2022 Municipal Elections

He thinks covid is just a cold. That’s why he hates DPP because everything pandemic-related is a hoax.

Lots of reasons. DPP is anti-China and didn’t kill hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese, which basically makes them better by default.

The economy has also become much better since 2016. There are actual statistics on that.

Opinion polls on the economy from 2006 to June 2022. Realistically most people would think the economy is bad, but the trend is clearly upward from 2019 onward.

There’s also a poll on self-evaluation of household economic status. I am still looking for it but basically the gist is that there’s a marked upward trend in relation to 2015, meaning less people believe themselves to be “low income” or “lower-middle income” and more people believe themselves to be “upper middle class” and “wealthy” now. I can’t find the survey now but I remember reading it last year.

Edit: I found it.

Self-evaluation: social economic status
2022 January
Lowest: 5.9%
Lower-middle: 25.8%
Middle: 46.9%
Upper middle: 15.2%
Upper: 1.6%

2014 January
Lower: 13.5%
Lower-middle: 37.1%
Middle: 36.1%
Upper-middle: 7.1%
Upper: 0.4%

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The DPP has, objectively speaking, killed quite a few people over the last few years as a direct result of supporting CSC’s “COVID policy”. It’s hard to tell how many - it won’t be apparent for a year or two - but as I pointed out a while ago, the raw death rate for 2021 is shaping up to be noticeably higher than the 5-year average. This has been observed in other countries too.

Three specific examples would be the guy who died in an offshore accident and was denied transport to hospital, the kid who was denied an ambulance, and the bus-company owner who topped himself when the bottom fell out of the transport industry. Those are just the ones who happened to make the news. Perhaps we can ignore the thousand-odd who died after being coerced into taking an experimental medical treatment that they didn’t need, because as we all know those were just coincidences.

But you are of course referring to politicians who are long dead and gone. This is what I mean about religious devotion (or its opposite) to particular political parties. Politicians tend to join one party or the other because they know they don’t have a hope in hell of independent success. Simply joining the KMT doesn’t mean that you approve of what was done in the Martial Law era. The makeup of the DPP and the KMT, and the values of those parties, are not the same as they were 50 years ago, or even 20.

As for being anti-China - sure, that’ll make the big bad bogeyman just go away. :roll_eyes:

This could well be true, but in what sense is this the result of DPP policy? Any moderately-well-functioning economy will take this trajectory. I suppose the best that can be said about the DPP is that they haven’t done much. Which is often a good choice.

Because they use FPTP. A third party splits the vote.

Indeed. Same problem in other countries with the same system.

It’s almost as if it were an attempt to subvert democracy and maintain the ruling class in positions of power. Ultimately the DPP and the KMT - as in all two-party systems - each feed off the energy of the other.

I don’t think it is THAT mischevious, but I can see why there is no rush to change if it makes it harder for one to get power.

I often tout the benefits to the MP’s office when I see them.

Funnily enough. No. The 2014 survey results were worse than the 2009 survey results. And results of comparable surveys conducted in England and America etc. usually don’t change over the years or change for the worst, aka more people believe they are lower class now than before.

I’m sure there are more recent surveys and the trend is not a positive one.

According to the Economist, Taiwan’s excess death rate is amongst the lowest in the world, and it only went from negative excess death to positive because more ppl died in June.

Those countries are hardly comparable. Taiwan was a “developing country” under a military dictatorship until the 1980s. When you take the brakes off and just leave people alone, the economy tends to explode and then flatten out. Taiwan is currently in the doldrums that you would expect - salaries are certainly rising, but so is cost-of-living.

The MOHW hasn’t released ASMR figures for 2021, so I don’t know how they come to that conclusion. This appears to be a chart based on raw death rates, which contain little or no information. “Excess deaths” is not a “simpler” method as they claim - it makes certain assumptions about what the “correct” number of deaths is at any given moment, and there are various ways you can set up those assumptions.

It’s from 2014 to 2022, not 1987 to 1995.

What will you say if the MOHW figures are nothing special either?

Well, let’s wait and see, shall we? It doesn’t really alter the fact that people - identifiable people, real people, not statistics - had their lives ruined (or ended) by government policy for no discernible reason. If you want to claim that it’s right and proper that this person should die, or be seriously harmed, so that this other person can be saved (a highly dubious proposition to begin with) that’s another argument. But it’s an argument that CSC has never attempted to lay out, despite the fact that it is/was the whole basis of his “interventions”.

The CECC has manipulated people, spread false and misleading information, and pushed people around on the basis of whatever whims and fancies they come up with from day to day. The DPP implicitly supported them. I’m not sure why anybody would want the person who headed that up to be in charge of anything more complicated than cleaning the toilets. I wouldn’t even want him as my dentist. He’d probably claim that I needed 48 root canal procedures and six different medications, and if I didn’t follow instructions I’d die.

None of this is remotely true but whatever.

Nobody was harmed in any way as a result of COVID policy? The CECC told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Oh…kay. Two weeks to flatten the curve!

Get a grip

Just checking whether you’d run out of arguments.

I don’t see any point arguing with you. You never believed covid was real from the very beginning.

This argument is not primarily about COVID, but about CSC’s suitability for an important position for which he has proved himself eminently unsuitable by - for example - playing with the law in highly dubious manner.

I’ve written extensively about COVID here, and if my belief was “COVID isn’t real” then I would have written that and left it at that. However it suits you to believe that everyone who disputes the narrative is merely incorrigibly stupid and hasn’t thought it through. Which is the exact opposite of what actually happened, as evidenced by the fact that none of the COVID cheerleaders are able to engage in rational debate about their positions.

The other 2 parties will likely split the non-DPP votes in Taipei and Clock Chen will win.

Good. The other two parties should honestly be disbanded.

I don’t see how anyone could objectively believe this but you do you. My only issue with him is that he’s a smoker which is gross. Otherwise I don’t mind him at all, nor do 2/3 of the people. The latest opinion poll on him:

Do you approve of CSC (June 21)?

Strongly approve - 17.6%
Approve - 34.1%
No opinion - 13.1%
Disapprove - 19.5%
Strongly disapprove - 14.5%

You are one of the 14.5% so I guess you are not alone :man_shrugging:

Yes, I’m aware that many people approve of him, although June 2021 was a long time ago. The only thing that proves is that he’s mastered modern brainwashing techniques and that Taiwanese people are extraordinarily gullible.

As KHH said, the split in the opinions that are anything other than “CSC is the saviour of the human race” will probably ensure that he becomes Taipei mayor. I expect the DPP to encourage and nurture these divisions.

Not really any surprise that you favour a one-party State. But the TPP (I assume they’re the ‘third party’ being referred to here) is a joke, as is Ko.

Lol, this was June 2022, so literally just 3 weeks ago. In 2021 his approval ratings were even higher.

Get a grip. He’s like the most boring technocrat there is. No one in DPP now is a cult-like personality like Korean Fish or Ko or Trump.

I don’t favour a one-party state, but both TPP and KMT are the bottom of the barrel. If these two parties are gone DPP would naturally split into 2 or even more parties. One more moderate (people like Tsai) and one more militant (people like Lai).

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And yet he still managed to convince half the population he’s a demigod who will keep them safe from the lurgy, as long as they follow his magic prescriptions and accept capricious and unlawful impositions on their lives.

He isn’t a “technocrat”. A technocrat knows lots of technical stuff. He’s a flimflam artist, and a very good one. He appears to have taken a few tips from that lying, power-hungry scumbag Fauci, who likes to present himself as just a humble technocrat.

They’re all irredeemably corrupt and incompetent, the whole stinking lot of them.