A great deal of

Is there any rule concerning the noun that follows “a great deal of”?

other than it should be a noncount noun or a plural?

other than it should be a noncount noun or a plural?[/quote]

Are you saying it cannot be a plural noun?

other than it should be a noncount noun or a plural?[/quote]

Are you saying it cannot be a plural noun?[/quote]

No, I’m saying it should be a plural noun OR a noncount noun.

other than it should be a noncount noun or a plural?[/quote]

Are you saying it cannot be a plural noun?[/quote]

No, I’m saying it should be a plural noun OR a noncount noun.[/quote]

I was just making certain. It should be correct to say “a great deal of students” then, am I right?

Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.

[quote=“jdsmith”]Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.[/quote]

My Chinese co-teacher says, it may only be used with noncount nouns.

[quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”]Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.[/quote]

My Chinese co-teacher says, it may only be used with noncount nouns.[/quote]

Well, wake her up and say, “A great deal of bananas went on sale this morning.”

Although, “A great MANY” might be more commonly known.

Ask puiwuihan. He should know.

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”]Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.[/quote]

My Chinese co-teacher says, it may only be used with noncount nouns.[/quote]

Well, wake her up and say, “A great deal of bananas went on sale this morning.”

Although, “A great MANY” might be more commonly known.

Ask puiwuihan. He should know.[/quote]

Based on that and the fact that I said I would check it on the internet, she asked me whether english was my first language. I’ve had it up to here with these instant gurus.

[quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”]Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.[/quote]

My Chinese co-teacher says, it may only be used with noncount nouns.[/quote]

Well, wake her up and say, “A great deal of bananas went on sale this morning.”

Although, “A great MANY” might be more commonly known.

Ask puiwuihan. He should know.[/quote]

Based on that and the fact that I said I would check it on the internet, she asked me whether English was my first language. I’ve had it up to here with these instant gurus.[/quote]

THIS is how you check it on the internet??
LOLOLOLOLOL

In “Practical English Usage”, Michael Swan writes that “a great deal of” and “a large amount of” are generally used with uncountable nouns.

I’m sure you can find examples with count nouns, but I think that in this case it would emphasise their collective nature, so you probably wouldn’t say “a great deal of students” unless you felt that they were a noisy rabble among whom you really couldn’t tell one from another!

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“jdsmith”]Sounds good to me.

And I are a English teacher.[/quote]

My Chinese co-teacher says, it may only be used with noncount nouns.[/quote]

Well, wake her up and say, “A great deal of bananas went on sale this morning.”

Although, “A great MANY” might be more commonly known.

Ask puiwuihan. He should know.[/quote]

Based on that and the fact that I said I would check it on the internet, she asked me whether English was my first language. I’ve had it up to here with these instant gurus.[/quote]

THIS is how you check it on the internet??
LOLOLOLOLOL[/quote]

Please, I can give you some links.

search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22a+g … =&ei=UTF-8

google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 … oogle+Sear
Not all the references are appropriate.

[quote=“joesax”]In “Practical English Usage”, Michael Swan writes that “a great deal of” and “a large amount of” are generally used with uncountable nouns.

I’m sure you can find examples with count nouns, but I think that in this case it would emphasise their collective nature, so you probably wouldn’t say “a great deal of students” unless you felt that they were a noisy rabble among whom you really couldn’t tell one from another![/quote]

amazon.com/gp/product/019431 … e&n=283155

The reviews look good, but in practice there is a great deal of folks who do say “a great deal of students”.

No. Sounds dumb.

[quote=“Rinkals”][quote=“joesax”]In “Practical English Usage”, Michael Swan writes that “a great deal of” and “a large amount of” are generally used with uncountable nouns.

I’m sure you can find examples with count nouns, but I think that in this case it would emphasise their collective nature, so you probably wouldn’t say “a great deal of students” unless you felt that they were a noisy rabble among whom you really couldn’t tell one from another![/quote]

amazon.com/gp/product/019431 … e&n=283155

The reviews look good, but in practice there is a great deal of folks who do say “a great deal of students”.[/quote]A great deal being about 421, as opposed to the 1,290,000 who wrote “a great deal of money”? :wink: (For our purposes the numbers are smaller, because, as you noted, some of the uses are adverbial, or refer to something else such as “students’ time”.)

What people like Swan do when they analyse data from corpora is to look at general trends. It seems that in general it is more common to use “a great deal of” for uncountable nouns. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t ever used for countable nouns. I do think that when it is used in this latter way, it can have a sense of collectivity, of non-individuality.

Either that it or it just sounds dumb. :idunno:

I rest my case.

Whatever. If you want really dumb look at your question.

“Should” be “correct”? Should? Where? In narrow contexts like the one Joesax described?

Even there it sounds distinctly off to me. “A great deal of the students” rushed the stage. Huh? Wouldn’t it be more normal sounding to just say “a lot of the students” rushed the stage or “most of the students” rushed the stage? Of course you could use “a great deal of” with a countable noun in a sentence like “we expect a great deal of our students” but that is rather a different kettle of fish. Anyway…

Correct? According to whom? If you look at the statistics that Joe provided it certainly doesn’t seem like a common usage (except in the “expect/demand a great deal of” sense) but to those who employ it I suppose it would seem “correct”.

What you can look at though is the sort of statistical perspective that joesax provided, or else gut reactions from native speakers who care enough about the language to respond to the question. That is what I gave you. Please notice that my intuitive, negative reaction to the phrase used with a countable noun was quite clearly supported by the statistics as well as by Michael Swan’s comment that [quote]“a great deal of” and “a large amount of” are generally used with uncountable nouns.
[/quote].

“A great deal of students” is dumb “because” it sounds dumb and perhaps for other reasons as well. If one of my students said it, outside of that rare sort of context mentioned above, I would correct them.

In this forum it is possible, usually, to assume that your readers possess a certain amount of knowledge about language in general and for that reason it is not necessary, usually, to explain things in such detail. I’m confident that Puiwaihin, Joesax etc. knew exactly what I meant by “No. It sounds dumb”. Sorry you didn’t.

P.S. Jdsmith was toying with you, I suspect because he didn’t feel like providing free English lessons yesterday.

I’m with little b. Sounds dumb. Don’t use it. Time, money, effort you can have a great deal of. Students, cows, prawns you can have an awful lot of but not a great deal of. Because it sounds dumb.

Here’s one for you:

Why is it “stand” and not “stands” in the sentence below:

“This tale of chivalry and adventure has done much more than stand the test of time.”