A-Bian is sick

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

I think it’s bad that they didn’t get him to the hospital sooner, but I don’t know why his family and supporters are complaining about his 30 mins of exercise per day and lack of manual labour opportunities.

There are lots of prisoners in Supermax prisons in the US that are fit as a fiddle. Why? Because they do 1000s of push ups and sit ups in their cell, which are on 24-hour lockdown.

Chen, even as president, lived an inactive lifestyle. The health problems from an inactive lifestyle are cumulative and not necessarily because of his conditions in jail. It’s the result of decades of neglect. With regard to working in prison, would Chen really want to work making joss sticks or washing clothes? If he was allowed to do this type of work, I am sure his supporters would say it was beneath a former president.

Hard time is exactly that—hard time. To me, there has been a repetitive pattern with Chen and his wife to use their ailments to get special conditions. If you do the crime, you should do the time no matter what your ailments are.

[quote=“Taipei Times”]
The US-based Formosan Association for Human Rights (FAHR) in a letter on Saturday condemned the “inhuman imprisonment conditions” faced by former president Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) and called on the Presidential Office and Ministry of Justice to “set aside political motives” and grant Chen the hospital stay he needs to return to full health.

Chen, who is serving a 17-and-a-half-year prison sentence for corruption, was granted a temporary release from Taipei Prison on Tuesday for a medical checkup at Taoyuan General Hospital because of heath concerns. A series of tests revealed that he was suffering from an acute coronary syndrome and significantly reduced blood flow to the heart, a potentially fatal condition, the letter said.

Taipei Prison ignored Chen’s repeated requests for a hospital checkup for a month until pressure from 13 legislators persuaded it to relent, it said.

However, the prison authorities had planned to return Chen to prison immediately after the checkup.
Chen is currently in the intensive care unit after undergoing an urgent cardiac catheterization procedure on Wednesday. A small tumor was also found on his prostate during the examination.

Chen’s son, Chen Chih-chung, pointed out that his father has been jailed under an inhuman conditions and was allowed only 30 minutes each day for outdoor activities. Earlier this year, for nine straight days, he was even denied his daily exercise time. Unlike other inmates, who can work eight hours a day in prison factories, his father is essentially confined to a damp and undersized cell of about 70 square feet, 24 hours a day. [/quote]

2

He’s now a ward of the state, so his health is their responsibility. His previously inactive lifestyle can’t be used as a justification. If he and his family did indeed ask for time out of his cell to exercise and work, I can’t see the prison going, “no, because we don’t think he took the time to exercise while president, therefore we will deny your request.” And if he was given Ativan to “calm him down” without his knowledge or consent, that’s pretty serious. I don’t know, I’m not privy to the rationale for dosing him with a tranquilizer…maybe he was making a big ruckus and writing disparaging letters to the media.

I once read in a newspaper about an old guy in the US purposely getting himself arrested for shoplifting because the figured if he got thrown into the prison system, the state would give him free health coverage and he would no longer be a burden to his children (I think he had a health condition and not insurance). It being reported in the news, I reckon the judge and social services worked something out where he’d get decent health coverage without having to spend time in jail. I guess the old guy didn’t know that being in prison exposes you to anal raping as well as free health insurance.

3

Was it his family that requested Taoyuan General Hospital, or have the authorities decided to punish him by sending him to what just might be the WORST possible health institution in the entire country?
:ponder:

4

Yeah, interesting, huh. In the US, it wouldn’t matter a damn. Can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

[quote=“Taigottawanna”]He’s now a ward of the state, so his health is their responsibility. His previously inactive lifestyle can’t be used as a justification. If he and his family did indeed ask for time out of his cell to exercise and work, I can’t see the prison going, “no, because we don’t think he took the time to exercise while president, therefore we will deny your request.” And if he was given Ativan to “calm him down” without his knowledge or consent, that’s pretty serious. I don’t know, I’m not privy to the rationale for dosing him with a tranquilizer…maybe he was making a big ruckus and writing disparaging letters to the media.

I once read in a newspaper about an old guy in the US purposely getting himself arrested for shoplifting because the figured if he got thrown into the prison system, the state would give him free health coverage and he would no longer be a burden to his children (I think he had a health condition and not insurance). It being reported in the news, I reckon the judge and social services worked something out where he’d get decent health coverage without having to spend time in jail. I guess the old guy didn’t know that being in prison exposes you to anal raping as well as free health insurance.[/quote]
Never heard anyone describe prison health care as “decent”.

5

Perhaps A-Bian has abdominal bleeding?

Or is that just a wild shot?

I should stop, these comments make me sick to the stomach.

6

[quote=“urodacus”]Perhaps A-Bian has abdominal bleeding?

Or is that just a wild shot?

I should stop, these comments make me sick to the stomach.[/quote]

I had to think about that for a couple of seconds. More please :slight_smile:

7

Should the prison system be required to use the BEST possible health institution? I imagine most will opt for the cheapest. Save tax dollars, you know.

8

Should the prison system be required to use the BEST possible health institution? I imagine most will opt for the cheapest. Save tax dollars, you know.[/quote]

He got access to medical resources that in some developed countries might take months on a waiting list. That’s sort of why I am entertained by people complaining about his conditions. Ok, they should have taken him in sooner. But exercise within a jail can take place anywhere. I don’t think his human rights are being violated.

The tests he received—much better than many inmates get in many countries.

9

No, in Taiwan anyone has access to these facilities, fast …

10

Let’s not get carried away with self-rightwingousness.

Chen is not a hardened violent criminal. He was charged with a couple economic crimes, the more serious crimes of embezzling state funds being long dropped.

In the US he would be in a comfy minimum security prison not in some supermax facility. :unamused:

11

How do his prison conditions stack up with other convicted criminals serving similar sentences for similar crimes?

If others have better conditions, then he shouldn’t be singled out for harsher conditions and his should be improved. If they all have basically the same conditions, then he shouldn’t be singled out as some kind of martyr suffering unduly.

12

For his crimes, people rarely do any time in Taiwan. So it’s a bit hard to compare. :laughing:

13

It’s revenge … Plain, simple political nonsense

14

While it’s true he was fat and unfit before being locked up and his family’s whining rings slightly false, muchaman’s right he’d be in a comfy prison if he’d been convicted of the same crimes in the US, but even in a supermax prison he would be entitled to more exercise time.

In the baddest of the supermax prisons in the US. . .

[quote]The 8 x 10 foot cells of the Pelican Bay SHU, or Secure Housing Unit, are made of smooth, poured concrete. They have no windows. Instead, there are fluorescent lights, which the inmates can control. For at least twenty-two hours every day, prisoners remain in their cells, looking out through a perforated steel door at a solid concrete wall. Food is delivered twice a day (breakfast, sack lunch, and dinner) through a slot in the cell door.

A guard in a central control booth controls these doors; he can press a button and allow one prisoner at a time to go out to a shower, or to his court-mandated five hours per week of outdoor exercise. This exercise takes place in a cement yard, often called a “dog run,” which extends the length of three cells, and has a roof partially open to the sky. The guard in the control booth is always armed; from his central vantage point in the control booth, he can shoot onto any one of six pods, each containing eight cells[/quote]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelican_Bay_State_Prison

15

For his crimes, people rarely do any time in Taiwan. So it’s a bit hard to compare. :laughing:[/quote]

ba-da-bing!

:discodance:

16

For his crimes, people rarely do any time in Taiwan. So it’s a bit hard to compare. :laughing:[/quote] Obviously, his REAL crime was getting the KMT ousted from power.

17

Violence doesn’t always involve a gun or a baseball bat. The value of money ultimately comes from the time that people contribute to the functioning of the economy. Economic criminals steal a little bit of many people’s lives, instead of the entirety of a few people’s lives.

18

Violence doesn’t always involve a gun or a baseball bat. The value of money ultimately comes from the time that people contribute to the functioning of the economy. Economic criminals steal a little bit of many people’s lives, instead of the entirety of a few people’s lives.[/quote]

I agree that economic crimes are serious. My point though was that an economic criminal of Chen’s type does not need to be in a supermax compound as he is no threat to the guards or other prisoners.

19

You can compare to where convicted Illinois governor Rob Blagojevich is serving 14 years:

[quote]The Colorado prison where ex-Gov. Rod Blagojevich will serve his prison term has a pretty good reputation, according to Scott Fawell.

At his request, Blagojevich will be placed at a low security federal facility in Littleton, Colorado. The Englewood Prison is a 300-acre compound surrounded by woods and lakes.

“It’s got a pretty good reputation within the prison community of being safe and clean, and at least you’re somewhere in a pretty nice area. I mean you’re in the foothills of the Rockies,” Scott Fawell said. Fawell, who served as an aide to ex-Gov. George Ryan, spent five years in federal prison after being convicted of racketeering and mail fraud in 2002.[/quote]

Another big difference is that the US actually proved Blagojevich was corrupt by catching him on tape talking about selling Obama’s senate seat. As opposed to the pig circus here where A-bian was convicted of taking bribes from the Koo family and others. Almost all of the evidence against A-bian was testimony by people who were threatened with prison sentences themselves for corruption. A-bian said they were campaign contributions, people like Jeffery Koo (who later admitted to perjuring himself) said that the payments were bribes.

While A-bian was clearly guilty of egregious ethical lapses and may well have committed crimes, I don’t think the state even came close to proving that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

As other have said in the foregoing, his real crime was advocating Taiwanese independence and being the first non-KMT president. I think Tsai Ying-wen was very brave to have run after the reign of political terror by the judiciary (a purge by another name) that has reigned since the DPP left power.

20

[quote=“cfimages”]How do his prison conditions stack up with other convicted criminals serving similar sentences for similar crimes?

If others have better conditions, then he shouldn’t be singled out for harsher conditions and his should be improved. If they all have basically the same conditions, then he shouldn’t be singled out as some kind of martyr suffering unduly.[/quote]

I agree, he should be in a minimum security type arrangement, he’s not a threat to others. The sentence period was too long and the punishment too harsh.