92-95-98? Which gas is right for my bike?

I have a 100cc two stroke. I was told by a mecanic that 92 is cheap gas and my bike may smoke. 95 is the best for performance but will smoke more than 98 and 98 is a clean smoke free gas but performs less than 95.

Doesn’t make sense to me. I’d think 92 is cheap, 95 is middle and 98 is best as the numbers reflects the octane level. I’ve also noticed that 98 is red in color as 92 and 95 aren’t.

Back home I could tell the difference on a bigger bike. If I filled up at Chevrons in BC with the 98 octane, the bike was more responsive.

I tried them all and honestly could not tell the difference. How about you? Do you know anything about gas in Taiwan?

[quote=“hatch”]I have a 100cc two stroke. I was told by a mecanic that 92 is cheap gas and my bike may smoke. 95 is the best for performance but will smoke more than 98 and 98 is a clean smoke free gas but performs less than 95.

Doesn’t make sense to me. I’d think 92 is cheap, 95 is middle and 98 is best as the numbers reflects the octane level. I’ve also noticed that 98 is red in color as 92 and 95 aren’t.

Back home I could tell the difference on a bigger bike. If I filled up at Chevrons in BC with the 98 octane, the bike was more responsive.

I tried them all and honestly could not tell the difference. How about you? Do you know anything about gas in Taiwan?[/quote]You need to use whatever your bike is set up for. If the octane rating is too low, you risk damaging the engine. If too high, you spend more money and I think foul up the plugs or something (not sure about this).

In general, the gas quality shouldn’t depend on the octane rating. Someone may have specific information about 92 being of poorer quality in Taiwan, but I haven’t heard it.

Most bikes are set up to use 92. You can get it set up for 95, however. Mine is though I don’t know whether it makes any difference in performance.

Now perhaps someone who really knows what they’re talking about could chip in…

If the bike is stickered 95 (which it probably is), then put 95 in it. Running higher octane gas will not help an unmodified normally-aspirated engine at all, just a waste of money. Running a lower grade than specified may cause engine damage via preignition. Smoke production has nothing whatsoever to do with octane rating either. Get yourself a new mechanic that isn’t quite so full of ‘it’.
What few people seem to understand is that octane rating has nothing to do with the amount of heat energy in the fuel. It’s simply a measure of how quickly the fuel burns. High octane gas often has a lower calorific value than regular because of all the additives which are less flammable than the base hydrocarbons. There’s a good article on gasoline here.
Joesax: Plug deposits from high octane gas was an issue in the old days of TEL (tetraethyl lead) as an octane modifier :wink: Not a problem these days. Taiwanese gas is actually of very good quality, according to tests done by BMW. The only issues you might have are those stations with leaky tanks, or those that haven’t cleaned them in many years (which is a lot). If you go fill up when their tank is almost empty you may be unlucky and get a shot of filthy water from the bottom.

I put 98 in my bike because the queues at the pumps are always shorter.

Thank you hsiadogha. Had you not posted, I would have posted something like"where is hsiadogha when you need him". I’m serious. Your knowledge of mecanical concepts is impressive. Vroom Vroom needs you. :slight_smile:

:blush:
Flattery will get you everywhere.

Yeah, the whole “higher octane = higher horsepower” is a myth. They did dyno tests on bigger bikes with different fuels. They found they actually got LOWER horsepower from the highest octane’s…it was different for different bikes but in general it was the lowest octane or the mid-grade that ran best.

This makes me wonder what is in racing gas that is better than regular gas purchased at a gas station. I also was told that a more expensive gas will get you farther as far as mileage goes. More than once I was told that. Is that a myth too? Why would the bike/ carb use less gas?

Myth I’m sure…people associate “octane” with “power” but the higher the octane level the harder it is to combust. Race fuel has very high octance but that’s because they use very high compression engines. If you used normal gas in a race engine it would combust before it was fully compressed without the aid of a spark (pre-ignition). But ideally you want the lowest possible octane level that doesn’t cause your engine to pre-ignite. Giving the fullest burn, but not so low as to cause pre-ignition. Pre-ignition is supposed to cause a “pinging” sound. Not sure if I’ve heard it before myself…but that would be the sign of needing higher octane fuel.

Octane isn’t a measure of fuel quality or even power. Advertisements that you see to that effect in gas stations are misleading. Octane is a chemical that’s added to refined gas to adjust the way the fuel burns – not it’s strength or color or smokyness.

People who design engines find having a variety of octane choices at the pump to be useful for various complicated reasons that I don’t know. This means that your engine was probably designed with a particular fuel in mind (probably gasoline – but if you’re driving a forklift maybe it runs on propane) with particular additives (octane for many vehicles, some chainsaws want a bit of oil mixed into the gas).

Choosing an octane for your vehicle is actually quite easy: read the maunal and use whatever it tells you to use.

If you’re having performance problems, try a tankfull of a different octane. I had a 1983 Oldsmobile back in the states that was designed for the lowest octane level. But if I used that fuel I had performance problems and even a bit of what would be engine knock if it were more pronounced. So I tried the next octane up – got better performance but still a bit of engine noise. On the highest octane the engine obviously was running the best – so perhaps the age of the car or some repair made along the way had messed up the way the engine was working from the way it had been designed. Oh well. Just like a horse, then, if it runs well on one feed and not on another, why use the other one?

Yes, it’s a myth.

Of course, if you put 15 different bikes in that trail you could find that higher octane does indeed give more HP. The deal with octane is that you need to match it to your engine. Think of octane like any other part you’d add to your engine – bigger or smaller isn’t better, you need the one that fits.

How do you know which one fits? Either look in the book or try all the parts and see which one works the best.

If I see the tanker truck I head to the next station…

how about for car? this ford laser 4 cylinder…92 is good enough eh?

Yeah, in my opinion you should be running 92 in that car. Back home in Arizona we only have a choice of 87, 92, or 95 octane. I ran my new VW on 87 and that is what is said on the side gastank cover. I even had it chipped and I was told that I didn’t need to run 92.

My fathers 1989 928 Porsche “pings” like crazy if you run 87 octane in it. I had never heard “pinging” until I accidently put that in it one time.

Yeah higher horses with higher octane is a myth.

[quote=“rk1951”]
Yeah, in my opinion you should be running 92 in that car. Back home in Arizona we only have a choice of 87, 92, or 95 octane. I ran my new VW on 87 and that is what is said on the side gastank cover. I even had it chipped and I was told that I didn’t need to run 92.[/quote]

you can’t really compare Arizona or anywhere else in the US with Taiwan when it comes to marked octane levels…

Taiwan and most countries outside of the USA use only the RON (Research Octane Number) octane number to label types of gas which is an “ideal world” scale based on perfect combustion ratios and provides an indication of low engine speed anti-knock performance…

BUT

the USA uses the Antiknock Index (RON+MON)/2 octane number, or an average of the RON plus MON (Motor Octane Number) this provides an indication of high engine speed anti-knock performance…

It works out to a 98 rating in Taiwan equal to about a 94 octane level in the USA…

basically it just boils down to diff’rent strokes in how it’s measured…

everything you ever wanted to know about fossil fuels and a lot more

[quote=“plasmatron”]
you can’t really compare Arizona or anywhere else in the US with Taiwan when it comes to marked octane levels…

Taiwan and most countries outside of the USA use only the RON (Research Octane Number) octane number to label types of gas which is an “ideal world” scale based on perfect combustion ratios and provides an indication of low engine speed anti-knock performance…

BUT

the USA uses the Antiknock Index (RON+MON)/2 octane number, or an average of the RON plus MON (Motor Octane Number) this provides an indication of high engine speed anti-knock performance…

It works out to a 98 rating in Taiwan equal to about a 94 octane level in the USA…

basically it just boils down to diff’rent strokes in how it’s measured…

everything you ever wanted to know about fossil fuels and a lot more…[/quote]

I did not know that at all , thanks for the info.

FIRST, A SCIENCE LESSON:
Octane is a hydrocarbon chain with 8 carbons chained together. It can be compressed (in combination with air) much more before it ignites without a spark. Heptane is a 7-carbon chain and ignites under much lower pressure.

If the “octane rating” is 95, for example, that means it’s 95% octane and 5% Heptane. Basically, the lower the octane, the more flammable the fuel is. That means if an engine is meant for 95 and you put 92 in it, it might “knock”. That’s because the fuel is igniting too early. Either because it is igniting under pressure or because it’s burning too fast and starting to push the piston(s) too far before Top Dead Center (TDC).

BASICALLY?
Fewer-cylinder-lower-revving engines need that slower, firmer push on the pistons. That creates good low rpm torque. Multi-cylinder-high-revving engines do better with fuel that burns faster. (Faster=lower octane). This is VERY general, OK. Basically, the way the engine is engineered is the way to go. Changing octanes is slightly asking for trouble, and definitely not an advantage to go either way. 98 is probably more expensive because of the process involved in refining it. Not because it will work better with your engine.

The number of cylinders, intake method(s), compression ratio, average expected RPM on the torque curve, ignition timing, and even bore/stroke ratio can be factors that decide which fuel is best for an engine. If your vehicle says “9X” on it, use that! Probably many engineers spent hours and hours tuning it to be what you want. Messing with that won’t help you.

IF YOU STILL DON’T GET IT, HERE’S A CHEESY PERSONIFICATION:
Think of a nurse in a hospital. She’s on her feet all day. (95 octane shoes). She does fine. One day, she wants to buy shoes that are a little smaller (92 octane shoes). She wears them and her feet hurt very badly (“knocking”). Ouch!!! Knocking HURTS!! Then she buys oversized shoes (98 octane). She can walk around with no problem, but she becomes clumsy, and maybe the sliding around inside might cause blisters after a long day. Stick with what you’re meant for. Buying bigger shoes won’t make you more comfortable.

PLAY WITH IT:
If your bike uses 95 octane, run it down to a nearly empty tank and then take an empty plastic bottle to a filling station (I said EMPTY, dammit, not a water bottle that still has droplets in it) and fill up $20 of 92-octane. Then buy 98-octane in the bottle. Drive around for a while and see if it knocks or behaves differently. If it does, stop and drop the 98 in. It mixes quickly, you’ll notice the difference right away.

If you normally use 92, try 98 and see what happens with $20 worth of 98. If it feels different, just go to the next station (which is probably not far) and then fill it to the top with the recommended fuel and then this “testing” is over.

[quote=“rk1951”]

Adding 98 to an NSR is garbage, and not true for the race track. Those engines were made for 92, anything else and your starving the power. [/quote]

Yep. Most of the world is still under the illusion that octane equals power. When in fact the opposite is usually more true. Octane is a burn retardant…racers with very high compression engines need it to stop their engines from prematurely combusting. But if you don’t have any problems with your engine igniting the fuel too early…then generally the lower the octane the more power you’ll get.

They ran tests on a CBR600RR and it developed more hp more smoothly with the “cheap” fuel. But try telling that to the locals who will all line up at the 98 pump on their big bikes while I go past them and use the 95 or 92.

I do the same, at the very beginning i started with the 98 just to try it, but i compared it with the 95 and i didn’t feel any decrease in the power at all, and its cheaper !! so now i only use 95, i think 98 is for some special engines or cars, but no big deal…