2024 Parliamentary Clashes - Forced Legislation and Subsequent Protests

Many local friends are sharing about what’s happening today at the parliament over parliamentary reforms that are being proposed and voted on and approved in an express manner by KMT and TPP

https://taiwannews.com.tw/news/5688906

I can’t find much information in english about what is actually happening but it doesn’t look any good.

From descriptions i’m reading in facebook, aside from the intentional manslaughter videos going around of people being thrown down from high tables headfirst into floors, it seems like a pretty mafia-like operation to pass laws that noone has read before anyone has had the time to read them.

Any worthy news about it?

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You elect gangsters into the LY, you get gangsters in the LY.

Puma Shen—a disinformation specialialist at National Taipei University and now a DPP legislator—was reportedly hospitalized; others may be too.

For English language reporting, I’d suggest Brian Hioe’s work. He’s already posted a report at New Bloom on some of the developments last night.

Guy

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Students protesting at the LY tonight over these developments. If the KMT is not careful, it might radicalize a new generation.

Photo credit: Brian Hioe from the report linked above

Guy

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Another photo, this time from CNA:

Source: 立院審國會職權修法 場外近百民眾聚集要求停止表決實質審查[影] | 政治 | 中央社 CNA

Guy

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Another English report:

Hate these BS face saving excuses:

Chung got over the podium table and grabbed and then dragged down female KMT Legislator Chen Ching-hui (陳菁徽), to whom Chung later apologized and said he accidentally stepped on paper and slipped.

Everyone involved should be arrested and charged.

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As to the brawling, my understanding is that it’s customary. There even seems to be a sort of routine or ritual element to it.

Han Cheung / Staff reporter, “Taiwan in Time: Brawls in the Legislature: ‘Shame of Taiwan’: Provocative lawmaker Chu Kao-cheng ignited the nation’s first legislative brawl on April 7, 1988,” Taipei Times, April 3, 2022

I’m not condoning brawling, but as long as no one dies in these brawls, I do think they’re probably preferable to duels. In the early days of the US, dueling was the way that national-level politicians sometimes settled disputes:

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Yeah but that was 200 years ago. We’d think democracies would have evolved since then?

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Well, yes, one might think so, and maybe they have evolved, but evolution is slow, and there still seem to be these little outbreaks from time to time:

Kenneth R. Clark (UPI), “Just for Kicks,” Warsaw, Indiana Times-Union, October 25, 1978

Wikipedia, “List of Incidents of Grave Disorder in the British House of Commons” (November 16, 1981)

Ibid.

Associated Press, “GOP senator challenges Teamsters head to a fight in a fiery exchange at a hearing,” November 15, 2023

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Have you seen any American oversight committee meetings lately?

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MTG calling AOC dumb or something to that effect, and AOC wanting it struck from the record?

It should be kept. She is dumb.

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I don’t think the US Congress is a great model for anyone right now.

The key point in Taiwan’s LY is this: the KMT-led legislators are back to their old habits of trying to push through changes while not quite respecting procedural process. Remember this is what sparked the Sunflowers! After this profoundly impactful movement, the KMT became a sullen shell for nearly a decade, estranged from the executive after the Sunflower movement and then in a minority position for the duration of Tsai’s presidency (2016-2024).

And here we are in 2024, they have regained control of the LY (as long as Ko’s TPP works with them), and they are trying it again. And again it has led to protests. The key to watch is how the KMT will move on Tuesday when the LY reconvenes.

Guy

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I saw that. Meeting of the minds. :expressionless:

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I get how Taiwan can have a robust conservative party–lots of countries do–but given (1) 228 and the White Terror, and (2) the KMT’s seeming desire for unification with despotic China, I don’t understand how the KMT has survived as long as it has.

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The KMT is a complex beast, bringing together the remaining die-hard ROC nationalists; the apparently resurgent local factions (linked to the above-mentioned gangsters in the LY); some pro-business types who are now banging on about expanding nuclear power; and habitual KMT voters who hate the DPP and its policies . . .

I too would have predicted the splintering of these groups, who are not always fully aligned. And we do know that the KMT has had a habit of splintering since the New Party went its own way in the 1990s.

Will KMT leadership be able to hold things together? Will faction / gangster types like Fu continue to throw their weight around in the LY? My best guess is probably yes. We may be in for a tumultuous four years.

Guy

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While both are much too extreme for my tastes, at least AOC is closer to deserving to be in her position and doesn’t spew stupid conspiracy theories ad nauseam. MTG is laughably under-qualified for her role and rose to fame seemingly from the combination of daddy’s money/connections, a penchant for spinning a good grift + looks.

AOC runs circles around MTG intellectually, politics aside. It’s not even close.

Well said, 100% true. The bar is laughably low in the US right now

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Is that the bar?

Is MTG’s districts flooded with “undocumented migrants,” crime and hookers?

image

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@Mr_PBH you are in Taiwan, and you are posting in a Taiwan politics forum about a specific Taiwan development which took place here in Taiwan yesterday.

Stay focused, man! Sometimes not everything is about the US.

Guy

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Tell it to CT. He brought it up. :idunno:

I’ll go back to not caring now. :whistle:

As if a thread never gets derailed, Guy. You know that perfectly well.

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I’ll go back to not caring now.

I pay taxes here. I live here. I care!

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Guy