OMG, MYJ at the public event spoke Taiwanese and blamed the KMT for the events of 228.
Does his ambition know no bounds? Clearly pandering to the nativist in Taiwan for their votes.
He’s up by 20 points in the polls, will he not be happy untill he is ahead by 30 points?
[quote=“ac_dropout”]OMG, MYJ at the public event spoke Taiwanese and blamed the KMT for the events of 228.
Does his ambition know no bounds? Clearly pandering to the nativist in Taiwan for their votes.
He’s up by 20 points in the polls, will he not be happy untill he is ahead by 30 points?[/quote]
Well, the KMT (the old KMT, that is) is to blame for the events of 228.
We can see Ma’s honesty: he’s telling the truth. All the more reason to support him.
It can’t be Mayor Ma, it’s got to be an alien in disguise.
What’s the bet he still repeals 228 as a national holiday of mourning as soon as he gets into the red house?
I suggest 228 Day be replaced by Hello Kitty Day or Promotion of Proper Mandarin Day…
I’m tired of the DPP candidate referring to ROC good friend as “Rice Nation.” Granted the average American is too fat, but the proper name is “Beautiful Nation.”
[quote=“ac_dropout”]I suggest 228 Day be replaced by Hello Kitty Day or Promotion of Proper Mandarin Day…
I’m tired of the DPP candidate referring to ROC good friend as “Rice Nation.” Granted the average American is too fat, but the proper name is “Beautiful Nation.”[/quote]
I thought “Rice Nation” was the Japanese name for America. Is Hsieh Japanese?
mei guo = rice nation? by ear maybe but not by character. that DPP man is plum out of line.
Unfortunately, Hsieh routinely pronounces it as Mi Guo…
[quote=“ac_dropout”]OMG, MYJ at the public event spoke Taiwanese and blamed the KMT for the events of 228.
Does his ambition know no bounds? Clearly pandering to the nativist in Taiwan for their votes.[/quote]
Ma Yingjeou has apologized on behalf of the KMT for both 228 and the White Terror on numerous occasions, e.g at the spring and autumn memorial gatherings at the Machangding execution ground in Wanhua. I went to hear a dialogue between Shih Ming-teh (Shi Mingde) and Beijinger dissident Wei Jingsheng where they talked about their experiences as political prisoners under KMT and Communist regimes respectively. The event was hosted by Ma Yingjeou when he was Mayor of Taipei. Unfortunately the event was not well attended.
Reference:
馬英九追悼白色恐怖受難者 盼悲劇不重演
More (also in Chinese)
Not entirely - see below.
You are right. Frank Hsieh studied Law in Japan. Also, the Taiwanese/Hokkien name for America sounds like “Biguo” - 美 mei (beautiful) as in Mandarin and 米 mi (rice) as in Japanese are interchangeable as they are both pronounced bi2 in Hokkien/Taiwanese. AC, would you clarify whether you are talking about Frank Hsieh’s pronuncitaion in Mandarin or what he says when he’s talking Hokkien?
Reference:
米 rice and 美 beautiful are pronounced the same (including the tone) - bi2 - in Hokkien (Taiwanese). Click here and search for reference (PDF).
A web search produces numerous instances of 米國 and 美國 occurring together in the same article or on the same page.
米zza (mǐzza)
Hsieh does slip up many times. His latest offense to my virginal ears occurred during his response to same sex marriage question in Taiwan. To which his response was somewhere along the lines, “In Rice Nation, there are only 2 states that permit it…”
It is cute for a tai-ke, some kids, and maybe some cutie at a bar that drank too much…but it is not very presidential at all.
Listening to Hsieh speaking is extremely painful, even more so than listening to Chen. Ma, in contrast, speaks beautiful, mellifluous, perfectly enunciated, flowing Chinese that is always a pleasure to the ear.
That alone should be sufficient reason for choosing one over the other to serve as national leader.
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]Listening to Hsieh speaking is extremely painful, even more so than listening to Chen. Ma, in contrast, speaks beautiful, mellifluous, perfectly enunciated, flowing Chinese that is always a pleasure to the ear.
That alone should be sufficient reason for choosing one over the other to serve as national leader.[/quote]
Surely you jest, Omni. But i can’t see that little grin emoticon that would be there in that case.
surely the person who speaks the native language of his country best should be the one for the job, not the one who speaks the imposed language of the invaders, no matter how well pronounced it is?
Admittedly, Ma would look prettier on a postage stamp than Hsieh would, but so what?
the problem here is that many Taiwanese would probably vote for the postage stamp, rather than an independent future of their country.
[quote=“urodacus”]
the problem here is that many Taiwanese would probably vote for the postage stamp, rather than an independent future of their country.[/quote]
Which do you think Taiwanese have as a higher priority, peace or independence, and which one do you think has the greatest chance for prosperity?
The referendum people want is “should we rename the country, make a new constitution and write a declaration of independence”. Not some limp wristed “UN for Taiwan” referendum. So why didn’t it happen? The reasons are obvious.
But because all we got was a “UN for Taiwan” referendum after 8 years of DPP being in power, I think this has had many people thinking about the benefit/cost ratio of pursing this track. At least at this time.
apart from being saddled with an less than lacklustre cadre from whom to make a presidential canddate, the DPP will always be “damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t” doanything about TI.
they can’t go forth and trumpet Taiwan’s independence or China will shit on them wiith great prejudice, claiming it’s altered their stupid one-sided definition of the ‘status quo’.
they can’t actually do anything until the stupid ROC edifice that Chiang KS in his great beneficence bestowed, albatross-like, upon the people of Taiwan, is dismantled, illegal and irrelevant though it was. China has no legitimate claim upon Taiwan, though it still bleats like a forgotten puppy when anyone even mentions the name Taiwan without ‘Province of China’ attached like some as-yet-unsnipped foreskin (sorry HGC). they’re politically screwed anyway, isolated by years of KMT brainwashing of schoolchildren, altering history to suit their aims, political control of all propaganda machines (sorry, TV and radio stations created by the state and still illegally held by the KMT), etc, not to mention imposing an occupier’s language on the populace, importing a large number of troops and secret police, and dismantling as much as possible any opportunity for counter-acting free speech and dissenting opinion (as all fascist dictatorships do). not really a fair race.
and what will the KMT do in their place? effectively donate Taiwan to the oligarchy that is modern China, initially by opening free trade and travel, creating an economic zone, perhaps adopting a unified currency, then minimising border controls, reducing all internationalising contracts and contacts between the countries. it’s already all in place: the UN has China on the SecCon, the WHO treats Taiwan as almost a part of China already (at China’s insistence, naturally), and the WTO needs very little paperwork to remove Taiwan’s status as a named ‘independent’ player and allow it to act as a sub-region a la Hong Kong.
how does this help the Taiwanese directly, apart from giving them the security of being allied with a big bully rather than trying to remain separate from it? not much, for the benefits of Taiwan’s position, and the little lead we have on China will be gone, and then the people of Taiwan really will be stuck in a backward province of the big machine of China, giving their all as a kind of permanent off-shore aircraft carrier and an excuse to push the fight for mineral and fishing resources of the island chains (read ‘ocean rights’) right up to the border with Japan and the Phillipines.
They claim that it will help Taiwan, but the net benefit of Taiwan’s annexation by China will bve to China, not Taiwan, and in most likelihood, the standard of living of taiwanese will only go backwards faster than it is now, not improve.
most short sighted voters won’t think this through, under the barrage of “pretty boy” advertising and speeches, and that’s another thing the KMT can rely on. postage stamp to the rescue!
There’s more than one way to skin a chicken. Your recap of events 30 , 40 and 50 years ago is fine, but is becoming less relevant when discussing decisions that need to be made right now. Think about it, using that logic, the electorate would need to keep voting in the DPP every time, until a new party (not the old KMT) could emerge. Which could be a long, long time, great for the DPP, not so great for Taiwan I don’t think.
Besides we are talking about how effective the policies that the DPP is pursuing are, eight years in office, and the best we get is a goofy “UN for Taiwan” referendum. Taiwan is no nearer being independent now, than it was eight years ago. Many people who would love to see an independent Taiwan, might say, the DPP are going about it in the wrong way, at this moment, it’s better to keep the status quo, see what the future holds.
I also disagree with your analysis of what will happen if closer ties with China are established. I also suspect so do the majority of the Taiwan electorate, who I think are much smarter than you give them credit for. I don’t see the reason for Ma’s popularity being because he is better looking than Hsieh, this sounds more like DPP wacky reasoning that kicks in as a self defense to save them from self analysis.
It’s been the inability of the DPP to empathize with the middle ground that I believe is loosing them support, CSB understood this and made all sorts of promises, Ma seems to get this too, promising all sorts of things as well. Election promises of course, but they are so much more compelling than no dream at all, and a darn sight better than a campaign based on negativity.what status quo? look, I am not saying that the DPP is the saviour of Taiwan (no political party is yet), just that sooner or later, the KMT will surrender the island to the mainland (make of that pair of words whatever you will) and the majority of Taiwanese will suffer greatly for it. Perhaps not immediately (unless there’s a shooting war, unlikely with “reunificationists” in control), not obviously, and in many cases, not in ways that matter to them, but they will still be worse off than if they were independent. when you’re starving and a man gives you a chicken, you don’t care if he’s actually your jailer, do you? that’s the position of a great many people who claim tat China is the bee’s knees, the best thing to happen to Asia since, well, Hirohito, (oops).
have you no sense of what some may call ‘old-fashioned’ integrity left?? Even if a few Taiwanese get richer by becoming Chinese, do you REALLY think that all the shit of China will not stick here too, and make most Taiwanese people work harder and live even more miserable lives? gross pollution, environmental rape, mass migration of unskilled labour, enforced central ‘planning’ (read: corruption on a grand institutionalised scale), religious persecution, not to mention the fact that it is an abhorrent regime…
how can anybody with a brain condone joining China in any sense at all?
[quote=“urodacus”]what status quo? look, I am not saying that the DPP is the saviour of Taiwan (no political party is yet), just that sooner or later, the KMT will surrender the island to the mainland (make of that pair of words whatever you will) and the majority of Taiwanese will suffer greatly for it. Perhaps not immediately (unless there’s a shooting war, unlikely with “reunificationists” in control), not obviously, and in many cases, not in ways that matter to them, but they will still be worse off than if they were independent. when you’re starving and a man gives you a chicken, you don’t care if he’s actually your jailer, do you? that’s the position of a great many people who claim tat China is the bee’s knees, the best thing to happen to Asia since, well, Hirohito, (oops).
have you no sense of what some may call ‘old-fashioned’ integrity left?? Even if a few Taiwanese get richer by becoming Chinese, do you REALLY think that all the shit of China will not stick here too, and make most Taiwanese people work harder and live even more miserable lives? gross pollution, environmental rape, mass migration of unskilled labour, enforced central ‘planning’ (read: corruption on a grand institutionalised scale), religious persecution, not to mention the fact that it is an abhorrent regime…
how can anybody with a brain condone joining China in any sense at all?[/quote]
Oh really? If the KMT wanted to hand Taiwan over to China, why didn’t they do that during the ohhh…50 odd years they were in power?
Instead you actually believe they thought up a cunning plan, hand over power to the TI’s then try to win the presidency in a fair election and then hand it back to China. Please, see if you can’t help to make some sense out of this?
DP.
because that was then and this is now. their priorities have changed from “ROC forever” to “China forever”, a subtle shift i must admit, but one that even you should have been able to pick, mick.
I think you said earlier “Your recap of events 30 , 40 and 50 years ago is fine,” for which i thank you, but you are right, things have changed. The KMT old guard must surely be fully aware now that they have NO CHANCE of reinstating the ROC on the mainland, but they do still want to go back home to mummy, whatever it takes, and however much shit they end up having to lick from mummy’s boot.
Lets put it another way. For many when making a choice, tradeoff’s need to be made. Scaremongering is carried out by both parties, the DPP’s line is “the KMT will sellout Taiwan” and the KMT’s is “The DPP will lead Taiwan to a war” .
When voting, many people are so disgusted with both the DPP/KMT that they wont bother voting for either, some of the deep greens and deep blues buy one side of the scaremongering hook line and sinker, while dismissing the other as completely groundless. To me both these groups are as silly as the other, exhibiting the same blinkered view and prejudices.
Some in the middle will say, both of those are pretty bad and recognizing there is in fact some truth in both! Yet it is for the most part scaremongering on the part of the opposition party. However in the upcomming election and the legislative election that just went, I think some might have thought “I hear you, the KMT has had a bad history, might sell out Taiwan. But when I compare that to the downsides of the DPP, thats a chance I am willing to take” and it is the downsides of the DPP that have yet to be truly realized by themselves, and is why they are running a poor campaign. They have not understood yet!!! Seriously, beating the KMT should be a walk in the park.
I disagree also that opening trade would be bad for Taiwan, I would see direct lights as beneficial, it would make Taiwan more likely to be a regional hub, as a gateway to China. It would be good for companies like China airlies and EVA. Businesses could more easily have HQ based here and manufacturing in China, which is what many companies that were forced to move completely to China would have preferred. This is needed for Taiwanese to compete efficiently, the current policies are dragging business down and the justification of implementing these restictive policies , is misplaced.
[quote=“urodacus”][quote=“Omniloquacious”]Listening to Hsieh speaking is extremely painful, even more so than listening to Chen. Ma, in contrast, speaks beautiful, mellifluous, perfectly enunciated, flowing Chinese that is always a pleasure to the ear.
That alone should be sufficient reason for choosing one over the other to serve as national leader.[/quote][/quote]
LOL
A reason to vote for someone calling himself: ‘future president of Taiwan’, but unable to speak Taiwanese and against the independence of his own country? 
Do you know kitty is just a cartoon? It’s not real… 