It’s been 5000 years of history, sure, but that has been 5000 years of sinocentricity and xenophobia. The traditional structure of Chinese society discourages lateral thought, focussing largely on logic and method. Not to say that Chinese aren’t capable of lateral thought and creativity, it’s just that these human characteristics have been repressed for a long time.
[quote]I wish I could say Chinese engineers are inventive but I haven’t personally seen a drop of creativity among them. They even tell me they aren’t creative problem solvers and are only too happy to let me handle it all. All I’ve seen is antipathy to real inventiveness. I regularly hear statements like ‘the danger of innovation (costs, risks of failure)’ and ‘but it doesn’t look like an (existing product.)’
I’ve found their definition of innovation to be scouring the internet for some new, successful product and being the first to copy it. [/quote]
Maybe this can be attributed to the fact that in places where there are more people, there is more competition. No time to sit on your arse and come up with pogo-shoes, or banana hammocks. The idea of making as much money as quickly as possible, in the easiest, most underhand way, is one which is quite reasonable given China’s cultural history.
How about the Taiwanese ability to completely reinvent themselves, their country, their society, and culture in a generation. My wife’s mother was married to a local business as the “second” wife. Not much more exalted than a concubine. Thirty years later her daughter freely marries a waigworen for love. God, how that 5,000 year old tradition justs stiffles me here!
Hong Kong style actions films (ganster and kung fu) which are imitated the world over now.
Cloud Gate dance company which melds western and eastern styles of dance and theatre in spectacles new and wonderful.
I can’t remember their names offhand but the father and son team who revolutionized and revitalized traditional hand puppetry in the 70’s turning it into a modern art/entertainment form.
James Soong’s explanations where those billions of dollars went to.
And in other news, Communist China has unveiled a new plan to take Communism to new heights, outer space!
This Communist city in the sky will be built using knowledge, wisdom and great technological advances gathered during the past 5000 years. From gunpowder to fire their rockets, to propeller hats they’ll use incase of emergency landings, all were first discovered and invented in China, hundreds of years before anywhere else.
This new Communist land, dubbed ‘Outer China’ will be built just as soon as they figure out how to strap ‘Bobo’ the baboon to his seat for the first test flight.
[quote=“American engineer”]I regularly hear statements like ‘the danger of innovation (costs, risks of failure)’ and ‘but it doesn’t look like an (existing product.)’
I’ve found their definition of innovation to be scouring the internet for some new, successful product and being the first to copy it.[/quote]
The overseas buyers I know and work with all refer to the R&D group (in any local company) as the ‘rip-off-and-duplicate department’…
He invented the cocktail treatment, not the vaccine (The verified invention of an AIDS vaccine has as far as I know not taken place yet). They thought they had a cure for a few weeks, but unfortunately it isn’t.
The Chinese certainly invented a lot of useful stuff, but they do tend to claim they invented practically everything. I have heard Chinese people tell me in all seriousness that it was the Chinese who invented both pizza and soccer! They may have had something that remotely resembled thoise things way back when but that hardly constitutes invention.
Also, this business about 5000 years - I thought it was ‘only’ 3000 (?).
OT: While I’m here - why do people still swallow that classic urban myth about the Great Wall of China being the only man-made strcuture visible to the naked eye from space? It just isn’t true. Don’t tell Chinese people that though. It pisses them off.
Without having seen Monkey’s original post, I’m not exactly sure what is at issue here, but based on what is currently discussed, the following thoughts come to mind:
What are we referring to when we talk about the inventiveness (or non-inventiveness) of a GROUP of people? Surely we’re not saying that there isn’t one Chinese person in the world with an inventive bone in his/her body? By the same token, surely we’re not saying that there’s another group of people floating around just teeming with inventive people, where every member is a potential Edison?
Which begs the question… when we talk about civilizations–ancient and otherwise–that are noted for their inventiveness, who are we talking about? That is to say, chances are, inventions like gunpowder and the water clock and Archimedes’ screw and the light bulb were probably invented by INDIVIDUALS, not whole societies (even though we may attribute the inventiveness to the whole civilization).
3… Then, you wonder WHO those (inventing) individuals were? In China of thousands of years ago, who was doing most of the inventing? I don’t know the answer off the top of my head, but realistically speaking, many of those inventions probably came from within the Imperial Court, which more likely had the resources (and the leisure) to support and encourage the spate of inventiveness we’re talking about (as opposed to say, a village of farmers).
Taking a broader perspective, China of thousands of years ago might then be compared to Egypt of thousands of years ago, or the Ancient Roman Empire, or even the U.S. today. Each of these societies has shown great periods of growth in its own time; China today is vastly different from dynastic China… ditto Egypt and Italy. (I guess this point is partly directed towards the “what have you done for me lately?” issue.)
So I wonder, is it misguided to think that EVERY MEMBER of even a particularly prolific society’s individuals were/are extraordinarily inventive (e.g. Imperial China, 20th century U.S.), let alone members of the same society in a different time and place?
We all agree that China, as a nation, has invented all kinds of stuff, just not much in recent history.
I read somewhere that the PRC aims to establish a colony on the moon. Is that for real, or just silly “we’re the greatest nation/race on the planet” propaganda?
Quite true. Unlike me, a big-nosed foreign devil, who only thinks of work or other activities in terms of the benefits they can give mankind…and harp seals.
I am driven by the need to make other people and harmless creatures happy, particularly by giving them money (if they are Easterners or “Eaterners,” which could have something to do with comestibles, I suppose), although animals, I find, have a limited use for money.
Although Jainism is not a Western concept, it should have been, right?
“Even if all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he will not appreciate the truth, even as the spoon does not appreciate the flavor of the soup.”
The Buddha
[quote]A friend of mine, after hearing people say that China has a 5000 year history, used to reply: “Oh really? Well what have you done lately?”
A bit of a slap in the face, eh?
[/quote]
One of the exceptions. David Ho developed what is known as the “Cocktail Drug Therapy” to stop the HIV virus reproductive process. He is not of Chinese nationality all right, but definitely of Chinese race, in case some are wondering about the natural difference of races here.
And many Chinese descendent Nobel Laureates in science over the past 100 years.
The list goes on…
Taiwanese and maybe chinese now, are known for their copying ability.
Sometimes they are bad copies (quality). Sometimes they are improved copies. Sometimes they are useless improved copies. These are the times that you think about who is going to buy this, and how are we supposed to use this?
The years that I’ve spent roaming the Taiwan trade shows for interesting new products I saw a lot of so called improved copies (junk!). Yes, Taiwan improved a lot and degraded it to junk, and lots of it was patented or was patent pending.
BTW, Italians invented noodles. Marco Polo introduced it to the Chinese. So, there is no Spaghetti tree as many of you believe.
er…yes
So, there is no Spaghetti tree as many of you believe.