A few question on US presidential power

what stands between what bush comes up with in his -ahem- head and the actual final actions?

example:
bush decide it’s time to attack Iran,does he have full power to do so,or must that be agreed by a committee/senate?

other question is

on key decisions (not just military),must he seek the approval of a committee too?

he’s coming to the end of his term,without possibilities for re-election,so can he make moves in order to “screw” the next elected president?

(i take bush’s example to begin with,but feel free to add info on how it work elsewhere too)

US Presidential duties and powers

Article II, US Constitution

[quote=“dablindfrog”]what stands between what bush comes up with in his -ahem- head and the actual final actions?

example:
bush decide it’s time to attack Iran,does he have full power to do so,or must that be agreed by a committee/senate?[/quote]

If the Germans decide to kick France’s ass [i]again[/i]…

I imagine he’d send American troops there to fight, die and liberate you…

[i]again.[/i]

With or without congressional approval.

[quote=“Doctor Evil”]If the Germans decide to kick France’s ass [i]again[/i]…

I imagine he’d send American troops there to fight, die and liberate you…

[i]again.[/i]

With or without congressional approval.[/quote]

And if the Brits ever decide to kick the US’s ass again, will the French save our skins again? (We wouldn’t have won the Revolutionary War without France’s help, but the French at least have the decency not to hang that over America’s heads.)

The French involvement in the war only happened when the tide started to turn. Nevertheless I’m sure it was still appreciated.

here we go,a perfectly honest query turns into that same old bullshit of “when we saved your asses”

thankyou tainan cowboy for your reply,i do hope there is a proper discussion emerging from my question…
remember, i’m not the only one who really doesn’t know what the deal is concerning US president’s power,nor is the US constitution studied in schools of foreign countries(i know,hard to grasp for the ever navel gazing americans)

DBF -
The US Presidency, the Executive branch, along with the Legislative and Judicial, is a system of “Checks & Balances.” That is, no one part is able to over-ride the other.

Contrary to what some might wish to promote, the US Presidency is not one of unlimited power used at whim for personal desires.

But didn’t he claim that he as the commander in chief of the armed forces can send them to Iran, without that he needs the approval of congress (which could only cut his funding but otherwise not stop him)?

That is correct. From the US Department of Justice:

[quote]First, it is clear that the Constitution secures all federal executive power in the President to ensure a unity in purpose and energy in action. “Decision, activity, secrecy, and dispatch will generally characterize the proceedings of one man in a much more eminent degree than the proceedings of any greater number.” The Federalist No. 70, at 392 (Alexander Hamilton). The centralization of authority in the President alone is particularly crucial in matters of national defense, war, and foreign policy, where a unitary executive can evaluate threats, consider policy choices, and mobilize national resources with a speed and energy that is far superior to any other branch. As Hamilton noted, “Energy in the executive is a leading character in the definition of good government. It is essential to the protection of the community against foreign attacks.” Id. at 391. This is no less true in war. “Of all the cares or concerns of government, the direction of war most peculiarly demands those qualities which distinguish the exercise of power by a single hand.” Id. No. 74, at 415 (Alexander Hamilton). (9)

   Second, the Constitution makes clear that the process used for conducting military hostilities is different from other government decisionmaking. In the area of domestic legislation, the Constitution creates a detailed, finely wrought procedure in which Congress plays the central role. In foreign affairs, however, the Constitution does not establish a mandatory, detailed, Congress-driven procedure for taking action. [b]Rather, the Constitution vests the two branches with different powers - the President as Commander in Chief, Congress with control over funding and declaring war [/b]- without requiring that they follow a specific process in making war. By establishing this framework, the Framers expected that the process for warmaking would be far more flexible, and capable of quicker, more decisive action, than the legislative process. [b]Thus, the President may use his Commander-in-Chief and executive powers to use military force to protect the Nation, subject to congressional appropriations and control over domestic legislation.[/b]
   Third, the constitutional structure requires that any ambiguities in the allocation of a power that is executive in nature - such as the power to conduct military hostilities - must be resolved in favor of the executive branch. Article II, section 1 provides that "[t]he executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States." U.S. Const. art. II, § 1. By contrast, Article I's Vesting Clause gives Congress only the powers "herein granted." Id. art. I, § 1. This difference in language indicates that Congress's legislative powers are limited to the list enumerated in Article I, section 8, while the President's powers include inherent executive powers that are unenumerated in the Constitution. To be sure, Article II lists specifically enumerated powers in addition to the Vesting Clause, and some have argued that this limits the "executive Power" granted in the Vesting Clause to the powers on that list. But the purpose of the enumeration of executive powers in Article II was not to define and cabin the grant in the Vesting Clause. Rather, the Framers unbundled some plenary powers that had traditionally been regarded as "executive," assigning elements of those powers to Congress in Article I, while expressly reserving other elements as enumerated executive powers in Article II. So, for example, the King's traditional power to declare war was given to Congress under Article I, while the Commander-in-Chief authority was expressly reserved to the President in Article II. Further, the Framers altered other plenary powers of the King, such as treaties and appointments, assigning the Senate a share in them in Article II itself. (10) Thus, the enumeration in Article II marks the points at which several traditional executive powers were diluted or reallocated. Any other, unenumerated executive powers, however, were conveyed to the President by the Vesting Clause. 

   [b]There can be little doubt that the decision to deploy military force is "executive" in nature, and was traditionally so regarded[/b]. It calls for action and energy in execution, rather than the deliberate formulation of rules to govern the conduct of private individuals. Moreover, the Framers understood it to be an attribute of the executive. "The direction of war implies the direction of the common strength," wrote Alexander Hamilton, "and the power of directing and employing the common strength forms a usual and essential part in the definition of the executive authority." The Federalist No. 74, at 415 (Alexander Hamilton). As a result, to the extent that the constitutional text does not explicitly allocate the power to initiate military hostilities to a particular branch, the Vesting Clause provides that it remain among the President's unenumerated powers.

   Fourth, depriving the President of the power to decide when to use military force would disrupt the basic constitutional framework of foreign relations. From the very beginnings of the Republic, the vesting of the executive, Commander-in-Chief, and treaty powers in the executive branch has been understood to grant the President plenary control over the conduct of foreign relations. As Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson observed during the first Washington Administration: "the constitution has divided the powers of government into three branches [and] has declared that the executive powers shall be vested in the president, submitting only special articles of it to a negative by the senate." Due to this structure, Jefferson continued, "the transaction of business with foreign nations is executive altogether; it belongs, then, to the head of that department, except as to such portions of it as are specially submitted to the senate. Exceptions are to be construed strictly." Thomas Jefferson, Opinion on the Powers of the Senate (1790), reprinted in 5 The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, at 161 (Paul L. Ford ed., 1895). In defending President Washington's authority to issue the Neutrality Proclamation, Alexander Hamilton came to the same interpretation of the President's foreign affairs powers. According to Hamilton, Article II "ought . . . to be considered as intended . . . to specify and regulate the principal articles implied in the definition of Executive Power; leaving the rest to flow from the general grant of that power." Alexander Hamilton, Pacificus No. 1 (1793), reprinted in 15 The Papers of Alexander Hamilton, at 33, 39 (Harold C. Syrett et al. eds., 1969). As future Chief Justice John Marshall famously declared a few years later, "The President is the sole organ of the nation in its external relations, and its sole representative with foreign nations. . . . The [executive] department . . . is entrusted with the whole foreign intercourse of the nation . . . ." 10 Annals of Cong. 613-14 (1800). Given the agreement of Jefferson, Hamilton, and Marshall, it has not been difficult for the executive branch consistently to assert the President's plenary authority in foreign affairs ever since.

     [b]In the relatively few occasions where it has addressed foreign affairs, the Supreme Court has agreed with the executive branch's consistent interpretation. Conducting foreign affairs and protecting the national security are, as the Supreme Court has observed, "'central' Presidential domains." [/b]Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800, 812 n.19 (1982). The President's constitutional primacy flows from both his unique position in the constitutional structure, and from the specific grants of authority in Article II that make the President both the Chief Executive of the Nation and the Commander in Chief. See Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731, 749-50 (1982). Due to the President's constitutionally superior position, the Supreme Court has consistently "recognized 'the generally accepted view that foreign policy [is] the province and responsibility of the Executive.'" Department of the Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518, 529 (1988) (quoting Haig v. Agee, 453 U.S. at 293-94). "The Founders in their wisdom made [the President] not only the Commander-in-Chief but also the guiding organ in the conduct of our foreign affairs," possessing "vast powers in relation to the outside world." Ludecke v. Watkins, 335 U.S. 160, 173 (1948). This foreign affairs power is exclusive: it is "the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power of the President as sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations - a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress." United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp., 299 U.S. 304, 320 (1936).

     [b]Conducting military hostilities is a central tool for the exercise of the President's plenary control over the conduct of foreign policy.[/b] There can be no doubt that the use of force protects the Nation's security and helps it achieve its foreign policy goals. Construing the Constitution to grant such power to another branch could prevent the President from exercising his core constitutional responsibilities in foreign affairs. Even in the cases in which the Supreme Court has limited executive authority, it has also emphasized that we should not construe legislative prerogatives to prevent the executive branch "from accomplishing its constitutionally assigned functions." Nixon v. Administrator of General Servs., 433 U.S. 425, 443 (1977).[/quote]

usdoj.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm

Note also the very topic of the web page talks about the War Powers Resolution and the Joint Resolution passed three days after 9/11 which specifically granted the President broad Executive power to

[quote][b]retaliate against any person, organization, or State suspected of involvement in terrorist attacks on the United States, but also against foreign States suspected of harboring or supporting such organizations.

    The President may deploy military force preemptively against terrorist organizations or the States that harbor or support them, whether or not they can be linked to the specific terrorist incidents of September 11.[/b] [/quote]

Does that clarify things a bit?

The interplay between Congressional power over spending and declaring war, and the president’s power as commander-in-chief have come up many times over the nation’s history, going back at least as far back as Jefferson. In most undeclared wars, there ends up being litigation of some sort over how much power the president have. However, the president is almost always able to take action in the short term, and even if such action were later deemed illegal, there’s not really anyone who can stop him until after it’s done.

Errr…I meant “top” of the web page.

That is correct. From the US Department of Justice:

[quote]First, it is clear that the Constitution secures all federal executive power in the President to ensure a unity in purpose and energy in action. “Decision, activity, secrecy, and dispatch will generally characterize the proceedings of one man in a much more eminent degree than the proceedings of any greater number.” The Federalist No. 70, at 392 (Alexander Hamilton). [b]

etc.

[/quote]

usdoj.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm

Does that clarify things a bit?[/quote]

Yes, that’s an argument from one of the interested parties. Whether it’s correct or not is what’s under discussion.

That is correct. From the US Department of Justice:

[quote]First, it is clear that the Constitution secures all federal executive power in the President to ensure a unity in purpose and energy in action. “Decision, activity, secrecy, and dispatch will generally characterize the proceedings of one man in a much more eminent degree than the proceedings of any greater number.” The Federalist No. 70, at 392 (Alexander Hamilton). [b]

etc.

[/quote]

usdoj.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm

Does that clarify things a bit?[/quote]

Yes, that’s an argument from one of the interested parties. Whether it’s correct or not is what’s under discussion.[/quote]

The Constitution makes the President the CinC, and gives him the ability to make war, BUT IT IS Article One that vests the declaration of War with the Congress . That’s why previously, the President took the case for war to Congress for approval.

Article 1, Section 8, among other powers, gives Congress the power to:
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

The Federalist papers are always interesting insight into the contemporaries, but they are not the Constitution itself, and cannot be substituted for its interpretation. Often, they are the opinions of those who wanted the Constitution to be read their way, but who weren’t able to draft the Constitution their way. I would not put too much weight into the F.P. especially if it contradicts the plain language of the Constitution as in this case.

generally I’m ok with one man deciding a retaliation over a blatant attack (as was the case on 9/11)

but a military action that doesn’t require swift deployment should be a matter of type “referendum”,not by the entire population of course,just by senior ,well established, respected men and women from different political backgrounds.

how about my next question of
“what exactly stops a president ,2 months from the end of his term,from signing up all kind of silly rules/laws that would leave a huge mess on the shoulders of a new government?”

[quote=“dablindfrog”]how about my next question of
“what exactly stops a president ,2 months from the end of his term,from signing up all kind of silly rules/laws that would leave a huge mess on the shoulders of a new government?”[/quote]

The constitutional powers of the president do not really change much from the begining of his/her term to the end. So a president could institute all kids of silly policies that would leave a huge mess on the shoulders of the new government at any time during the 4/8 years in office. I suppose, though, that the potential to screw things up is somewhat more limited in last two months since (a) “lame duck” presidents tend to have less practical power (even if the constitutional power is the same) in the last two months as other powerful people become less willing to defer, and (b) the silly policies only have two months to do their damage (not that a lot of damage couldn’t be done in two months – but certainly less than was possible in the previous 8 years).

Afghanistan was in the way of that pipeline that we wanted to build to Central Asia even though it still ain’t got built so we had to invade because of Big Oil. Then, we invaded Iraq and continue to occupy it because Iraq has lots of oil and we want it. Iran has a lot of oil too so I think that Bush should invade it so that we can control the oil there too and then Big Oil will make a lot of money. Does anyone else have oil? Saudi Arabia? But we don’t need to invade because they sell it to us right?

Well…some Presidents have spent their last days issuing an extremely large amount of Presidential pardons to a large number of very unsavory characters. Many of which were large $$$$ contributors to their “special” causes.

holy guacamole fred,
is it that bottle of pouilly fume wine that brought you this long waited window of clairvoyance and lucidity??? :noway:

That is correct. From the US Department of Justice:

[quote]First, it is clear that the Constitution secures all federal executive power in the President to ensure a unity in purpose and energy in action. “Decision, activity, secrecy, and dispatch will generally characterize the proceedings of one man in a much more eminent degree than the proceedings of any greater number.” The Federalist No. 70, at 392 (Alexander Hamilton). [b]

etc.

[/quote]

usdoj.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm

Does that clarify things a bit?[/quote]

Yes, that’s an argument from one of the interested parties. Whether it’s correct or not is what’s under discussion.[/quote]

It’s the best legal argument I’ve seen so far. In any case it isn’t likely Bush would dare to invade Iran without the approval of Congress. He got Congressional authorization to invade Iraq in a resolution separate from the War Powers Resolution and the Joint Resolution passed the year before. Think he could get the resolution if he wanted it?