Until we have a world society, where news and information travels at the same speed everywhere and is understand as it is intended, patritotism will have negative connotations.
Patriotism means ignoring someone somewhere in the world.
That said, I am biased.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]
I don’t salute the flag, automatically cheer for the Canuck athlete at the Olympics, and I certainly don’t believe in “my country, right or wrong.” I love my country out habit, because it’s one of my many homes, because it’s familiar–an extended family. Other things take priority, though, because I’m more passionate about them: my immediate family, friends, right, wisdom, education, excellence of various sorts.
Guess that makes me a low grade patriot.
I’ve always tended to be blase about patriotism, and the bon mots quoted in this thread have always resonated with me. That said, I would defend Canada if it ever came to that. I’m no collaborationist.
Funny thing about being back here after a 7-year stint in Taiwan. I find, at the ripe old age of 40, that I’ve grown to really like most of the mannerisms and, dare I say it, culture of the people in Southern Ontario where I live. I like the stereotypically reserved approach to social situations, the self-deprecating humour, the quiet blandness that informs much of life.
And then there’s Toronto, a happening and cosmopolitan place an hour and a half away, that still retains a somewhat stodgy presbyterian veneer in spite of its eight Chinatowns and mammoth Caribbean and South Asian populations and Italian and Portuguese districts and everything else and in between. “New York run by the Swiss” goes the old saw, and the more I think about it, the more I feel like that’s a pretty damn good idea, and quite the compliment besides.
Of course, there are irritants and toe-curlingly embarrassing aspects to the “culture” here, too. But that’s part and parcel with the whole package. If this is one way to define patriotism, then so be it. Or, if it’s simply lazy acceptance of the place I’m in, and a fundamentally conservative outlook on society informed by having grown up here, well, then so be it anyway.
That’s my piece.
Images of idiots draped in my native country’s national flag or with stupid flags on their faces, blubbering at sporting events, the dawn vigil at Gallipoli or chasing lebs on Cronulla make me pause and reflect mass murder. I guess that’s a form of patriotism.
I do like the Australian landscape but do think it would be a lot better without around 90% of the people in it. Perhaps we could have them all strung up or shot in Asian prisons?
It probably isn’t the case but I do blame that fucker John Howard for the faux patriotic dross awash in Oz.
Seeing this the other day I vowed to not return even for a visit for at least another two years. Hopefully Johnny Howard will have died a slow and extremely painful death by then.
[quote]Police refuse to return burnt flag
Police are refusing to return a deliberately burnt Australian flag that was seized from a Footscray art gallery almost two weeks ago, despite prominent lawyers having declared the seizure illegal.
Footscray police will not say why they are refusing to return burnt flag, which they removed from the exterior of Trocadero Art Space on January 20, to its owner.
The police said they had received “a number of complaints from the public” about the work, which had been hung two days earlier.
The flag was part of an exhibition by Melbourne artist Azlan McLennan.[/quote]
There is no crime in burning the Aussie flag, as should be the case, yet two cops took it upon themselves to scale the exterior of an art gallery and take down an exhibit! Surely theft and a whole lot more. Farking’ pigs! But then, that’s the state of that sadly benighted country. What a great pity European’s stole it from the aborigines.
In any case, the presence of the Union Jack in the corner of the current flag and the fact that no one knows the words to the national anthem are indicative that no one has really made up their mind yet. Why salute a vacuum?
HG
Burning the Jack and the Stripes is now illegal on the streets of Britain and I think this is justified, but in the case of it being an art form, not a demonstration, I think a blind eye would be turned.
[quote]
I did not read any comments in this thread that were looking down on American patriots and I’m glad. I am not American and this thread is not about America but Americans are more than welcome to post their thoughts.[/quote]
What I don’t understand is why a few Americans jumped straight in and assumed this was another “go” at the US when it’s clearly a topic about Patriotism inviting applicants from all countries, including Denmark.
Hmm curious, so what if an Aussie burns the Aussie flag in the UK? It’s got the Jack (snicker) in the corner. Technically that’s still the Union flag, right?
They’re just hypersenstive these days. Basically it springs from a greatly exaggerated sense of their own importance.
HG
Is it not too easy to respond with a simple yes or no on this question?
Must a patriot be able to sing the National hymn? Do not think so.
Can I judge myself a patriot if I am proud of some tiny things my country provides to humanity?
Will I therefore hang out the tri-color flag out of the window on the 21st of July? NO.
It is a fact that euh? 95% of US citizens are patriotic, because they are educated as such.
Those who open their eyes and are not afraid to judge the internal criticisms in the US might be less patriotic than before
When I visited the Dominican Republic a few months ago, I think I met the most patriotic people in the word.
Correct me if I am wrong, but those must be Canadians. They wanted to show on whatever item they were wearing or carrying that they came from the Maple Leaf country. But, in fact I felt them to be more humble in a matter of speaking than US citizens. (global perception I had)
Cause they are not educated with the “we are the one and only” attitude.
As long as patriotism is not turning in to chauvinism (as the French tend to be) I can live with the fact that us are proud of facts generated or delivered by our native soles.
Nope, I am not a patriot, but I am proud to say that I was born in the center of Europe.
I do not think I would like to go back, but I will probably be buried there one day
Technically, I suppose, but it still pertains to Australia and not the UK. Try it, see what happens 
I think the law was introduced under new anti terrorism laws to stop people of a certain religious orientation defacing a country that gives them loads of benefits and a free house.
Personally, I don’t think it is right to burn the flag of anyones country because it is usually meant as a sign of total disrespect to the people of that country. It’s like burning books - it’s a thing that shouldn’t be done.
[quote=“Richardm”]
That reminds me of how I felt during the Vietnam war. I was in High School and when they played the National Anthem at assemblies I wouldn’t stand up. I don’t think that’s unpatriotic. Standing up for what you believe in and trying to make a peaceful change for the better is very patriotic. (In a USA point of view.)[/quote]
Thanks Richard, you make me feel young. 
I was just a baby back then. I find what you say here very interesting, in fact I feel a little bit more like a patriot now. 
[quote=“Dangermouse”]I’m patriotic to a people and a land and a set of values, rather than to a government or institution.
Kind of like what Sandaman was saying.[/quote]There’s the crux I think. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, I dislike my country “in a way”. But I don’t dislike all of it. The land where I come from is something I will always love. From the old Laurentians to the Rocky Mountains, no doubt it’s a great heritage.
I tend to see support for the government as an integral part of patriotism. According to some responses in this thread, others surely think of it that way as well. Since I do not support the crooks, I suppose they would be quick to label me unpatriotic and I’m willing to wear the title proudly even if some may think that it is “not pretty.”
“People, sets of values”? I’m divided here because the values we hold at heart are also part of the problem and too often it doesn’t pay to be patriotic, it costs.
Here’s an example or two. My father in law has raised two daughters working for a big road building company in Saskatchewan. Great people living a simple life. He worked for this company for like 25 years until the owner died. The owner’s son took over the business and ran it into the ground within two years. At 55 years old, the man found himself unemployed and despite having worked hard for that long and despite being a decent patriot, he finds himself accepting money from his daughter to pay for his property taxes in order not to lose his house. Nice to have values and be patriotic about them but Christ what good does it do if you can’t even own a house after slaving your whole life?
My mother’s boyfriend has now been unemployed for the last month and money is getting scarce there too. The man worked all of his life an average of 50 hours per week and at 62, he has to worry about how to come up with enough money to put food on the table. Could our values actually have anything to do with that? I think so, and one value commonly shared by many is called patriotism.
It doesn’t pay off to be patriotic and that’s why I refuse to be so blind and oblivious. If to you, being a patriot means holding fond sentiments about a place, then I’m a patriot. If it means to be proud of certain values that cause hard working tax payers to have nothing in return, or if it means to support the crooks that the government is made of, then count me out.
bobepine
Well, some are a bit more sensitive than others…[quote]“I’m a patriotic US citizen. I’m looking forward to the day when I can be proud of my country again.
Bush and Cheney are evil killing warmongers and I hate them.”[/quote][quote]“That reminds me of how I felt during the Vietnam war. I was in High School and when
they played the National Anthem at assemblies I wouldn’t stand up. I don’t think that’s unpatriotic.
Standing up for what you believe in and trying to make a peaceful change for the better
is very patriotic. (In a USA point of view.)”[/quote][quote]“But the US is (sorta) my home country. One wants to feel proud of one’s home,
and wants to defend it. Defend, I say, not charge off into foreign lands on wars of choice
dreamt up by some 2-digit IQ ne’r-do-well shrubhead moron. And I’m certainly not proud of
Guantanamo Bay, or most of the current administration’s policies, or the current inequalities
at home. Oops, scratch that last one, for fear of being accused of playing some imaginary race
or gender card. Oh brother!”[/quote]
…but I guess their hearts are in the right place.
As for …
And I think its because we are just such a large target and forgiving of the ignorant.
It depends on your definition of patriotism.
Do I love my country? Yes.
“My country right or wrong”? No.
[quote=“Chris”]It depends on your definition of patriotism.
Do I love my country? Yes.
“My country right or wrong”? No.[/quote]
The govenrment is not the country.
I agree with your thoughts here Chris.
I gave it another thought with a quote:
[quote]“Real Patriotism occurs the moments you sit before your TV screen watching whatever sporting event where the representatives of your country have to make you proud.
If they badly screw up, you certainly do not feel as a patriot afterwards and wished you were born in Wagadoegoe or Zanzibar”.[/quote]
2/3rds of the international section of the newspaper is dedicated to America. 8/10 posts on forumosa international politics is dedicated to the U.S. in some way. The only time the U.S. comes up in conversation for me is when my Euro friends having pissing contest about America. I guess perception is reality 
Like I said:
Hence:
Yawn.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Surprising no one, I am a Patriot. [/quote] You? Noooooo. I’m glad you posted your sincere thoughts TC, your patriotism is almost overwhelming and well worth the read.
[quote]
Its knowing that you have found a home; and that home is with those who share your values and beliefs in what makes your country great in your eyes and in your heart.[/quote]That has nothing to do with the government and I can appreciate it.
[quote]Its simplistic gibberish to reduce Patriotism down to blind obedience. Its none of that; Although that argument may work for the agenda you push. But thats your choice and if that works for you - then so be it.[/quote]Who are you addressing TC? I assume maybe the OP(me) or you’re addressing anyone who disagrees with your views. In any case, I don’t have an agenda when it comes to posting on Forumosa. I sure hope I don’t.
[quote]So you’re not a Patriot, not proud of being a citizen of the USA, not a Patriot to your country of birth - So what? That again is your choice. Doesn’t affect me in the least.[/quote] I hope it doesn’t affect you too much.
[quote]
Stop trying to make it sound so friggin’ ‘noble’…
[/quote]Oh now. Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! From now on please address me as "De Bobepine."
[quote]And your haughty comments about those who do feel, act and espouse Patriotism to their country damn sure shows what you’re made of…and it ain’t to pretty.[/quote]That’s very judgmental. I guess maybe not worse than saying you’re oblivious so we’re even. 
[quote]I don’t feel threatened by those who love and are Patriotic to their country.[/quote]Neither do I but I’m puzzled. This thread, your post help understanding where you and others come from. Truly interesting don’t you think?
[quote]My Father & Mother came from Scotland to the USA at fairly early ages. Both were very proud of their Scottish roots and never spoke a bad word about the country of Scotland (choice words for the politics though). They became Americans by choice. Their decision and they showed me the gifts of being American and the obligations these things entailed.
Patriotism is responsibility to your country, Accountability for your actions.[/quote]You say that it’s gibberish to reduce patriotism to obedience but now you mention obligations, accountability and responsibility. That’s where I lose you. A lot of what you wrote makes good sense to me but this part I don’t relate. Put it this way, I will accept to pay my taxes(without complaining) and fulfill my obligations to my country, if the powers that be actually stop stealing my tax money, fulfill their mandate and their obligations to the people. I will agree to be held responsible for my country when my country can be held responsible for the homeless, the sick who can not afford treatment, etc, etc, etc. That is not happening. And don’t worry about accountability, if I don’t pay my taxes, my country will be kind enough to strip me down.
:braveheart: :braveheart: :braveheart:
Best,
bobepine