dynamic of the Democratic contest and considering that Hillary has her large share of supporters in the suburbs.

PA is a state with dual personalities. The western half has a Midwest flavor like Ohio. The Democrats in the Pittsburgh region are more Republican than the Republicans in the Philadelphia suburbs. Hillary should do well in this region.

Central PA is filled with the small town Reagan Democrats that Obama was referring to in his remarks. Lancaster County (with its Amish population) is the most Republican county in PA. I really can’t see Obama winning these counties in central PA.

Eastern PA is a swing region that has seen a lot of growth from New York and New Jersey transplants. Comparing eastern PA with western PA is like comparing apples to oranges. Eastern PA has that Northeast mentality. The counties in PA bordering NJ is turning Democratic because of the influx of new residents.

Recently Montgomery County and Bucks County went majority Democratic for the first time. 20 years ago Montgomery County was a Republican bastion. That’s not the case anymore after the recent surge in registrations.

So I think next Tuesday’s primary will be decided in the swing region of eastern PA. This is where Obama can overcome Hillary’s advantages elsewhere in the state. But whoever wins over rural, white Democratic voters will be seen as the strongest contender against McCain.

I am suprised more liberals haven’t criticized Obama’s position on gay marriage (he is against it). Surely if two adult people love each other and want to form an economic unit (essentially what marriage is), they should have the right to get married and enjoy the benefits from their union. I may be hawkish on foreign policy and moderately conservative on economic issues, but I tend to be quite liberal on social issues. Why is Obama against gay marriage and why isn’t the left wing of the Democratic Party calling him out on this issue?

I’m also suprised the intellectual elites/politically correct crowd haven’t gone after Obama for his cigarette smoking. Apparently, he has been off the wagon lately. It sounds like he is being pressured to quit. Who was the last president to smoke regularly? Ike used to smoke three packs a day but quit before becoming president. Same with LBJ (although he started up after he left the presidency). If Obama likes it, he should just tell people to “mind their own business.”

A smoking man against gay marriage. :s Sounds like he could be a part of that minority he criticized last week (the people with working-class habits/opinions). :laughing:

blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch … mokin.html