Its not cynical, it is extacly what happened but that is the old approach to immigration in east asia as a whole. Things are changing in most of them, some slower some faster, all of them face serious demographic problems and they know they need immigrants. Taiwan is the only one that actually wants them too, at least thats how i feel.
Yeah it could work out well for me too, doesnāt mean I think itās a particularly good policy or system.
Woah there! 
An interpreter is provided for free, when the court is actually in session. The quality of interpretation is variable. You can also find English speakers among the litigation counselors (information desk people) and other court staff, sometimes.
Unless I missed something, all court applications and briefs are written in Chinese (and need to have the correct margin size), with no free translation service.
The winning side (normally) gets a refund on the litigation fee i.e. the court fee, which the losing side pays. This would be the $3000 of which you speak, so if youāve already paid, no problem. The loser not paying the winnerās costs refers only to the other fees, for lawyers etc.
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Are you allowed to pooh-pooh your boss online like that?
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Yes, itās called the birth lottery, and we have all played it.
For me a crappy translation will be enough as I have all but given up trying to get them to see the light and I doubt a judge will side with me against the government so Iām not going to devote a lot of resources to it like lawyers and translators. Basically go and say my peace and see what happens.
I have friends that can help me translate the court documents. I can afford to pay the $3000 fee as I feel I am right however I know they will never agree with a foreigner over the govt.
At least I wonāt need to pay any additional costs.
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I think thereās a residency requirement, no? I have friend (US citizen) whose Chinese wife gave up her US green card because they were living in China and didnāt have enough time to be in the US long enough for her to keep it.
for greencard, need to reside at least 183+ days of the year in the US.
that does NOT mean greencard holder can reside sub-182 days outside of US. One can, but a reasonable amount of days (can google for stories).
Customs will query on why so long outside the US.
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So, whatās going on now. Itās election time and the legislative candidates actually approach is in the night marketās and stuff. They ask, did you get your citizenship yet? Can you vote.
Their English is about as good as my Chinese but these seem to not quite get the concept when I try to explain that we foreigners have to give up our own of citizenship yet our other family members and children can pick up passports left and right.
Of course thereās no time to launch into a lesson, not that I could anyway with my language abilities.
I think that if we had an organization like the spouses support Network we used to have, the time is right for the spouses of citizens to finally get the citizenship they should have.
Remember, not too long ago we couldnāt get a full term driverās licence, the longer term visas or even the right to work while on a spouse sponsored visa. All those reforms were made to strengthen the family.
After all the S**@t we were put through, the idea of this special foreigner who was either rich or just a media star felt like a kick in the gut.
Iām living in a hillbilly town and in addition to picking up side jobs, my job is to take care of the kids while the spouse commutes. This is how we are rewarded?
Ok, rant over .
Is there any foreigner who is well versed in Chinese and the law as the guy who was the former leader of our group in addition to being the legal forum moderate of this group was. He used spend hours lobbying the legislature for us as well as creating photocopy ready legal appeal forms that helped us win administrative appeals against the restrictive laws we faced then.
Iām interested in joining such a group, please PM me if you are.
Who remembers this? I do. I was one of the many people who benefitted from his appeals process.
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Even if you fulfill the residency requirement in TAIWAN you still cannot get the passport. Even if you have been working all the years meanwhile holding a spouse visa you ALSO cannot get the citizenship. Basically you are worth as crap regardless if you are a white colar professional or anything. If you are a spouse you are marked for life, as downgraded that is.
So, Taiwan rewards foreign workers without ties here but treat the parents and spouses of their citizens as crap and forever outsiders. The irony!
I would have no problem with residency requirements and even with work requirement. Say they require you live in Taiwan for N number of years and in those years you would have to be employed N number of years . It is fine for me. Not ideal but whatever. Instead we donāt get even that!
I have friends who hate Taiwan and donāt intend to stay decades here and/or die here but they get better benefits than spouses. Unbelievable!
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Iām currently away but myself and another poster here intended to send letters to the legislators to bring this to their attention. When im ready to do this Iām considering making a different post. If we had enough complaints like the Ubike issue, Iām sure the problem would be solved.
Just letting you know if you want to join the fight.
A lot of us complain but itās time we took stronger action. But we need strength in numbers
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Exactly.
That is the most bizarre and discriminatory part of the whole process. That there are further residency requirements AFTER getting the bloody passport. You can be in the country twenty yearsā¦Nope not good enough have to stay in the country for
Can double-check this but IIRC
1 year no exit or one week or something
2 years less than 3 months exit
5 years canāt rememberā¦
What an arse of a bloody law.
I know somebody who knew somebody (not precisely first-hand info) who had obtained the passport but had some kind of family emergency and wanted to leave Taiwan for something like a week.
They were told if they did, they lost the Taiwan passport, which would have resulted in being stateless as they had already given up their previous passport.
I believe this kind of law is intentional though have nothing to prove it. Come in if you have no ties but youāre not supposed to stay.
I could be mistaken and itās simply a homogeneous country full of policymakers who have no idea what they are doing but am not sure.
I would be all in to send letters at the same time and having a thread here specifically for that also. I am on call
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And all this having to first give up your original passport. Meanwhile Taiwanese get citizenships left and right in the worldā¦
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Taiwan policies towards foreigner for me are like this:
- welcome tourists
- welcome students
- welcome professionals, make it difficult for them to even get credit cards, making them handicapped depending on Taiwanese people or companies, no personal credit etc, no ability to buy property here unless you pay full in cash. In summary, letās make their Iife easy with safety and convenience like mrt and night markets but letās make the real important stuff so hard they wonāt want to spend more than 5-7 years here. Thatās good enough because they already gave their best here and will not steal Taiwanese people spot in the corporate ladder. So they get tired and leave.
- better donāt have those lower class (aka foreigners) blood mix up with ours. And if they do, letās make them being stamped as outsiders forever in their life here. Unless they give up their passport. But who in their right mind would do that? I donāt see Taiwanese people giving up their to apply for countries who have such requirements
- lastly, letās have bread and circus policy, give them a small win (aka ubike and similar) so they forget the big stuff going on
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Sorry. Not accurate. Hereās how it was the last time I was aware.
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You renounce your citizenship and you become a Taiwan National, but not a citizen and youāre on a TARC for a year until you can get citizenship, id card, household registration.
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You can get a Taiwan passport during your TARC period and you can leave Taiwan. However, if you do, then when you come back, you must start all over again in TARC status.
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Andā¦if I remember correctly, if you do leave during your 1 year TARC (prison sentence), you have to do double duty of 2 years on TARC before you can get full citizenship.
I had a client renounce US citizenship and 6 months into his TARC period his mother died and he wanted to go back to the US for the funeral. I helped him get his Taiwan passport based on his TARC, but he was told that if he left during his TARC period that when he returned it would be a 2 year TARC waiting period for full citizenship. He opted not to return the US for his motherās funeral. He decided to suck it up and finish his final 6 month and then return to the US as āSheād still be dead anyway!ā.
But, thenā¦1 month before completing his TARC period, someone purposely filed a frivolous lawsuit against him and his status was held in limbo until his legal case was settled 9 months later when he could finally get his citizenship. So, his TARC period was 1 year and 9 months! After that, he left Taiwan for 2 years before he came back!
Yepā¦the Taiwanese can find all sorts of ways to screw around with us and our lives. They appear to want the Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian and mainland wives to get Taiwanese citizenship easily, but not the rest of us!
I could be wrong, but I thought that you donāt have to show you renounced the original nationality untill it comes time to acquire the full non overseas passport?
So you can have the overseas passport + original passport for the limbo year.
No. At least not at the time and I donāt see the Taiwanese changing ANYTHING which makes sense or would make things easier for us!
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Client renounced his US citizenship at the AIT, I was there.
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The AIT kept his US passport, but gave him a certified true copy, so he could return a week later to obtain his State Department approval of renunciation.
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He returned to the AIT, his US passport was stamped invalid and got two holes punched into it for good measure.
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He was stateless at this time.
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He took his paperwork to his local HHR office and submitted his application for his TARC.
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A week later, he returned to his HHR office to get his TARC and paperwork. At this time he was a Taiwan National, but not a citizen.
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He was required to maintain TARC status as a stateless person for 1 year.
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He was eligible for a TARC based passport, but not a citizenās passport.
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After his 1 year and 9 additional months wait, due to the BS lawsuit, he was able to get his Taiwan citizenship.
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He had to turn in his TARC based passport and apply for a citizen passport with his actual Taiwan ID.
I was there. I processed this entire nightmare.
Has it changed? Can someone on a TARC now get a full citizen passport? Not likely as the TARC number is not, or was not at the time, the same as his actual ultimate ID number.
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yes, and no.
You can get a TARC without renouncing the overseas passport. Then, basically should submit a proof of renouncing within a year, otherwise you would lose the TARC. Then, you apply for your citizenship.
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Thatās how I feel too. Because I see only people from these countries blindly giving up their passports as soon as they can to get the Taiwanese one. Unfortunately, many of them donāt even have professional prospect in Taiwan and are just baby factories or even no autonomy in the family circle. The other nationalities spouses I have contacted are much more hesitant in giving up their passport because they are not Asian, want their future kids to have double nationality, or just plain think it is unfair because in their country Taiwanese people can get their passport without having to give up Taiwan citizenship. Not to mention the relevance of such big countries in the world scene.
It is really a complete mess this situation. They need to fix it. Even if they put the requirements harder, like longer residency or whatever they want to think, thatās ok. But at least give us the ability to apply.
It is really unfair that people living here and working here for 10-15-20 years but because they made the āmistakeā (taiwan policies make it look like that) of getting married to one of the citizens than you are in limbo forever for passport eligibility. Hey guys, us aka taiwan, prefer to give passports to professionals new comers who didnāt spend that long here and/or are a clown in the circus (media etc).
You, married foreigner who has lived here 20 years and has worked in good industries like tech, finance etc, you better give up your own passport to become one of us since you are not a Youtuber star or talk-show invitee or Nobel price winner. We only give passport to the above mentioned as it will make us look good in the international media and make our own unaware citizens think we are fair. Meanwhile we forget the other 99.5%.
If Taiwan wants to avoid citizen parasite behavior here or have better immigration outcome I would be all for it, but by making better requirements. However, having people give up their passport doesnāt accomplish that, if thatās what they are looking for. Mostly because people who have no education, no job, no life back in their home country, especially if their country is much worse off socially and economically compared to Taiwan, those are the ones who donāt bat an eye and just give up their passport right away. So if Taiwan wants to avoid immigrants who will burden their social welfare then this is definitely the wrong route to go. They are attracting the wrong crowd. The people who have a whole good baggage will always think twice before giving up their citizenship in order to acquire a new one.
I think Taiwanese government doesnāt really see the population birth rate as a problem, and the struggle it might cause in the future, they donāt think that far ahead. Because if they did they would want to take action now. Maybe they just think āif Japan is ok and surviving that richly why couldnāt we face it through a also?ā
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