[quote=“robi666”][quote=“Flipper”]
see a pattern?[/quote]
yes Flipper I see the pattern
but I don’t see the answer for my question
and I don’t see a US solution either
but thank you for being American[/quote]
huh? you asked about what kind of responsibility comes with being america. i showed that you because america is america, it is expected to solve every problem in the world. you were asking for proof of responsibility, not an us solution.
Robi:
The responsibility of being American is to lead the world, not rule the world, but to lead. If any others would step forward and give it a try, I doubt very much that we would complain but are they? I see that four nations want to get on the UN security council: Brazil, Germany, Japan and India. What have these nations done to deserve such permanent membership. What have China, Russia, Britain and France done to deserve such leadership? Just a question. Feel free to answer.
The point is that no matter what we do we will piss people off. If we act, we are criticized. If we act a different way, we are criticized. If we don’t act, we are criticized. Part of being American is to lead the world anyone despite all this nauseatingly pointless unconstructive criticism.
MT: Take a chill pill. I think that you are overreacting, but it would be nice if you would try to see the whole picture rather than just rush to attack America as being evil all the time when there is absolutely no reason to do so. The fact is Afghanistan is “better” now not “perfect.” The fact is that the Middle East is “better” now rather than “perfect” because Saddam is gone. In many ways, certain parts of Iraq are worse off then under Saddam but even in those areas, polls show the majority have hope where they did not under Saddam. So why keep sniping? Why keep up the relentless attacks on US policy? People like you criticize us for not getting the security situation in Iraq under control but then scream even louder when we attack rebel bases and sanctuaries in Fallujah, Ramadi, Buqubah and Samarra. Ergo your criticisms seem empty and posturing. Sorry but that’s how it looks from my end.
Sorry that you think my post are racist. I think that seems a bit funny if you actually look at the logic of the situation. I am saying Arabs and Muslims should be held to the same standards as the rest of the civilized world, ergo I think that they can handle doing so just as Japan and Germany and Italy and then Spain, Portugal and Greece learned to do so when the pressure was on them. Apparently, you do not think Arabs are Muslims are up to this task, ergo, they are not equal? not as advanced? not as civilized? as we are? Is that what you are trying to say?
thanks for the answer Fred
If you want to lead you have to take criticism and try to give a good example, especially when it comes to international agreements.
You don’t even belief in the UN so please don’t use it as an example. It is weired if you just call the UN if the outcome is in your favor, but to overrule it if the UN vote is against your interest.
What makes you think the world need leadership? Or where did US intervention actually improve the situation?
@ Flipper
Who expects America to solve the problems of the world? By the way are you America or American?
[quote=“robi666”]@ Flipper
Who expects America to solve the problems of the world? By the way are you America or American?[/quote]
i thought i was being pretty clear in my post. the rest of the world expects america to solve the problems of the world.
Robi:
Well I would say the US acted with good faith in the UN. Tony Blair convinced us to go there and we did. By the way, how long does one have to wait for the UN to do something? I mean 12 years and 17 resolutions and working on an 18th? Give me a break. As to the rest of the world, I recall that France and Germany were most keen to act in Bosnia and Kosovo and that both did so without UN approval. Interesting?
I recall that all the lead editorials in Germany, France and Europe were shrieking for the US to do something from 1992-1995. Remember? Not so long ago, then we were hounded for doing nothing in Rwanda but your precious UN which had learned its lesson just a few months ago with its mea culpa visit by Annan now wants to debate what “genocide” means rather than do anything about Sudan. No?
Finally, since you are German, I would be very curious to find out what the reaction on the streets of whatever city you live in is regarding America and American actions in Iraq. Is this a class thing, age thing, profession thing, urban vs. rural thing in Germany? What is going on? I would say that 30% of Germany still strongly supports America while 30% are angry ex-communist socialist green types like Schroeder and Fischer for whom America is the No. 1 evil and finally the other 40% blow in the wind depending on how the polls and newspapers excite and stimulate their outrage. We see the same things in the US, but which party do you think will win in 2006?
Just curious. Thanks for your time and response.
The rest of the world??? Which is the part that is taken way before we have the rest? Thank you for your clear answer.
2006 in Germany, difficult to say. I was very sure that Schroeder would lose the 2002 election, but he was lucky that the flooding in east Germany occurred. I hope nature will not favor him a second time.
But CDU or CSU do not have common candidate yet. I think there will be a new chancellor after the election. But we will see if either you or me will like it.
Now to the UN. You are right, it is of no use because is does not do anything, there is always one nation that will veto any decision. And yes the biggest prove for the UNs uselessness was Ruanda.
But why do you bring up the UN all the time, as you don’t like them anyway. I think there are more important international agreements and treaties than the UN.
So now for the “axis of evil”. I guess your numbers can be right, in my opinion most Germans don’t care about the US and its foreign policy. There were some demonstrations against the war. Most of them must have been in Berlin or the east, as people have more time to join demonstrations there.
Maybe most Germans are Daoists and follow the principle of WuWei. I saw a picture of Schmidtbauer when he was in China, posing in front of the 2 characters.
Then let me ask you Robi…
Finally, domestically, what do you think Germany’s biggest problems are now? What do most Germans, if different from your answer, think those problems are? Who is best able to solve them, how will they be solved? What about Angela Merkel? Someone else? Where do you live by the way, and do you think that German politics are also very regional in focus and in which concerns people think about?
What is the impression of the United States in Germany? Bush? American foreign policy in the Middle East?
What is the impression for the same regarding France, the EU and Russia?
Sorry, just very curious.
I am, well at least I was, a huge Atlanticist by upbringing and in terms of personal philosophy for so many years that this breakdown had me first in shock, then quite resentful and now resigned and dismissive of many of our European allies. I sense that I am not alone and that many in Europe would just as soon be rid of the US. Unfortunate at least for Germany, Belgium and perhaps Spain but not for the UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Scandinavia, Baltics, Eastern Europe and Italy/Portugal though I wonder how long the latter can remain so steadfastly supportive of American foreign policy. Doesn’t seem to be a natural current in their psychological makeup.
here you go Fred
The gravest security threat comes from inside. Extreme Turkish believers who can not follow their religion in Turk. Germany is more liberal in that. Once you call something a church you can do almost everything behind closed doors.
As for Germany’s allies the sounding neighbors should be enough. Except for that Germany should try to find allies in countries that do not focus on strike first.
International peacekeeping is an illusion. It can only work by threat. Peter Scholl-Latour promotes that a lot. I don’t think Germany should take part in such actions, not with soldiers and not with money either.
Biggest problems in Germany now: Abuse of the welfare system and unemployment, and of course the gap between west and east.
Angela Merkel, did you ever see her picture? There still is Stoiber as a candidate for the same party.
I live either in Cologne or Taichung, but i spend a lot of time traveling.
After the first demonstrations against the US strikes in Iraq the US embassy announced an image campaign concerning the US foreign policy. I personally liked that a lot, because it showed the US attitude.
[quote=“robi666”]
The rest of the world??? Which is the part that is taken way before we have the rest? Thank you for your clear answer.[/quote]
i’m not sure i understand your second sentence.
let’s concentrate on germany, shall we?
north korea
iran
india/pakistan
sudan
israel/palestine
those are some of the most visible issues in the international arena today. please describe german policy for ANY of them that does not necessitate the us taking a lead role in resolving the conflict.
Well i still don’t know which part of the word actually wants the US to lead it, but never mind.
No crisis in north Korea, only people starving there, but that happens in many other countries as well.
Iran has inner problems, if a change should happen there it should be started by their own people. By the way i support very much that Iran finally started to quote the oil price in euro.
India and Pakistan’s conflict occurred since the the British followed the plan to divide the country. The same pretty much goes for Israel and Palestine as well.
Nothing an outsider can do about that. Or do you think the US engagement in the UN improved the situation for the people of Palestine.
And last for the Sudan. Sad to say but genocide happens all the time. It just is human nature i guess. Do you want to stop killing with killing?
So as you see those are not urgent topics to be discussed.
Robi:
I am curious but confused. You seem dismissive of the UN and other “talkfests” but yet resentful at America for striking first and asking questions later.
Would you characterize our 12 years in the UN as recklessly striking out against Saddam? Would you call our 20 plus years of negotiations with North Korea cowboy diplomacy?
I believe that you may have absorbed some stereotyped characterizations of the US administration.
Why do you dislike Angela Merkel for the way she looks? Do you not believe that she could be the one to get reform measures passed in Germany? Do you think that Schroeder has? Do you believe Stoiber has the necessary oomph to do so? Just curious.
[quote]
I am curious but confused. You seem dismissive of the UN and other “talkfests” but yet resentful at America for striking first and asking questions later.[/quote]
I think UN has proven that is is useless. There are more important international agreements than that. Of course the US did not join or ratify.
[quote]
Would you characterize our 12 years in the UN as recklessly striking out against Saddam? Would you call our 20 plus years of negotiations with North Korea cowboy diplomacy? [/quote]
After years of UN inspections and search for weapons, were was the danger to the world?
And for Korea i still dont see the threat to the world.
[quote]
Why do you dislike Angela Merkel for the way she looks? [/quote]
What do you expect here?
[quote]
Do you not believe that she could be the one to get reform measures passed in Germany? Do you think that Schroeder has? Do you believe Stoiber has the necessary oomph to do so? Just curious.[/quote]
No to all
Even Hans Blix to my knowledge believed that Iraq was hiding something. Regardless it was not up to the Americans to prove anything. Saddam had to prove that he was compliant. We did not have to turn the country upside down to find anything. This important distinction is often lost in these arguments. He was on probation. The very terms of the ceasefire treaty ending the first Gulf War required that he prove he was compliant. He did not, ergo 12 years later the ceasefire was terminated.
Korea is not a threat… I would say that Japan, South Korea, the US, Russia and even China beg to differ. Given his history of nuclear and arms proliferation, I think we all have a very serious threat on our hands. That is why we acted to prevent Iraq from becoming a similar one.
So who will reform Germany? I wouldn’t mind having either Merkel or Stoiber. Ironically enough, many Germans criticize Bush for not being someone they can work with when I would argue exactly the same in the case of Schroeder and Fischer but at least they have been reined in by the military and foreign policy establishment which has more sense. Regardless the worst German administration is still better than dealing with the best French one.
Well i don’t know what Hans Blix believed, but to my knowledge he did not support the war.
China does not worry about north Korea.
And as all politicians are rent seekers, they all fail to reform.
But still no peace or democracy in Afghanistan, just to come back to the original idea of the tread.
[quote=“robi666”]Well I still don’t know which part of the word actually wants the US to lead it, but never mind.
No crisis in north Korea, only people starving there, but that happens in many other countries as well.
Iran has inner problems, if a change should happen there it should be started by their own people. By the way i support very much that Iran finally started to quote the oil price in euro.
India and Pakistan’s conflict occurred since the the British followed the plan to divide the country. The same pretty much goes for Israel and Palestine as well.
Nothing an outsider can do about that. Or do you think the US engagement in the UN improved the situation for the people of Palestine.
And last for the Sudan. Sad to say but genocide happens all the time. It just is human nature I guess. Do you want to stop killing with killing?
So as you see those are not urgent topics to be discussed.[/quote]
so the german attitude is “do nothing, these are not real problems”? 
you are wrong.
I don’t know about the german attitude, but i try to follow the principle of Daoism.
Poverty,hunger and inequality sure are severe problems, but i don’t see how the US engagement is could improve this.
Robi:
Maybe you had better ask the lives of 4.5 million external and internal refugees that have returned home in Afghanistan and Iraq. New reports put the number returning to Afghanistan at 3.5 million now. Ask the Eastern European nations which are now free of communism and the Baltic states which are free about how economic growth and freedom are delivering prosperity. Ask East Asia about how life under the US security umbrella has allowed them to develop and become rich. Ask Central America which is now growing free of the threat of communist insurgency. Compare growth rates where the US is absent (Cuba and North Korea). Talk to India and Pakistan which are living in relatively more peaceful times after nearly coming to nuclear war five years ago. Ask the millions who try to immigrate legally or illegally to the US every year and ask the families of those earning paychecks in the US who receive money from them about how the US is helping poverty. I think that you will find some very strong answers here. Total US money spent on AIDS prevention equals 70% of the world total. Didn’t know that I’ll bet either. Where is the rest of the world? This does NOT include the incredible advances that American pharmaceutical companies have made which is then either stolen or given away in the form of generic drugs to poor nations. I would say that America is one of the absolutely key contributors to world prosperity. What would you say?