31,000 NTD Job Offer - WTF

Ah, but you’re making a super-common mistake: you’re assuming that anyone can TELL there are errors in the English. They can’t, in 99.99% of cases.

This is a reasonable salary in their minds based on his passport nationality. He’s not bilingual, and can be replaced at any time by anyone else who gets off the plane. Sorry, but in their way of thinking, it’s true. Or better yet, can be replaced by the nephew of the boss, once he finishes up his time at [insert name of third-tier university here, or perhaps worse yet, insert name of good university here] where he’s taking English Literature classes.

[quote=“ironlady”]Ah, but you’re making a super-common mistake: you’re assuming that anyone can TELL there are errors in the English. They can’t, in 99.99% of cases.

This is a reasonable salary in their minds based on his passport nationality. He’s not bilingual, and can be replaced at any time by anyone else who gets off the plane. Sorry, but in their way of thinking, it’s true. Or better yet, can be replaced by the nephew of the boss, once he finishes up his time at [insert name of third-tier university here, or perhaps worse yet, insert name of good university here] where he’s taking English Literature classes.[/quote]

You have been here too long Ironlady (irony lady !) and you are so correct. I have tried to point out/help with mistakes on text before. “Nobody in Taiwan will notice” was the answer!.Which begs the question,why bother?. :frowning:

You do realize that not all countries grant citizenship on where you are born. Some require you to have a parent who is a citizen of that country. I don’t think that Taiwan grants citizenship to children born in Taiwan if they have two foreign parents.

No.

  1. Indonesia does not have birthright citizenship.
  2. If neither parent is an Indonesian citizen, their children can’t be Indonesian citizens.
  3. Indonesia does not allow for dual citizenship past the age of 18.

In order to become an Indonesian citizen, he’d be required to give up his Taiwanese and his Indian citizenship. He’s not about to do that! :unamused:

Taiwan also has no birthright citizenship. If an American and a Canadian have a child in Taiwan, the child can be a dual US/Canadian citizen, but can’t be a Taiwanese citizen.

You do realize that not all countries grant citizenship on where you are born. Some require you to have a parent who is a citizen of that country. I don’t think that Taiwan grants citizenship to children born in Taiwan if they have two foreign parents.[/quote]

Or citizenship to those born of a foreign dad/ local mom before 1986.

  1. Indonesia does not allow for dual citizenship past the age of 18.
    In order to become an Indonesian citizen, he’d be required to give up his Taiwanese and his Indian citizenship. He’s not about to do that! :unamused:
    [/quote]

Aye, I dropped my Indonesia passport when I was 10 and left the country.

I managed to get the offer up to 35k in the end. And accepted it. Still feel a little cheated but I guess that’s just my foreign mentality and will overcome that. Bearing in mind that this is my 1st full-time job

But the problem of “nobody will see it anyways” annoys the crap out of me. Shouldn’t a company trying to go global focus on Language as their key communication tool? Language is everything! For example; when I exited my local Carrefour, I saw the sign “Thanks You for Shpping” I was like W.T.F these are basic words… I shop at Welcome now :wink:

  1. Indonesia does not allow for dual citizenship past the age of 18.
    In order to become an Indonesian citizen, he’d be required to give up his Taiwanese and his Indian citizenship. He’s not about to do that! :unamused:
    [/quote]

Aye, I dropped my Indonesia passport when I was 10 and left the country.

I managed to get the offer up to 35k in the end. And accepted it. Still feel a little cheated but I guess that’s just my foreign mentality and will overcome that. Bearing in mind that this is my 1st full-time job

But the problem of “nobody will see it anyways” annoys the crap out of me. Shouldn’t a company trying to go global focus on Language as their key communication tool? Language is everything! For example; when I exited my local Carrefour, I saw the sign “Thanks You for Shpping” I was like W.T.F these are basic words… I shop at Welcome now :wink:[/quote]

I thought it was Wellcome? :whistle: :laughing:

You are assuming they do see language as a communication tool and not just an accessory to show off. That is why people here write in the most elaborate style and use words digged out from the dephts of the dictionary: to show off what they allegedly know. That is why when the native does not understand, they can turn all miffled and state that your English is not as good and start eroding yor position. In business, English is a decorative sticker applied to impress locals, not to help furriners buy the stuff. No need to do so when China is around the corner.

And yes, Icon started her Monday very happily and got stick with someone’s third cousin Google translation revision again… sigh

Everything Icon said goes for Chinese, too. It’s amazing how poor some people’s writing skills can be even in their own native language. The general mentality for English is that if you can figure out what it means, it’s correct enough.

So you’re Taiwanese, with a TW passport, and you’re getting a TW salary. What’s the issue? You want more, make yourself worth it.

My first job in Taiwan more than 10 years ago paid the same, I didn’t last more than six months but it allowed to get a better job then. Remember there has been inflation since so Taiwan’s pay is really lagging. I’d say depending on the OPs situation he could suck it up for a little bit while getting experience and looking for something higher paid. It’s not always an advantage to have a Taiwanese passport, employers here are cheapskates who will cut down your salary once they have any type of leverage. The fact is the OP is really more a foreigner with a Taiwanese passport, he should be able to bring something different to the table.
The other things mentioned above are true, English editing is not going to pay much of itself, you will get better pay in Taiwan if you are experienced in sales, marketing, engineering, design, regulatory etc. You could use this position to learn more about some of these.

[quote=“hs172”]

Aye, I dropped my Indonesia passport when I was 10 and left the country.

I managed to get the offer up to 35k in the end. And accepted it. Still feel a little cheated but I guess that’s just my foreign mentality and will overcome that. Bearing in mind that this is my 1st full-time job

But the problem of “nobody will see it anyways” annoys the crap out of me. Shouldn’t a company trying to go global focus on Language as their key communication tool? Language is everything! For example; when I exited my local Carrefour, I saw the sign “Thanks You for Shpping” I was like W.T.F these are basic words… I shop at Welcome now :wink:[/quote]

I’m a bit surprised that you managed to negotiate them up to NT$35k. That probably means that they really want you on board. I would recommend adopting a humble attitude and don’t express any views like the one you just did about “a company trying to go global focus on Language as their key communication tool? Language is everything!” Listen and try to learn as much as you can about the people in the office and what the company actually does as opposed to its propaganda about what it would like to be. Respect your coworkers and try to find ways to help them out. If you do these things and if the company has a real growing business, you just might learn something and make this entry level job into something worthwhile.

The more likely scenario, based on your naivete and attitude, is that you will be mercilessly undercut by the Taiwanese coworkers you alienate, given all the crap work as a result, and will return to these boards complaining about how the Taiwanese don’t get it.

Good luck!

Sometimes I feel like the members of this forum overstate the value of being a native English speaker.

[quote=“foc”] I’m a bit surprised that you managed to negotiate them up to NT$35k. That probably means that they really want you on board. I would recommend adopting a humble attitude and don’t express any views like the one you just did about “a company trying to go global focus on Language as their key communication tool? Language is everything!” Listen and try to learn as much as you can about the people in the office and what the company actually does as opposed to its propaganda about what it would like to be. Respect your coworkers and try to find ways to help them out. If you do these things and if the company has a real growing business, you just might learn something and make this entry level job into something worthwhile.

The more likely scenario, based on your naivete and attitude, is that you will be mercilessly undercut by the Taiwanese coworkers you alienate, given all the crap work as a result, and will return to these boards complaining about how the Taiwanese don’t get it.

Good luck! [/quote]

I hope MY attitude isn’t a bad one, I am respecting/integrating with the local workforce to the best of my ability. The work environment & people are all fantastic and I’d like to think that I get along really well. But yes, thanks for the advice sir. Will Listen & Learn

I don’t know about other members, but I can say that for me personally; that’s the only genuine skill that I can bring at the end of the day.

This perspective and overall advice of this nature is what made me accept it. There’s no denying the fact that I’m inexperienced in practical stuff as opposed to all the theory they shove down your throat in University

I didn’t really understand what level the offer was. As I just came back from England, 31,000/month sounded a lot less than what I was expecting. THAT was the issue, the salary/ month amount. I don’t deny I’m inexperienced, so no issues there. Is it wrong for a brother to want more than what locals get? I’d like to think that having such an International background, and experience in working in different countries (albeit small ones) can let me bring something unique to a business.

It’s not uniqueness companies want, they want to see what value you can bring. It’s common for new grads to work for low pay or as interns, so keep that in mind and use this position to move onwards and upwards.

[quote=“hs172”]

I didn’t really understand what level the offer was. As I just came back from England, 31,000/month sounded a lot less than what I was expecting. THAT was the issue, the salary/ month amount. I don’t deny I’m inexperienced, so no issues there. Is it wrong for a brother to want more than what locals get? I’d like to think that having such an International background, and experience in working in different countries (albeit small ones) can let me bring something unique to a business.[/quote]
You are a local (at least to them). But no harm in trying.

Congratulations on getting your 35k. I guess now you can appreciate why some Taiwanese will do anything to work overseas where they at least “hope” they can get paid more and have a better chance to develop their career.

I’m looking to GTFO too …after the army :aiyo:
Where I will be eligible for those Juicy Abroad Work Visas :blush:
You still need a sponsor from abroad but it’s much easier after the army.

[quote=“divea”][quote=“hs172”]

I didn’t really understand what level the offer was. As I just came back from England, 31,000/month sounded a lot less than what I was expecting. THAT was the issue, the salary/ month amount. I don’t deny I’m inexperienced, so no issues there. Is it wrong for a brother to want more than what locals get? I’d like to think that having such an International background, and experience in working in different countries (albeit small ones) can let me bring something unique to a business.[/quote]
You are a local (at least to them). But no harm in trying.[/quote]

Why would they think of him as a local? I’ve worked with ABC’s or other Taiwanese who were brought up overseas and have Taiwanese passports. I can’t think of anyone who thinks of them as locals.

The Taiwanese will feel it is. First of all, by applying on your Taiwan passport, you are holding yourself out as a ‘local’. You will be treated the same as a result. You should tread very carefully in this area. Taiwan is a highly egalitarian society. It is important to fit in. If you claim to be somehow special when they think you are or should be Taiwanese, you will really piss people off.

[quote]
I’d like to think that having such an International background, and experience in working in different countries (albeit small ones) can let me bring something unique to a business.[/quote]

You’d like to think that and you might even be right. However, the Taiwanese, despite paying lip service to internationalization, have very little interest in doing what is necessary to internationalize. In general, they know how to run their businesses very well themselves and they will not brook interference from the ‘internationally minded’ unless of course the newbie happens to be related to the boss (BTW, be very careful to figure this out if it is not a huge company).

You may well be able to hekp out. But you will need for wait for opportunities to do so and to be incremental about any changes.

The Taiwanese have a saying about the new monk who bangs the gong loudly. It is not a compliment.