ABC magazine has many articles that should be interesting to junior high students. I am guessing that they may even be interested in the topics if they were written in Chinese but most students that I have taught are really not motivated to discuss these articles in English.
Too bad you missed the demos in Taipei and Kaohsiung this month. We told stories and had meaningful interaction in the first class with an unknown language. You just have to know how to do it.
Amen, sister!
steelersman: Of course. I don’t suffer from “the grass is greener” syndrome. I did other jobs before I became a teacher and they had their issues also. I watched my father be constantly frustrated running his business dealing with apathetic people who put no effort into their work. I would say to him that if they had the verve he had, then they wouldn’t be working for him. Instead, he’d have more competitors. He knew this, even without me telling him, but it was still extremely frustrating dealing with it.
THIS. Its what killed my business in Japan. I hired smart, attractive people to help with sales but they didn’t do anything. I did about 90% of the work. And it was too much. And not enough. When I started laying people off, they still didn’t get the message. They actually looked forward to having a little time off rather than reaping the rewards of their labor. In the end, I closed the office, worked for a competitor until I had enough saved and left for the 'Wan.
In principle, I would say the answer is yes. You’re talking about a hypothetical situation though.
It sounds like you’re getting compliance, at best, but not commitment. The kids will go along with what you want them to do, for the sake of an easy life, but have no real interest or motivation.
I used to work in sales, where the goal is to get the customer to commit to the course of action you want and then somehow make it affordable to them. Affordable doesn’t just mean in terms of money, you’re asking them to invest time and energy.
Basically, if you want to get buy-in, you have to be providing an affordable solution to a problem that people want to solve. Here’s the rundown of what I was taught, in reverse order so the outcome is at the top, but bear in mind that as a process it doesn’t work in Taiwan. Nevertheless, all the elements are required before you can get anywhere.
- The customer wants to invest the time, energy, money agreed because it helps them solve a problem. (the problem may be that they haven’t reached a personal goal yet.)
- The customer believes that your solution is the best available, if you can make it affordable.
- Your solution matches all their expectations.
- They really want to solve the problem.
- Their definition of the problem is the same as yours.
- You helped them define the problem more clearly.
- They told you about the problem.
- They believe that you are motivated and qualified to help them solve their problem. (This is not the same as liking you.)
In your case, you have decided that the problem is some or other point of English. They disagree. You’re asking them to buy in to something they see as pointless because it doesn’t solve their problem. You don’t know what their problem is. They probably don’t know either, because they’ve never been asked. It’s not part of the educational culture, so you’re left with an ongoing low-grade insurgency. They disagree with you, but they’re not sure why.
The starting point is your relationship with them. If you go into a store and the ‘consultant’ is struggling to conceal his disdain, contempt, dislike, or other negative emotions then you’re not going to buy from him - unless you’ve already made up your mind about what you want and then it’s just a case of haggling about price. This is, coincidentally, how sales are made in Taiwan. Concultative selling is rare, and in most cases the buyer will have decided in advance what they want and will just be looking for the cheapest way to get what they want. Salespeople never raise the value of what they’re selling, they just discount in a desperate bid to get compliance.
Compare and contrast to the store that sells more $s of merchandise per square foot than any other in the USA. That same company doesn’t do focus groups. They don’t ask the customer what they want. They design their products according to their own principles, and then sell those ideas to an increasingly receptive and manageable customer base. I’m talking about Apple, btw.
You’re currently the salesman in the generic electronics store, trying to shift unpopular stock by making it easy to buy and insisting that your product can do X, Y and Z. But nobody’s buying. They’re only in the store because someone sent them there.
Find their hot buttons. They all have a quantity of energy to invest in something, if it’s appealing.
Oh, and remember that if their grades don’t count then you’re not considered to be a teacher by the school. You’re just entertainment, a token whitey with no real educational value. If you are free to design your own lessons, it’s because nobody really cares.
English, the problem, is defined by the university entrance exam, and is a fairly narrow interpretation of what students need. That need is met by local teachers, teaching to the test. They teach English, and you are someone to practise with. That’s how the school perceives you, that’s how the students see you. Insisting on being a teacher will just get you into trouble.
I think it was Bruce Lee that said if you’re wedded to one particular outcome then you’re dead. You seem pretty committed to your objective, when the more rewarding path would be to roll with the situation.
Maybe your mission with these kids is not to teach English, but to wake them up? People who want to learn will teach themselves, or ask you for help. I would advise relaxing and enjoying the class for what it is. Learn to love the kids for who they are, as the foundation for a relationship that might one day lead to them learning something voluntarily.
In principle, I would say the answer is yes. You’re talking about a hypothetical situation though.
It sounds like you’re getting compliance, at best, but not commitment. The kids will go along with what you want them to do, for the sake of an easy life, but have no real interest or motivation.
I used to work in sales, where the goal is to get the customer to commit to the course of action you want and then somehow make it affordable to them. Affordable doesn’t just mean in terms of money, you’re asking them to invest time and energy.
Basically, if you want to get buy-in, you have to be providing an affordable solution to a problem that people want to solve. Here’s the rundown of what I was taught, in reverse order so the outcome is at the top, but bear in mind that as a process it doesn’t work in Taiwan. Nevertheless, all the elements are required before you can get anywhere.
- The customer wants to invest the time, energy, money agreed because it helps them solve a problem. (the problem may be that they haven’t reached a personal goal yet.)
- The customer believes that your solution is the best available, if you can make it affordable.
- Your solution matches all their expectations.
- They really want to solve the problem.
- Their definition of the problem is the same as yours.
- You helped them define the problem more clearly.
- They told you about the problem.
- They believe that you are motivated and qualified to help them solve their problem. (This is not the same as liking you.)
In your case, you have decided that the problem is some or other point of English. They disagree. You’re asking them to buy in to something they see as pointless because it doesn’t solve their problem. You don’t know what their problem is. They probably don’t know either, because they’ve never been asked. It’s not part of the educational culture, so you’re left with an ongoing low-grade insurgency. They disagree with you, but they’re not sure why.
The starting point is your relationship with them. If you go into a store and the ‘consultant’ is struggling to conceal his disdain, contempt, dislike, or other negative emotions then you’re not going to buy from him - unless you’ve already made up your mind about what you want and then it’s just a case of haggling about price. This is, coincidentally, how sales are made in Taiwan. Concultative selling is rare, and in most cases the buyer will have decided in advance what they want and will just be looking for the cheapest way to get what they want. Salespeople never raise the value of what they’re selling, they just discount in a desperate bid to get compliance.
Compare and contrast to the store that sells more $s of merchandise per square foot than any other in the USA. That same company doesn’t do focus groups. They don’t ask the customer what they want. They design their products according to their own principles, and then sell those ideas to an increasingly receptive and manageable customer base. I’m talking about Apple, btw.
You’re currently the salesman in the generic electronics store, trying to shift unpopular stock by making it easy to buy and insisting that your product can do X, Y and Z. But nobody’s buying. They’re only in the store because someone sent them there.
Find their hot buttons. They all have a quantity of energy to invest in something, if it’s appealing.
Oh, and remember that if their grades don’t count then you’re not considered to be a teacher by the school. You’re just entertainment, a token whitey with no real educational value. If you are free to design your own lessons, it’s because nobody really cares.
English, the problem, is defined by the university entrance exam, and is a fairly narrow interpretation of what students need. That need is met by local teachers, teaching to the test. They teach English, and you are someone to practise with. That’s how the school perceives you, that’s how the students see you. Insisting on being a teacher will just get you into trouble.
I think it was Bruce Lee that said if you’re wedded to one particular outcome then you’re dead. You seem pretty committed to your objective, when the more rewarding path would be to roll with the situation.
Maybe your mission with these kids is not to teach English, but to wake them up? People who want to learn will teach themselves, or ask you for help. I would advise relaxing and enjoying the class for what it is. Learn to love the kids for who they are, as the foundation for a relationship that might one day lead to them learning something voluntarily.[/quote]
Very well said. Furthermore one might question whether teaching the content for any subject teacher is the real point of education? Once people acquire a certain level of math and reading skills in their native language they should be able to teach themselves what they want to learn. Maybe teachers miss that the important part of teaching is not so much the content but inspiring and motivating students. Of course GuyInTaiwan is correct. Some people just don’t want to learn what you are teaching. If someone is being forced to learn something and they don’t want to, I think that is ok as long as they are not disrupting others who are trying to learn the subject material.
Yes. We call these people “active learners.” Unfortunatly, there aren’t many active learners in Taiwan, and even fewer in an assigned class with no real grades.
Unmotivated students are what any teacher’s job is about, but they can burn a great teacher out eventually. A teacher’s first job, then, has to be to inspire and engage. It takes a lot of energy. And you really do have to just let go and know that you provide a safe environment, a valuable lesson on offer, and an opportunity to succede at something. After that, it’s all just trying to get as much out of your own day as you can.
As long as you go home at night knowing that you did your best job as a teacher, then you’ve done your job. When you were a student, it was your responsibility to do your best job as a student, right? Now, your students have to have some responsibility for their own learning.
Loretta: That’s great. Thanks. Prior to reading your post, I sent you a private message in response to yours that may explain a lot of what I’ve been doing and what’s been going on. Maybe I should paste a lot of what I wrote there in here.
The “hot button” for students is talking about THEM. Not about “George and Mary” in the textbook. No one cares about George and Mary. They do, however, care about themselves. And any grammar point or vocabulary that can be taught using George and Mary can be taught (and more effectively taught) by shifting the topic to the actual students in the classroom.
Language acquisition is easy to facilitate – just give lots of comprehensible input. How do you get kids to sit still for CI? By talking and reading about topics they care about (aka THEM, not “things people think they should like”.) If you can get enough CI into a person’s head, he WILL acquire the language.
“Active learning” is still just learning. Learning is for facts, not languages. Learning isn’t the most efficient way to get to proficiency in a language, and obviously it isn’t even close when the learner isn’t being active about learning. The great advantage of CI is that it reaches all those passive learners and those who believe they “can’t” acquire a language. The only students who sometimes don’t like it are the “stars” who are academically and analytically-minded and don’t like giving up their superiority to the “dumb kids” in the class and/or the joy (for them) of figuring out how the grammar works and getting 100% on their worksheets.
Except that some Taiwanese seem to do nothing other than work and watch TV. It makes it difficult for them to talk about themselves even if you are speaking Mandarin.
steelersman: Hence the classic, “What are your hobbies?” “Sleeping.” “Okay, what did you do on the weekend?” “I slept.” “Ah…okay.”
[quote=“ironlady”]The “hot button” for students is talking about THEM. Not about “George and Mary” in the textbook. No one cares about George and Mary. They do, however, care about themselves. And any grammar point or vocabulary that can be taught using George and Mary can be taught (and more effectively taught) by shifting the topic to the actual students in the classroom.
Language acquisition is easy to facilitate – just give lots of comprehensible input. How do you get kids to sit still for CI? By talking and reading about topics they care about (aka THEM, not “things people think they should like”.) If you can get enough CI into a person’s head, he WILL acquire the language.
“Active learning” is still just learning. Learning is for facts, not languages. Learning isn’t the most efficient way to get to proficiency in a language, and obviously it isn’t even close when the learner isn’t being active about learning. The great advantage of CI is that it reaches all those passive learners and those who believe they “can’t” acquire a language. The only students who sometimes don’t like it are the “stars” who are academically and analytically-minded and don’t like giving up their superiority to the “dumb kids” in the class and/or the joy (for them) of figuring out how the grammar works and getting 100% on their worksheets.[/quote]
While I agree that your methods work well for interested students, I still really don’t see them motivating a bunch of Taiwanese junior high kids to actually study English. Basically you are telling me things that I have tried. I have taught pop songs, fashion, sports, etc. No matter what, I get half a class of kids who don’t give a shit. It is difficult to get junior high kids motivated without the stick or in most cases a grade.
Of course a more curious predicament is the grade. Why do Taiwanese take grades so seriously?
Ah, because that’s what gets you into a good senior high, university, the bench mark in TOEIC/GEPT and “proves” that you have “learned” something.
I was happily told by an adult student that one of my fellow Taiwanese teachers recently got 990 on the TOEIC. I was rather surprised as the teacher in this case has what I what deem to be very mediocre English. He hardly ever speaks to me in English, and quite often teaches in Chinese… :loco:
Ah, because that’s what gets you into a good senior high, university, the bench mark in TOEIC/GEPT and “proves” that you have “learned” something.
I was happily told by an adult student that one of my fellow Taiwanese teachers recently got 990 on the TOEIC. I was rather surprised as the teacher in this case has what I what deem to be very mediocre English. He hardly ever speaks to me in English, and quite often teaches in Chinese… :loco:[/quote]
But it even seems that some kids care about cram school grades?
Furthermore without a good university entrance exam score, good grades are meaningless.
steelersman: They might have their parents breathing down their necks about their grades at cram schools. Their parents probably tell them they pay a lot of money to send them there, so they’d better get good grades.
bismarck: Teaching in Chinese is pretty standard practice in government schools too.
Abso-bloody-lutely.
And if they have nothing to talk about, push them to lie, ie to dream. Ask them to bitch. Given the chance, most kids are happy to tell you what’s wrong with the education system, they don’t need us to do that. If they’re happy telling you what’s wrong, maybe they can tell you what they would change, how they would change it, what they would prefer to be doing, who their favourite stars are, and so on on an upwards trajectory of participation.
The basic problem here is one of empowerment. Most kids feel that it doesn’t really matter what they think, feel, or do, because all the decisions are made for them. Talking about George and Mary is part of it. All they want to do is fob you off with the easiest most minimal answer, and relax a bit.
My first class with any new group of students includes a very serious warning that I don’t give a shit what they say, as long as it’s in English. They’re free to bullshit, complain, or get the answer wrong. All I want is language. It takes a few lessons for them to get the idea that there are no wrong answers, only wrong attitutdes, but they get there.
If you’re feeling brave, ask your students to write you a letter telling you that you’re fired and explaining why. Tell them to list at least three reasons and give details. Walk around the class reading extracts from the most creative ones, having a laugh with them about your bad smell or strange mannerisms, and quietly take note of any feedback.
I had a class last week that had been instructed by another teacher to write down everything I said as some kind of listening practise. I was pretty annoyed, as the bitch was taking liberties by telling them not to actually pay attention.
So I pulled up a video of someone giving a speech. Normal, native-speaker English is way too fast and complex for them so I picked one with the full text available, and turned on the Chinese sub-titles for good measure.
Then I asked them what they remembered, all the anecdotes and main points, and put them on the board. Then told them to write. No parameters, just tell me what you remember or what you think is important, or what your ideas are, or anything else inspired by the talk. I set a minimum of 200 words, which caused them to gasp with horror, but most of them eventually wrote far more. In fact, I had to abandon my plan of taking the books home to grade them. They wanted more time to finish, even though I wasn’t requiring them to finish.
The talk was this one: ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_r … ivity.html
Except that some Taiwanese seem to do nothing other than work and watch TV. It makes it difficult for them to talk about themselves even if you are speaking Mandarin.[/quote]
Although this is true you’re thinking inside of a box (or you’re the class clown). You can use FC’s to give them answers. When I’m going thru the past tense with a class I’ll ask ‘What did student X do last Saturday?’ How did student Y get to school this morning? When did student Z _______________? I’ll give normal answers for the first couple so they understand the SP and then use the sunbathing FC for What did. And then use swim, skate, hop, ride an elephant, etc for the how did.
This is simple, easy and usually gets some laughs out of the students for the boring part of class. After understand the basics you can then do an activity instead of a worksheet. I don’t really see how anyone can expect kids to be interested in doing worksheets after they have sat thru 8 hours of school and possibly a different anchiban or buxiban before going to your English class.
Here’s some things I’ve found out while teaching middle school students and working with other teachers…
(1) most worksheets are generally ways for teachers to eat up class time;
(2) a teacher’s job is to get students speaking/interested/motivated/thinking;
(3) if a teacher can surprise students, students will respond better;
(4) if a teacher focuses on transmitting information, they are not really helping students;
(5) if a teacher does not carefully select what they teach, they are doing a BAD job.
(6) the students should be the focus of the teacher, not the information.
There are many more.