A/B/CBC English teachers and "native speaker" status

Moderator Note: This conversation has been split off from [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/im-in-taiwan-but-i-cant-find-a-job/66356/1 discussion about the OP’s situation, here[/url]

[quote=“its way too late”]It’s not looking too good, Militarygamer.

It’s doubtful that you’ll be hired as an English teacher in Taiwan because your English is not good enough. Sorry.
[/quote]

Why do you say that? Besides for a few grammatical errors where he put two spaces instead of one for some reason (likely a typo) his english seemed at least as good as your average American. Did my mind auto correct or something?

Oh, his english must be alright. He is in Taiwan for three days and couldn’t find a job. Not to worried about those detail. Autocorrection is great but not always work.
But should prospective English teacher not has an above average command of English?[/quote]
What advices can we give someone who might be the subject of such a disrespectful comment? :astonished:

“Advices” - in the first sentence. Still, I wouldn’t say his English is terrible. I had plenty of coworkers at Kojen who were passed off as native speakers of English by the management, but who weren’t, and whose English was worse than that of the OP.
I suggest he keep trying. 3 days isn’t long enough.

I can believe that… :wink:

A different story: there is a Taiwanese guy in my building who teaches English privately - he seems to have a few well-paying customers. His English is atrocious by all standards, except one: he knows how to communicate, and if he teaches his students that he surely is a successful teacher - far, far ahead of probably almost all other Taiwanese teachers of English in the country. I enjoy having conversations with him, because he speaks in such an expressive and confident manner, and he is a deep thinker and cares about people (even if he mangles the language: “people choice what life they have”; “they are all corruption”; “I enjoy being self-employing”; “and too many people shue their neighbours”; and so on…).

[quote=“TheAmericanNomad”]
Why do you say that? Besides for a few grammatical errors where he put two spaces instead of one for some reason (likely a typo) his english seemed at least as good as your average American. Did my mind auto correct or something?[/quote]

I say it because it’s true. There were a lot of grammatical errors and all of them typical of a L1 Chinese speaker. Even L1 English speakers with bad writing skills do not insert commas between sentences or write things that would not sound natural spoken. The writing is also a bit incoherent (re-read the last sentence). The two-spaces issue was barely a concern for me. Yes, your auto correct was on full force.

To the OP: I do not aim to be rude. Of course there are opportunities for you. You’ll find what you’re looking for if you look hard enough. It doesn’t sound like you really want to be here, though. Good luck in all that you do.

Well, shit, now that I go over it I see a few things, “advices” over “advice” and “So far, there is no reply” as opposed to “So far, I haven’t received any replies” but mostly I would say he is alright. Not, native level, four year graduate level, but maybe good enough to pass by people who wouldn’t know better (i.e. worse English speakers).

The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English need some work.

Adikarmika you say “Much more important than a few grammatical mistakes (which, let’s be honest, do not get in the way of communication) is the ability to establish a rapport with students and teach them according to their needs. You do not need to be a native speaker. Near-native is plenty good enough”

I hope you are referring to Kindy teaching when you say this.

[quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

pqkdzrwt made a mistake. He needs to improve his proofreading.

The OP made what seem like errors. He needs to improve his English.

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

pqkdzrwt made a mistake. He needs to improve his proofreading.

The OP made what seem like errors. [color=#FF0000]He needs to improve his English[/color].[/quote]

Sure!
He can do that while teaching English such as;
Hello! My name is Nina.
How are you Nina?
I’m fine, thank you.

How is the weather today?
It’s sunny.
I like sunny days. Do you like sunny days too?
Yes, I do. or No, I don’t.

There are plenty of job opportunities like that. If you are a native speaker with a masters degree and you find yourself teaching that, you’re the one who should reconsider.
So, stop discouraging the O.P. . He’ll find a job.

[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

It might be OK for non-native speakers to teach a language (many of the waiguos here could likely teach beginner level mandarin better that 99.9999% of native speakers) but pointing out a “typo” to a native speaker and suggesting that their English could use a bit of improvement, and in a sentence containing an awkward construction like “always can,” not THAT is irritating.

What is your first language?

[quote=“bob”][quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

It might be OK for non-native speakers to teach a language (many of the waiguos here could likely teach beginner level Mandarin better that 99.9999% of native speakers) but pointing out “typos” to a native speaker and suggesting that their English could use a bit of improvement in a sentence containing the awkward construction “always can,” not THAT is irritating.

What is your first language?[/quote]

It’s not a typo!
It’s the third person singular that requires an (s).
I never claimed to speak and especially write a perfect English. I am very aware of the fact that I have to improve. But I am not the one discouraging people from making a living.
And if you do so, make sure your English is perfect especially the kindergarten English with the third person singular simple present tense.

“always can” = About 4,430,000 results (0.24 seconds)
There are many awkward people out there!

[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

I never claimed my English was perfect. The fact that there is a missing s is more than likely due to typing too fast. It is not a mistake I would make in conversation. I have ample numbers of posts on this forum which you could use to verify this fact if someone wanted to argue the point.

It has me wondering if someone has not in fact gone in and added the mistake to my post, it is not a mistake I would normally make.

[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“bob”][quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

It might be OK for non-native speakers to teach a language (many of the waiguos here could likely teach beginner level Mandarin better that 99.9999% of native speakers) but pointing out “typos” to a native speaker and suggesting that their English could use a bit of improvement in a sentence containing the awkward construction “always can,” not THAT is irritating.

What is your first language?[/quote]

It’s not a typo!
It’s the third person singular that requires an (s).
I never claimed to speak and especially write a perfect English. I am very aware of the fact that I have to improve. But I am not the one discouraging people from making a living.
And if you do so, make sure your English is perfect especially the kindergarten English with the third person singular simple present tense.

“always can” = About 4,430,000 results (0.24 seconds)
There are many awkward people out there![/quote]

It’s not a typo! It’s the third person singular that requires an (s).

Scratches head. Is there a typo that “couldn’t” be explained? How does that make it not a typo?

[quote=“pqkdzrwt”][quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”]The Taiwanese government restricts who is legally allowed to teach English in a school here in Taiwan. The subject of your post reveals that you more than likely are not legally allowed to teach english here. Please don’t teach English at any school my kid could end up attending, Thanks.

http://www.teachenglishtaiwan.net/who-can-teach-english-in-taiwan/

My apologies if you actually did manage to graduate from one of the universities on the official list and the only problem is your English [color=#FF0000]need[/color] some work.[/quote]

I know this is tricky but that’s English.
No matter how good you are, it always can use a little improvement.[/quote]

I never claimed my English was perfect. The fact that there is a missing s is more than likely due to typing too fast. It is not a mistake I would make in conversation. I have ample numbers of posts on this forum which you could use to verify this fact if someone wanted to argue the point.

It has me wondering if someone has not in fact gone in and added the mistake to my post, it is not a mistake I would normally make.[/quote]

I never thought you would!

It just bothered me that there wasn’t much of a constructive help only trashing on how bad his English is.
As I stated in one of my previous posts, there are plenty of teaching opportunities for someone with a less brilliant English.
I don’t think b bbb, a aaa, t ttt, b-a-t, bat requires a special education or even a degree.

There are many Buxibans that will hire him.
I saw an ad on tealit this week where a kindergarten was looking for an ABC or CBC teacher. The ad stated they only want an ABC or CBC for that position.

Why do these posts always end up the same way. Trashing the posters English.

The OT is talking about a job teaching in a cram school in Taiwan. The Trashers imply they are living in the Matrix where they are teaching grammar at Oxford University and not teaching at a buxiban in Taiwan.
As Adikarmika said, schools are more concerned with the ability to interact and retain students as opposed to minor grammar errors. Keep in mind no one will notice these errors (except the grammar nazis).

ur english is nt perfect either. if u have nothing betta 2 say then just be quiet.

[quote=“its way too late”]It’s not looking too good, Militarygamer.

It’s doubtful that you’ll be hired as an English teacher in Taiwan because your English is not good enough. Sorry.

You probably won’t find a job teaching English here, unless you’re teaching at a school that is for commercial purposes only and has no foreigners at the school that can evaluate your language level. Sorry.

Also, you aren’t all that unique here in Taiwan. There are many Taiwanese people who have lived and studied abroad for an extended period of time, and lots of people who have stellar English without ever visiting an English-speaking country. Sorry.

Why not look for a regular job? Don’t overseas Chinese have more opportunities to be hired by local businesses? Or go after a job as a co-teacher?

If you can get a better paid job in the US, you probably should go there and get it. From what I hear, though, competition for jobs is fierce. (I just listened to an awful 60 Minutes piece about the number of homeless families in the US. Lots of people are struggling for work.) There, though, you’ll be competing against people who have better language skills. Unless, of course, you’re looking to get a job where you mostly use Chinese.[/quote]

I never wrote that my English is purr-fect. Every writer needs a good editor, and I gather from your above writing sample that you could offer me some much-needed guidance. Feel free to help me improve my writing. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Hey, OP: How is the job search coming along? It’s been about a week now; any replies or job offers?

MG, seriously, you’ve got to get rid of those commas. Commas between sentences (not phrases) are the epitome of Chinese writing.

“I am a native Mandarin Chinese speaker but I was born in the United States and can speak fluent English.”

Which tells me that you’re probably one of those kids whose parents did the 14th Amendment thingy.

I truly doubt that you sound phonetically like an ABC…how heavy is your Chinese accent, BTW?