9/11 Mastermind Confesses in Guantanamo

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]“So just how much are you willing to blab for that piece of Halal pepperoni pie, dude?”

It’s in the news cos it is imperative to remind us all what a crazed bunch of worthless mutha fuckers they are in Gitmo. Even Johhny - I’m an absolute c*nt - Howard is getting all uppity about an Oz prisoner, Hicks, in Gitmo and his lack of a trial. Mind you three years ago he couldn’t give a shit, but presto! Those polls said the Oz people did care, and cared very much about it, so now . . . here’s Johnny!

As I’ve said before, I would not have given a toss if they’d offed these guys right where they found them, but since they’ve built this stupid camp in all its lurid orange wonder, they have to be dealt with properly.

HG[/quote]

That’s how I feel too. These guys are foreign enemies not domestic criminals. Either kill them where you find them or treat them properly as prisoners of war.

Bloody hell! Where’s me mornin’ bottle? That towelhead bastard Mohammed probably swiped it.

Information obtained under torture is usually sketchy at best. Information resulting from other methods, not involving ‘torture’ is historically more complete and accurate. This ‘other’ method is much more time consuming and requires building a rapport with the subject.

There is a previous thread on torture and interrogation methods here on Forumosa.com where this other technique of interrogation is discussed and links to information about its use are present.

I have no idea what methods were used with this subject. He has, as stated, been in custody for quite sometime.

Most of them are apparently off their trolleys and on some form of happy pills these days.

I think Nick Cave put it rather nicely:

[quote]Now I got shrinks that will not rest with their endless Rorschach tests
I keep telling them they’re out to get me
They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, “Why of course!
There is so much more I could have done if they’d let me!”
So it’s Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children they all have to die
La la la la La la la lie
I’m happy as a lark and everything is fine
Singing La la la la La la la lie
Yeah, everything is groovy and everything is fine
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children they all gotta die [/quote]

HG

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Information obtained under torture is usually sketchy at best. Information resulting from other methods, not involving ‘torture’ is historically more complete and accurate. This ‘other’ method is much more time consuming and requires building a rapport with the subject.

There is a previous thread on torture and interrogation methods here on Forumosa.com where this other technique of interrogation is discussed and links to information about its use are present.

I have no idea what methods were used with this subject. He has, as stated, been in custody for quite sometime. [/quote]

Which is exactly why the American public should not accept his confession until an independent commission has established he has not been tortured.

GBH -
It is my personal opinion that each bit of information obtained from this subject has been and is being followed up on.
Both to establish a base line for judging his and its (the informations’) credibility, and for possible intervention in ongoing actions by his cohorts.
There are many things afoot which frankly, the public does not need to know. Its a war, not a TV series.

Apparently he personally piloted the two hijacked planes that hit the towers, too.

Seriously, though, I’m finding it difficult to understand what’s really going on here. Is he definitely linked to something, and then possibly taking or accepting the blame for other crimes, or do we think there’s nothing on him (but that doesn’t mean he is innocent).

I’m confusing myself now. :s

Actually, who cares?

What will spending millions putting this guy on trial achieve anyway?

EDIT: I suppose it shifts focus away from the failed ‘gonna smoke 'em outta their holes’ operation to find Bin Laden.

Votes?

Votes?[/quote]
indeed

You only edited your post after seeing what a clever response I had made.

cheers.

You deliberately missed out the s between the r and the e.

Clearly you couldn’t even mastermind a bus trip into town.

[quote=“Stray Dog”]Apparently he personally piloted the two hijacked planes that hit the towers, too.

Seriously, though, I’m finding it difficult to understand what’s really going on here. Is he definitely linked to something, and then possibly taking or accepting the blame for other crimes, or do we think there’s nothing on him (but that doesn’t mean he is innocent).

I’m confusing myself now. :s[/quote]

he did something, no one really has any #$$%^!@ clue what, not that it ever mattered or ever will. he’s toast anyway so they decided to publish his random deranged blathering on the off hope that someone will think they actually are doing something productive.

[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Information obtained under torture is usually sketchy at best. Information resulting from other methods, not involving ‘torture’ is historically more complete and accurate. This ‘other’ method is much more time consuming and requires building a rapport with the subject.

There is a previous thread on torture and interrogation methods here on Forumosa.com where this other technique of interrogation is discussed and links to information about its use are present.

I have no idea what methods were used with this subject. He has, as stated, been in custody for quite sometime. [/quote]

Which is exactly why the American public should not accept his confession until an independent commission has established he has not been tortured.[/quote]

WTF independent commission my ass. I agree with TC its a war not a tv show. The public doesn’t need to know everything not that we know anything anyway. If I was with the bastard I would hook a car battery up take two wires and shock his balls intermittently while playing some Taiwanese pop music in the background. I don’t think the nut shock would break him so much as the Taiwanese pop music

[quote]
There are many things afoot which frankly, the public does not need to know. Its a war, not a TV series.[/quote]

Yes, Indeed. Rome did not suffer the Scrutiny Endured By The New Republic. And while the Romans did not beat around the bush, they most assuredly knew how to withdraw in good order. The New World Order would seem to be sleepwalking in a dodgeball deathmatch.

What the public knows, or even what it needs, or does not need to know: is a moral issue that is not really relevant to objectively evaluating the tactics at hand. While public & political opinion does often warp strategy, it should not bear much angle on the tactics. At all.

KSM “Confessed” To Attacking Bank Founded After His Arrest

Fallacy of testimony exposed as story blows up in Pentagon’s face

[quote=“Paul Joseph Watson”]Khalid Shaikh Mohammed’s alleged confession testimony has been thoroughly discredited after it emerged that one of the targets he identified, the Plaza Bank, was not founded until 2006, four years after the alleged Al-Qaeda mastermind’s arrest.

In his confession, KSM claims, “I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing for the New (or Second) Wave of attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11: …Plaza Bank, Washington state.”

Skepticism about the legitimacy of KSM’s confession has gushed forth from all quarters, leaving the credibility of the Pentagon and the process of military tribunals in ruins and provoking additional questions about why the alleged Al-Qaeda mastermind admitted to involvement in such a vast range of plots.

Former CIA field officer Robert Baer also expressed his doubts , questioning “What the Pentagon’s objective really is in releasing the transcript of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s confession.”

“On the face of it, KSM, as he is known inside the government, comes across as boasting, at times mentally unstable. It’s also clear he is making things up. I’m told by people involved in the investigation that KSM was present during Wall Street Journal correspondent Danny Pearl’s execution but was in fact not the person who killed him. There exists videotape footage of the execution that minimizes KSM’s role. And if KSM did indeed exaggerate his role in the Pearl murder, it raises the question of just what else he has exaggerated, or outright fabricated,” writes Baer.
Whole article[/quote]Why is the KSM confession story so important? While selling headlines as it has, it serves as a distraction and smokescreen from much more serious cases such as Sibel Edmonds, which may finally be addressed if the currently proposed Whistleblower Enhancement Act (H.R.985) passes with its original intention. Sensitive evidence directly contradicting with the Bush/Cheney/PNAC White House 9/11 Commission’s report that points to US Government involvement is far too damaging to be allowed into mainstream media.

Please excuse the cross-post, but Sibel’s case warrants a forum of its own.

Does Sibel Edmonds = Hope for America?

=================================================
“Out of the sorrow of September 11th, I see opportunity.”
President Bush, October 29, 2001

“Our government has been hijacked by means of a “new Pearl Harbor” and a lot of otherwise good and decent people who are gullible enough to think that the first three steel-framed buildings in history fall down because they have some fires that the fire fighter on the scene said could be knocked down with a couple of hoses and through which people walked before they were photographed looking out the holes where the plane hit . One of these - bldg 7, [570 feet tall, 47 stories] was never hit by a plane and even NIST is ashamed to advance a reason for its collapse. And, miracle of miracles, these three buildings just happened to be leased and insured by the same guy who is on tape saying they decided to “PULL” the last one to fall.”
Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret), Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 21-year Marine Corps career.

“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
President Bush, May 24, 2005 in Rochester, NY

Why was a proven liar and wanted man appointed by the White House to be in charge of the 9/11 investigation?
Henry Kissinger

[quote=“djkonstable”][quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Information obtained under torture is usually sketchy at best. Information resulting from other methods, not involving ‘torture’ is historically more complete and accurate. This ‘other’ method is much more time consuming and requires building a rapport with the subject.

There is a previous thread on torture and interrogation methods here on Forumosa.com where this other technique of interrogation is discussed and links to information about its use are present.

I have no idea what methods were used with this subject. He has, as stated, been in custody for quite sometime. [/quote]

Which is exactly why the American public should not accept his confession until an independent commission has established he has not been tortured.[/quote]

WTF independent commission my ass. I agree with TC its a war not a tv show. The public doesn’t need to know everything not that we know anything anyway. If I was with the bastard I would hook a car battery up take two wires and shock his balls intermittently while playing some Taiwanese pop music in the background. I don’t think the nut shock would break him so much as the Taiwanese pop music[/quote]

Wow that’s so funny! You should really take it on the road.

Of course any information obtained from this prisoner or any prisoners should be considered and possibly used in other investigations/intelligence analyses. But you and Tainan Cowboy are missing the point. The Administration has released his confession to the American public, which I suspect is a prelude to some kind of trial. Therefore, if we and the court (if there is one) are to accept his very important confession (responsibility for 9/11 and a host of other terrorist attacks against our country), we have to know it was not obtained through torture. Or are you serious that we should sacrifice the Sixth and Eighth Amendments (right to a fair trial with legal representation and right not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishments)?

You both do realize the difference, right? No one here is suggesting the public must be made aware of everything happening behind the scenes, but if the government issues a confession from a man who supposedly masterminded a whole slew of attacks against the nation, the nation then has a right to know if he is telling the truth. I’m one of those old fashioned folks who believes in the Constitution, so I won’t be accepting a confession obtained through torture. Now the CIA says it didn’t torture him…in their secret prison…right. I don’t believe them. Do you?

Constitutional law does not apply to this case. International law applies He is an enemy not a citizen. You may be old school but I don’t think you are ignorant enough of the fact that the CIA and NSA operate and do things that we don’t and shouldn’t know about and at times may skirt or completely ignore the Constitution. They have been for decades.

International law as does the VIII amendment do dictate against torture. I don’t believe that the Constitution is regarded in the manner that it was originally intended. For Example.

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Technically this would mean that individuals should be able to possess the arms/ weapons to overthrow the United States Government. Are the citizens of the United States allowed this provision to the necessity for the security of a free State. No it isn’t so how the hell does this even apply today. Besides trying to maintain citizens rights to own guns. It has been manipulated to a point beyond its original intention. (THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER TOPIC)

Now if the VI Amendment applies to foreign prisoners I would like to see an explanation. I don’t think that because it states “All prisoners” means it applies to international prisoners or enemies of the State. I could be wrong. If I am show me please.

Although I think I know the intention of your post I don’t think that it applies in the realm of terrorist prisoners. Besides if it did, 5 years in a prison without a trail would have already been a massive injustice according to the VI Amendment.

I don’t believe the confession as I said before a person will confess to anything if they are tortured long enough. I don’t know what the intention of releasing the confession was either.
I also believe that if you still believe that the Constitution applies today in the way it should when the forefathers wrote it; then you have been deceived.

And how many international laws have been bent and broken just in holding him without trial? In a secret prison? Without legal representation? Etc.

I’m pretty sure, based on what I’ve read, that KSM does have his hands dirty. How much, I don’t know. But that doesn’t mean the US can disregard any intl laws and treaties in its treatment of him.