A complete lack of human decency

You should have demanded to talk to her supervisor as soon as she started acting like a toddler. Now that it’s in the past, she can easily deny that it ever happened.

Completely not PC and not kind/polite, but it would have been fun to grimace sympathetically, act totally understanding, nod at a co-worker and say too-loudly, "啊, 例假吧?“

But calling her 阿姨 is really the best option – insulting yet oh-so-polite and appropriate.

Personally, I like Tommy’s approach to this the best. Tommy has a big advantage over many on this site, in that he has a Taiwanese parent and was born and raised here. Study the language and culture though we may, we are just not going to be able to attain that level of acculturation. I especially loved his way of dealing with the Thailand cow.

Perhaps without knowing it, Deuce also won his situation by doing nothing at all. The DMV cow’s behavior was noticed by others and maintaining composure only made her look worse. It’s counter-intuitive, especially to us, but sometimes smothering these types in good manners and praise is even worse than letting loose on them.

[quote=“Tomas”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“Tomas”]Come on now. Let’s not use this as an excuse to spew more “Taiwan sucks” bile.

I’ve lived in Taiwan for 15 years at two different times, own a business here, and have conducted official business with government employees in a dozens or more contexts maybe a hundred times, not including the 40-50 times a year I go through customs. I think I’ve encountered such rudeness or awkwardness (in the case of the DMV lady, who I think was just mortified by her lack of English skills) exactly three times. My wife, who is Taiwanese and very capable of dealing with rudeness or incompetence, runs into this a bit more than I do, maybe 5% of the time. That’s about 3-5% of the time, compared with 40 or 50% of the time back home in the USA.

Deuce got unlucky, having it happen twice in a short period. It happens. When it happens, I think the thing to do is decide whether or not it’s worth the time and effort it would take to get some sort of satisfaction. For me, that depends on my mood. If I’m not in the mood for conflict, I just let it go. If I’m okay with a bit of conflict but under control, I’ll confront the person’s superior and file a complaint. If I’m really pissed off, I know that nothing good is going to happen and it isn’t life-threatening, so I drop it whilst cursing under my breath.

Not sure if that helps, Deuce. Sometimes you go through an unlucky streak where these things are concerned. I think you handled it well by just letting it go. I wouldn’t worry about it happening again anytime soon, and I really don’t think it’s reflective of Taiwan. More a reflection of the fact that no large organisation is staffed entirely by courteous, competent people. You’re going to meet an asshole once in a while.[/quote]

I never portrayed it as a Taiwan thing, no one is saying Taiwan sucks, it is simply something that happened, and it was by someone who is in a position of authority. Are we at a point where we cannot discuss things that happen for fear of whose sensibilities we may damage?

The DMV lady was not ‘mortified by her lack of English’ she was just a miserable C who had the most disgusted look on her face, being mortified and being hateful are two very different chemical reactions and one’s face dictates which way that person is feeling.
The City civil servant WENT OUT OF HER WAY to mock me after being downright abusive in her authority.

These are NOT kindhearted ladies who just feel overwhelmed, their are mad at the world, angry, miserable people who feel the need to bully wherever they can.

To reiterate, I never raised my voice, I never lost my smile, but all the while I wanted really bad things to happen to them.

I would complain if this happened in the US, Canada, UK or anywhere else, and if I did there certainly wouldn’t be posters minimalizing my experience and calling me out for being petty slagging off Taiwan. Why the kid gloves with Taiwan? No one uses them when discussing the latest US shitshow or some Canadian crap, I think it is actually more bigoted to not call a spade a spade.[/quote]

Take it easy, man. My first point wasn’t directed at you. Does it fit you? If not, then don’t get so worked up over it.

And to take your point, re: the DMV lady, it sounds to me like someone who was mortified by her lack of English. Is it okay with you if I express that opinion, or must I conform to your worldview in order to make you happy?

I didn’t say they were kindhearted. I wrote that most of the government workers I encounter in Taiwan are professional and polite. I empathize with how you must have felt. I’ve been there too, and now how frustrating it can be.

You’ve got me all wrong man. Put on a pair of man panties and toss those frilly things in the trash.[/quote]

Trust me my friend, the DMV lady was not mortified by her English or lack there of. She was put off and visibly upset. Every I spoke to her in polite and clear Mandarin she made loud grunting noise followed by ‘No English’ almost all the while hiding her face with the cardboard (not in a shamed or shy way but in a ‘F-F-S! would you leave already!’ way) and jabbering to the lady at the counter beside her about adogha etc.

Having sympathy of any sorts for the DMV lady is down right insulting to anyone in my position.

I do like the A-Yi angle, though.

Jaysus, you are a sensitive little flower. Truly, I think the DMV lady is an idiot. I simply meant that her idiotic reaction was probably brought on by a sense of shame. The Taiwanesers call it 自卑感. It makes people do all sorts of fucked up shit. Haven’t you ever had sympathy for people who behave like idiots because they feel bad about themselves? It’s got to be an awful burden. Imagine what it’s like to go through life like that.

Anyway, I think all of this sensitivity is just a ploy to get me to buy you a couple of beers…and a new pair of frilly panties.

[quote=“Tomas”]Jaysus, you are a sensitive little flower. Truly, I think the DMV lady is an idiot. I simply meant that her idiotic reaction was probably brought on by a sense of shame. The Taiwanesers call it 自卑感. It makes people do all sorts of fucked up shit. Haven’t you ever had sympathy for people who behave like idiots because they feel bad about themselves? It’s got to be an awful burden. Imagine what it’s like to go through life like that.

Anyway, I think all of this sensitivity is just a ploy to get me to buy you a couple of beers…and a new pair of frilly panties.[/quote]

Sounds like you’ve had a few already! :slight_smile:

[quote=“BigJohn”]Sounds pretty serious!
Could you tell us more?
Of course, yeah, you don’t fuck around in an airport.[/quote]
Well, thing is, it wasn’t serious at all. It was completely banal and stupid, a waste of everybody’s time - just like DD’s experience. This was a long time ago, so the details are a bit hazy, but I do recall that it was a couple of years after de Menezes was murdered on the London underground by trigger-happy police. Everyone became acutely aware that the police (at least in London) had standing orders to shoot to kill in the case of suspected suicide bombers, and people were jittery because of the reality of the 2005 bomb. It’s also worth pointing out that, on a bad hair day, I have the demeanour of a Palestinian terrorist.

Anyway, point was, there was me, checking in for a flight back to Taiwan, and I get this fat bint who clearly had a problem with me. She starts off by grumbling about my luggage being overweight. It wasn’t. I pointed out that I had a generous business-class allowance, and besides I was only slightly over the standard economy allowance (I’d gone to one of the Economy desks because I couldn’t see anything obviously marked “Business”). No I don’t, says fat bint. I point out the word “Business” on the ticket, next to the bit where it says “30kg”. She decides she has to “talk to her manager” and disappears off somewhere. The girl on the next desk seems quite sweet and tries to help; she says, is there anything I can remove from my luggage. I tell her no, because I don’t need to. She seems embarrassed by her colleague, who comes back a good 10 minutes later. She decides she has to weigh all my bags again, including my (small) hand luggage and laptop. I start getting a bit agitated, but I was definitely keeping it civil, even though fat bint is being really condescending at that point. I can’t remember precisely what she did or said that freaked me out, but it was a challenge. It was something along the lines of, “Are you insulting me, sir? If you’re going to insult me I’ll have to call security”. I had said nothing that could be construed as an insult. It was the look on her face that said “I’m going to fuck you over today, sir” that scared the shit out of me, because when you’re in an airport, They Are The Law, and she knew it. I realised I was dealing with Annie Wilkes and it was time to GTFO. I asked for my passport back (I was surprised that she actually gave it back), picked up my luggage, and walked to the back of the queue, whereupon I saw the Business Class check-in across the other side of the bloody airport. Ten minutes later, no questioned asked, I was helping myself at the free bar in the Business Class lounge. I should have asked about her manager and written a Strongly Worded Letter, but sometimes you think, “what’s the point?”, especially if you’ve just left a country you have no intention of ever going back to.

I’m sure every frequent flyer has an experience like that, but it’s the kind of thing you really only expect in, say, Congo. Or America.

@finley:

Interesting story! So, do you think she was flirting with you? :laughing:

[quote=“Confuzius”]DD, a quick question: How were you dressed?

I have noticed if I go to immigration in shorts…they act all suspicious of me. If I go in a dress shirt and slacks, they treat me amazingly. I always go on my day off (hence the time I wore shorts). Not saying the difference in dress justifies anything, but just curious.[/quote]

This is an angle worth exploring. Better not to have trouble in the first place than have to worry about how to deal with it.

Practical considerations:

Should I really dress my best for the plane ride just to make a good impression with the immigration guy? It’s an awfully long flight, and I’ll be tired. I want to be comfy. I suppose I could try to switch into a dress shirt at Narita. Switch shirts on the plane, in the restroom. I’ve got to think through the logistics on this one.

Going in to extend my visa. It’ll be my first, because I’ve always done visa-free before. Yeah, I could dress nice. I’ll be a bit sweaty. I’m from a much colder climate.

Do I have to wear a tie? I hate ties.

Definitively, you must dress up when going to NIA. Yes, it is childish but a fact.

And yes, airports are not the place to mess around.

I dress smartly most of the time (tailored clothes and bespoke shoes) - always when flying. And flying back from the UK I was profiled and pulled to the side during boarding and asked a number of questions.
These goons in the west are being taught to profile people, but not for a terrorist threat.

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“Tomas”]Jaysus, you are a sensitive little flower. Truly, I think the DMV lady is an idiot. I simply meant that her idiotic reaction was probably brought on by a sense of shame. The Taiwanesers call it 自卑感. It makes people do all sorts of fucked up shit. Haven’t you ever had sympathy for people who behave like idiots because they feel bad about themselves? It’s got to be an awful burden. Imagine what it’s like to go through life like that.

Anyway, I think all of this sensitivity is just a ploy to get me to buy you a couple of beers…and a new pair of frilly panties.[/quote]

Sounds like you’ve had a few already! :slight_smile:[/quote]

Nah, I don’t drink until Friday or Saturday now. No weekday suds-imbibing. I was just waxing whimsical. Deuce can take it.

[quote=“Tomas”]Jaysus, you are a sensitive little flower. Truly, I think the DMV lady is an idiot. I simply meant that her idiotic reaction was probably brought on by a sense of shame. The Taiwanesers call it 自卑感. It makes people do all sorts of fucked up shit. Haven’t you ever had sympathy for people who behave like idiots because they feel bad about themselves? It’s got to be an awful burden. Imagine what it’s like to go through life like that.

Anyway, I think all of this sensitivity is just a ploy to get me to buy you a couple of beers…and a new pair of frilly panties.[/quote]

I am sensitive? I tell you that you are wrong (and remember I was there, witness and participant to the whole thing, you are opining based on a somewhat poorly recollected description of what happened) and you go off again on a tangent about me wearing frilly panties… I am sure you have experienced 自卑感, but this wasn’t it. Now if you want, we can take another lap around retard park and have this entire argument over again or you can realize that I was there, you weren’t, and no, I wasn’t wearing my frilly panties, I only do that when I post.

DD is skirting the whole shorts question and getting sidetracked with Tomas’ panties.
Time to address the real issue.
Deuce, were you wearing boy pants or man pants? Out with it.

[quote=“almas john”]DD is skirting the whole shorts question and getting sidetracked with Tomas’ panties.
Time to address the real issue.
Deuce, were you wearing boy pants or man pants? Out with it.[/quote]

That’s a good point!

And if you go through the airport, remember NOT to wear frilly panties! They’ll probably be able to profile you as Tomas did!

[quote=“almas john”]DD is skirting the whole shorts question and getting sidetracked with Tomas’ panties.
Time to address the real issue.
Deuce, were you wearing boy pants or man pants? Out with it.[/quote]

Boxers (with adult diaper hidden inside)

DD, fuck 'em.

I hate confrontation, but I hate bureaucratic bitches too.

Some here in China are reasonable (the ladies who issue me my PSB registration on entry to China).

The chopsticks at the Entry&Exit Office in Xiamen - thoroughly curt and shitty. I give them the 1000 yard stare, say nothing and go. If I open up I’ll verbally assault them, and there goes my Residence Permit, etc.

Sometimes you have to retake control of a situation. I’ve told a Customs officer to piss off, when he asked me to prove I worked at Xiamen University. I told him “that’s not your job, your job is to check my bags. Stop asking questions you shouldn’t be or I call your supervisor”. He was trying to play his shitty little power game with me, and I called him on it.

I have no problem going verbal if need be.

[quote=“Baas Babelaas”]

I have no problem going verbal if need be.[/quote]

:slight_smile: It sounds really scary when you say it like that.

In all fairness, I can’t blame either of these fine upstanding public servants. I can only hope that they were not deeply traumatized by their experiences.

Clearly, DD was not dressed for success that day. He is not answering for 2 reasons I believe: 1. Thinking it will invalidate his complains. 2. Does not want to lie.

I commend the second, I think the first does not actually invalidate his complaint. Unless he showed up in a wife beater with betelnut juice all over it. You should not have to dress nice to receive nice service.

BUT, even in the US, I would dress up a bit before going to any government office, (DMV for example) because people WILL treat you better.