31% of Taiwanese earn less than NT$30,000; 10% earn over NT$61,000 per month

Advantech and Foxconn are leaders in automation, so in theory industry 4.0 could be OK for Taiwan. Taiwanese companies are leading in a lot of the robotics that will shape the future.

My main hope is with the Google purchase of the HTC R&D unit. Taiwanese staff are horrendously undervalued. You can see in the States that when Taiwanese workers go through the finishing school of US graduate programs and get proper management, they turn into superstars. There is nothing specifically wrong with Taiwanese staff on a genetic level, just abysmal management

Iā€™m hoping that Google do well and other companies see the value in Taiwanese staff and move hardware operations here. Expecting change from Taiwanese industry or their lackeys in government is hopeless.

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Yeah the multi-million dollar corporation with the bosses friends daughter who once studied in the America doing the Facebook page.

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Which I talked with you about before, i got laughed out of insurance companies in Taiwan at the thought of hiring me, so I went away thinking they are just not international.

Wrongā€¦

My local friend got a job at an insurer in Taiwan , going to America and Europe promoting their product in Taiwan. His English is passable but not really that good. And they wonder why when he returns no deals were signed.

I asked quite a few multinationals if they have any foreigners on staff, was told no almost every time

Unless Iā€™m looking Iā€™m the wrong place

I was wrong. TWD manipulation is back on track. Gotta keep the OEM economy competitive.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2017/12/09/2003683650

Depends where you live if you are single or not, have children etc.
Single in Taipei with 30,000 is very bad. 30,000 in Tainan is ok, even for a single person.

The article does not mention the figures for Taipei only.

Here is what I think from someone who went to local schools here and have worked here for sometime. Why are people here making 30k or less, because they honestly are not adding much value to anything. The problem with Taiwan is, from the time of a childā€™s education begins to entering the work force, they are offered a very linear path with not much wiggle room or incentive to divulge from this linear path that pumps out clone robotic workers that add zero value to the company. The Steve jobs, Elon musks, Bill gates of Taiwan have either had their spirits broken and made to conform into the education system or are now selling bubble team at a night market.

There is almost no incentive and value or reward to people who want to do things outside of school. Kids have zero time to pursue their own hobbies have free time, so parents and kids are forced to make the choice in competing in school with all their time vs giving their child a chance to pursue things that may or may not pay off. For example, my sister used to love watching movies, especially old classic movies from famous directors in our home theater. She would do that all day and look up information and knowledge on film. I thought it was stupid, I pursued other things with my time like sports and entertainment. Now she has a great job at warner brothers in the US, do you think Taiwanese parents will be keen on letting their child watch classic black and white movies or force them into buxibans to do well on tests? Even when I got back here, I can make 1500 a hour because of my experience with sports, playing and working out with college and pro athletes and trainers. My knowledge of training and playing was valuable here, because few people have it, and for the small percentage of people who wish to gain it, they are willing to pay a lot for it. But at the end of the day, sports are not a valuable interest in Taiwan with high rewards. You donā€™t get scholarships for free education here if you happen to be good. Players get 1 year contracts here and paid little with no help if they injured. Not just players, even one sports team like the Yankees. Think of how much jobs a single sports franchise brings, the people building yankee stadium. Players, coaches, front office, marketing, sales, promoting, security, analyst, photographers, journalist. You donā€™t even have to be an athlete to make money from a interest in sports. Some of my friends write for ESPN and such that never played on a school team. Can you say that Taiwan offers that same opportunity?

You think kids here have a chance to take apart a car engine, build and alarm clock, write code, make a simple video game, go take pictures, etc. The system is backwards and will never build anyone with innovation, they teach you this is a wrench and this is a screw, instead of hey this is a car engine. Lets take it apart, well what do you need to take this screw off, a wrench.

With so few incentives outside of the ā€œsafeā€ path, no wonder you pump out thousands of generic workers who are not able to add any value to the business besides being told what to do. Thats why they get 30k or less.

Half the kids here are better off going to a trade school.

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Taiwan does have it fair share of people moving away. But the conditions are not so bad here that people who are educated and educated abroad donā€™t come back. Many actually return and a lot of new services and small businesses are from ABCs/ABTs that return. There is money here and if you are capable, there is opportunity. And there is a huge market for new and foreign stuff in Taiwan. But you must be willing to go outside of the traditional safe entry level jobs taiwan offers.

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Which was one of the key elements to TWā€™s ā€œeconomic miracle.ā€ Chiang sent people out to learn, and they came back with what they learned.

I agree, but manufacturing is getting more and more automated, as is the service industry.

How many carpenters, plumbers, electricians can TW support?

It might be anecdotal but from my own experiences working in a factory floor and visiting many factories my dadā€™s company had in taiwan and china. The automation may not be like how people imagined. Iā€™m sure certain industries itā€™s more true. But tech companies like my dads still hires a lot of people in the factory. Especially when business is good, and factories and machinery had to run 24 hours to hit targets. They actually struggle to hire and train enough people to work in the factory. Thereā€™s only so much automation that can be done, or maybe itā€™s actually more costly to get more automated machines vs labor here taiwan. I mean if you can pay someone about 1k usd a month vs a multimillion machinery here. The manufacturing industry might not be as quick to switch towards more automation vs unions in the US that demand higher wages.

Sure sure, Iā€™m not saying itā€™s a final solution. I was just making a point that trade school for some would be better and more reasonable than come people who graduated with no real skill set to bring into the workforce and could be replaced by anyone.

Itā€™s already hard enough to get a job in your perspective field of study. Let alone a bunch of other really useless majors that probably isnā€™t going to be useful in what job you get.

Taiwanā€™s ā€œsecret weaponā€ is the fact that if youā€™re an innovator with technical skills and the ability to transplant Taiwan is a paradise. Its clusters of low cost, nimble manufacturing infrastructure allow you to experiment and produce much faster and cheaper than anywhere in the West. Iā€™ve accomplished far more here than I ever did living and working in the U.S. and itā€™s only getting more so as manufacturing continues to hollow out in North America and Europe. A lot of manufacturing know how has even effectively vanished in the U.S. but remains alive and well in Taiwan.

Whatā€™s somewhat baffled me is why more innovators in the West havenā€™t transplanted to Taiwan to take advantage of its opportunities and resources but continue to struggle to create new products in North Americaā€™s anemic, high cost manufacturing environment.

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Taiwan Could become a hub for hardware startups but the government restricts foreign investment.

As I said, my hope is that if Google succeed with the HTC R&D team they purchased, a cluster will spring up of foreign tech companies in Taiwan

The Taiwan government has never been an impediment to me setting up and doing business in Taiwan, It takes me thirty seconds to get in and out of the country when traveling on business and thatā€™s typical of everything else I do here.

If Elon Musk had decided to start up Tesla in Taiwan rather than the San Francisco Bay Area heā€™d long ago have been in mass production in Taiwan and China. Choosing California instead of all places may end up being the death of Tesla.

Iā€™ve put comparison to Russia for these reasons:

  1. Russia is also a ā€œdemocraticā€ regime. The rest you can see and just described. Calling for ā€œDEMUCRAZY ā€˜Nā€™ FREEDUMS!ā€ as a solution for problems is useless, because, well, democracy doesnā€™t really work here and there, itā€™s just a fancy name. In reality you submit, conform and obey.
  2. Main economic problem with Russia: bosses drain their employees, while keeping majority of capital abroad, in Europe/States. Itā€™s a fricking rich country with poor people living in. Same as here. Salaries and prices level was even the same with Russia in Taiwan 3 years ago, before Russia decided to play some war plus oil prices went down.
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:eek:

Is there one? @discobot fortune

:crystal_ball: Very doubtful

Thatā€™s reassuringā€¦ I guess. :thinking:

Actually he did.

The first prototypes Tesla (roadster?) were supposedly manufactured here in Taiwan.

I have been around in better slavic countries (poland, czech and slovenia) and median after tax income hardly reaching 30k twd. Taiwan is way better, even better than czech (lived in both place), although czech making fairly decent progress. However czech do have better life balance, including cheaper housing, cheaper groceries and ofc better beer. And I did not end up in hospital there cause of food:slight_smile:

Russia, really is third league to all of those countries

Not really, better Pilsner and cheaper, that I canā€™t deny, but beer overall I doubt. We have her 120 Belgian beers in the fridge.