21st Century Patriotism

Are you a patriot?

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

To me, patriotism is a thing of the past.

Modern means of communication makes it easy for anyone to find out ridiculous amounts of injustice at every level of the society we live in.

I am not patriotic, I dislike my country in a way because it’s almost like it’s not mine anymore. I’m not going to support the bastards. I’m better off looking after myself because my country sure isn’t going to help me. I have to pay my taxes though, like everyone so that some rich bastard can stay rich. It’s not right and in this light, (it’s quite dark actually…) it makes me wonder why being a patriot would be regarded as a good thing in 2006. It doesn’t make sense, I refuse to be so oblivious.

What do other expats think about that?

bobepine

[quote=“bobepine”]
I am not patriotic, I dislike my country in a way because it’s almost like it’s not mine anymore. I’m not going to support the bastards. I’m better off looking after myself because my country sure isn’t going to help me.[/quote]

So put your money where your mouth is. Turn in your passport, renounce your citizenship and apply for ROC nationality. Simple enough.

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“bobepine”]
I am not patriotic, I dislike my country in a way because it’s almost like it’s not mine anymore. I’m not going to support the bastards. I’m better off looking after myself because my country sure isn’t going to help me.[/quote]

So put your money where your mouth is. Turn in your passport, renounce your citizenship and apply for ROC nationality. Simple enough.[/quote]

I was expecting this kind of response. The thing is comparing one country to another isn’t going to make a difference. I come from a country that is generally known as a decent place to live and yet I’m not patriotic. What makes you think that another country would change that? Note that I’m not just talking about my own country, I’m questioning the logic involved in being a patriot, regardless of where you are from.

bobepine

[quote=“bobepine”]
I was expecting this kind of response. The thing is comparing one country to another isn’t going to make a difference. I come from a country that is generally known as a decent pace to live and yet I’m not patriotic. What makes you think that another country would change that? Note that I’m not just talking about my own country, I’m questioning the logic involved in being a patriot, regardless where you are from. [/quote]

So declare yourself stateless. :laughing:

You might find after you’ve lost what you don’t presently value, your attitudes change.

Would that exempt me from taxes? Cause if it would your “put your money where your mouth is idea” actually would make sense.

Otherwise … thanks for your input CS. Filed it away already (folder: bin). Nice though you admitted patriotism is not even an issue and changed the topic to mere citizenship. Good to see also you begin to think more in terms of taxes and obligations and less of who can hide behind the biggest flag.

Keep your citizenship bobpine. It comes expensive enough already.

After this little excourse about passports anyone up to address patriotism now? CS maybe?

I’m a patriotic US citizen. I’m looking forward to the day when I can be proud of my country again. Bush and Cheney are evil killing warmongers and I hate them.

I suppose if I wasn’t a lazy good for nothing I’d be patriotic, but only to the land, not to the government, and CERTAINLY not to those effete wankers doon in Westminster. They can kiss my hairy erse. Come any further north than Hadrian’s Wall with murder in your heart though and you’ll taste cold steel.

[quote=“games”]
Otherwise … thanks for your input CS. Filed it away already (folder: bin). [/quote]

I’m hurt. I’m crushed. :frowning:

[color=green][text removed][/color]

Being German I am very proud I manage to say the countries name Deutschland without getting red or starting to studder or attracting strange and concerned looks of fellow Germans or without having to use circumvent words like Federal Republic and stuff.

To say I would be Patr … Patro … Patrio … Patr … Pakrtr

see …

:blush: :s

[quote=“bobepine”]To me, patriotism is a thing of the past.

Modern means of communication makes it easy for anyone to find out ridiculous amounts of injustice at every level of the society we live in.

I am not patriotic, I dislike my country in a way because it’s almost like it’s not mine anymore. I’m not going to support the bastards. I’m better off looking after myself because my country sure isn’t going to help me. I have to pay my taxes though, like everyone so that some rich bastard can stay rich. It’s not right and in this light, (it’s quite dark actually…) it makes me wonder why being a patriot would be regarded as a good thing in 2006. It doesn’t make sense, I refuse to be so oblivious.

What do other expats think about that?

bobepine[/quote]
That reminds me of how I felt during the Vietnam war. I was in High School and when they played the National Anthem at assemblies I wouldn’t stand up. I don’t think that’s unpatriotic. Standing up for what you believe in and trying to make a peaceful change for the better is very patriotic. (In a USA point of view.)

Me too. Because that “renounce citizenship - never pay taxes again” was very appealing to me. Broke my heart when I realized it was just a smokescreen thrown by you.

Ambrose Bierce:
“In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first” ----THE DEVIL"S DICTIONARY

“‘My country right or Wrong’ is like saying ‘My mother drunk or sober.’” G.K. CHESTERTON

“Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles.” GEORGE JEAN NATHAN

And while my brain appreciates all these fine witty remarks, my blood will always bring me back to defending. If my borough or my nation (adopted or otherwise) were under attack, I would do what I could to defend it. And if that puts me in harm’s way as a minion in the Great Cog known as Patriot Games so be it. That does not make ME a patriot, rather just a hired geek who is resigned to his inevitable fate.

The Thing Speaks For Itself.

I’m patriotic to a people and a land and a set of values, rather than to a government or institution.

Kind of like what Sandaman was saying. Infact, I would even defend Scotland, but only because it belongs to England. :smiling_imp:

That’s one of the most stupid remarks I have heard in a long time.

I second that.

Blind patriotism is of course stupid. But the US is (sorta) my home country. One wants to feel proud of one’s home, and wants to defend it. Defend, I say, not charge off into foreign lands on wars of choice dreamt up by some 2-digit IQ ne’r-do-well shrubhead moron. And I’m certainly not proud of Guantanamo Bay, or most of the current administration’s policies, or the current inequalities at home. Oops, scratch that last one, for fear of being accused of playing some imaginary race or gender card. :unamused:

Surprising no one, I am a Patriot. I am an American and I am proud of that fact.

I did walk the walk and can talk the talk. But that is not a requirement of being a Patriot.
Simple enough - its just being proud of the people who make up the land that you love.
Its knowing that you have found a home; and that home is with those who share your values and beliefs in what makes your country great in your eyes and in your heart.

Its simplistic gibberish to reduce Patriotism down to blind obedience. Its none of that; Although that argument may work for the agenda you push. But thats your choice and if that works for you - then so be it.

So you’re not a Patriot, not proud of being a citizen of the USA, not a Patriot to your country of birth - So what? That again is your choice. Doesn’t affect me in the least.
Stop trying to make it sound so friggin’ ‘noble’ or ‘enlightened.’ It is neither of those.
Its just a decision you currently feel id the right one for you.

And your haughty comments about those who do feel, act and espouse Patriotism to their country damn sure shows what you’re made of…and it ain’t to pretty.

Denigrating other for their Patriotism to their country doesn’t raise you any higher. I don’t feel threatened by those who love and are Patriotic to their country. Their pride is reflective of their security in their national identity and their heritage.

My Father & Mother came from Scotland to the USA at fairly early ages. Both were very proud of their Scottish roots and never spoke a bad word about the country of Scotland (choice words for the politics though). They became Americans by choice. Their decision and they showed me the gifts of being American and the obligations these things entailed.
Patriotism is responsibility to your country, Accountability for your actions.

I’m a patriotic American. I can understand some people’s desire to simply be a citizen of the world, and I think that’s the underlying sentiment some people on here are expressing. At some point in the future, I do think our respective national identities will fade. Can anyone imagine we humans travelling the stars, still divided by national lines? Some day I really do believe we will be united as one people.

However, I think that day is a long way off. Probably many centuries off. In the meantime I remain committed to America, and its long-held values of freedom, justice, and equality. I believe it is ultimately a democratic culture that will unify the world, and I’m proud to be a citizen of one of the world’s beacons of democracy.

Like TainanCowboy, I don’t blame those who aren’t patriotic, but am sick of unpatriotic people portraying themselves as some grand intellectual elite. I wonder, if a liberal Democrat is the next president, will you suddenly regain your patriotism, or will that still be beneath you?

Ah, cynicism, the new religion!!

How did this:[quote=“I”]What do other expats think about that?[/quote]End up being interpreted as this?

I did not read any comments in this thread that were looking down on American patriots and I’m glad. I am not American and this thread is not about America but Americans are more than welcome to post their thoughts. There are many different nationalities posting here and I am interested in hearing from them and that includes Americans either patriots or not.

I posted in the politics forum so I think you’re not really off topic but please keep the discussion about patriotism in general. If I wanted to talk about American patriotism only, I would have named the thread accordingly.

Thanks,

bobepine

Moreover, how do quotes from Bertrand Russell, a Welshman who died in 1970; George Bernard Shaw, an Irishman who died in 1950; Guy de Maupassant, a Frenchman who died in 1893; and Samuel Johnson, an Englishman who died in 1754, lead to the following conclusion:

Patriotism has been criticized by great thinkers from around the world for centuries. It is not new or uniquely American to feel that patriotism tends to be a blind, unthinking, uncritical support for ones country (or government), right or wrong, that leads to war and other stupidity.

Here’s a few more: