[quote=“monkey”][quote=“djkonstable”]
I think over the next 20-30 years Taiwan’s immigrant population will help push some of the society out of its chabuduo mindset. [/quote]
Dream on …
Taiwan is a 3rd world country with a few high-tech baubles that give it a veneer of modernity. An influx of mail order brides from Vietnam and mainland China is not going to change a single thing.[/quote]
Or the fact that Asia is the next 100 years of economic boom? Perhaps you can run over to Singapore. Have you been in a 3rd world country? Things look quite different than Taiwan
Uneducated immigrants from Vietnam and China will be assimilated more than anything. I dont think they will change much of anything here. But I sure hope they open more Vietnamese restaurants.
I hope so too, but I went to one recently the soup broth almost made me puke. I hope that no one goes there expecting “Vietnamese” food because they will be turned off it forever. It is kind of like getting a bad clam for the first time :lick: . shudder.
[quote=“djkonstable”][quote=“monkey”][quote=“djkonstable”]
I think over the next 20-30 years Taiwan’s immigrant population will help push some of the society out of its chabuduo mindset. [/quote]
Dream on …
Taiwan is a 3rd world country with a few high-tech baubles that give it a veneer of modernity. An influx of mail order brides from Vietnam and mainland China is not going to change a single thing.[/quote]
Or the fact that Asia is the next 100 years of economic boom? Perhaps you can run over to Singapore. Have you been in a 3rd world country? Things look quite different than Taiwan[/quote]
I think this is the root cause of much unhappiness among Westerners in Taiwan - the refusal to admit that they live in a 3rd world country, have married a 3rd world person, work for a 3rd world boss, etc. Accept it an get over it - life will be better. There is a chengyu that perfectly describes your plan to sell deluxe Italian-style noodles to the locals: 對牛彈琴. Good luck with that.
對牛彈琴 True, at this point it is just an idea. I may make the sauces for my wife or teach her the recipes and as long as she can saute she can serve noodles all day long. My main money comes from selling paintings and sometimes lessons for private art students. Worst of the worst is in a few years I just do painting workshops in America or run painting tours here or in China. I am a professional artist and I am a juried member of multiple prestigious art organizations. I export 95% of my paintings, I love Taiwan, I know it is chabudou sometimes I just think the country can be more. It is not third world though. Taipei and Taichung seem to be getting more regulated, kind of sad actually.
Anybody who calls Taiwan third world doesn’t have a clue. I just got back from the HSR station in Taichung. It’s a great piece of architecture and engineering. A few weeks ago I was on the HSR in China with a manager over from the UK . The guy was blown away by just taking the HSR. If you know China’s HSR you know that the stations and service do not even compare with Taiwan’s. He would have been amazed at the system here. Just like the last poster said things are quite regulated in some ways here now. Others not so. But no comparison whatsoever to a real third world country like Cambodia.
[quote=“Petrichor”]
Actually, I’m a pretty good cook. But at the end of the day it’s just food, not holy sacrament. Carry on boring your wife with ‘education’ on the difference between Italian cooking and Italian American cooking and have a happy marriage!
Oh, and you’re right, I didn’t address your question about the ‘good enough’ nature of Taiwan because I lost interest in what you were saying. But on the tossing the pasta in the pan versus turning it with tongs, the former is easy if you’re a big strong man. Not if you’re an Asian-sized woman. If I were to be cooking food as a job I would not be able to stand there tossing a pan all night.[/quote]
You obviously have many things to learn about cooking. A saute pan which pasta aka noodles are finished in are chosen by the chef/ cook. They are generally not heavy and the good ones have a long handle to facilitate sauteing and tossing. They are specifically made for the purpose of flipping because they have high straight sides. They have an easy handling nature versus a large wok. You can toss these type of pans with a flick of the wrist. So obviously, you know nothing about this. My wife doesn’t want to just throw the sauce on top of the noodles. She hates that style so if she wants to saute I will teach her. It really is her business not mine. I just get to be the white guy looking fancy to attract attention and bring more business. Kind of like working in China as a suit boy or showing up when English schools need a poster boy to make them look “good” And why is information or the history of food boring? If you felt bored you could have just moved along to something else. And if you truly where a good cook you would be interested in something different. I have always found the best cooks are always curious and looking for new ways to do things. Based on your comments you don’t seem to be this type of individual.
Taipei 101, the HSR, MRT etc are just high-tech baubles. Lipstick on a pig. Built by foreign contractors while the locals supplied the concrete and biandangs.
Don’t forget that those locals also provided the money to build them. Not to mention the arduous task of having them approved, regulated, etc… definitely not something a third world country could even dream of.
I agree with the OP about the food in Taiwan. By and large it’s bland rubbish, made with the cheapest ingredients by people who know little to nothing about cooking. I used to think it was ok until I traveled to other countries in Asia, and remembered what proper fresh food with fresh ingredients tasted like. When I think about how much fake junk you encounter in one Taiwan night-market, it’s baffling:
fake mayonnaise (orange sweet syrup) in hamburgers and sandwiches
fake wasabi (green spicy paste) on takoyaki balls
fake cream (white sugar paste) and cheap chocolate sauce on waffles.
those tall ice-cream cones made from sugary milk-favored ice
ice-coffee made from syrup and milk tea from milk-powder
Any fruit-based drink
The ridiculous thing is, when one stall actually cooks with a bit of care and thought, and makes something tasty they have customers lining up down the street once word of mouth spreads. Seems most vendors just think “who cares”, but then they’re right, the customers have the exact same “that’ll do” attitude; usually it’s about price, size and convenience rather than quality of the end product.
[quote=“djkonstable”]Italian food btw pushes the pasta, the taste of the pasta and feel of the pasta, the sauces help to support the pasta. In American Italian cooking the sauces dominate, the sauce, or sometimes “gravy” is dumped on top of some noodles. I don’t find it a lack of life in tracing culinary history. The Italians would not have had noodles without first discovering the Chinese. Go ahead look that up. Perhaps I am being anal but demanding more of myself and others around me is just the way I am. I also work as an artist painting pictures that I sell. I spend little time on TV or anything else but when I live in Taiwan I do find myself drinking more and putting shit on this forum. Which begs to question do many people hold themselves to high standards, does it matter? Why is there a food forum here? are they being anal? Well maybe just with the chicken butts.
I[/quote]
OP,
Some might say you’re anal, but I admire your passion and drive for excellence. However, living as such will be a tremendous uphill battle in Taiwan because society in general has that 差不多 or 可以用就好 attitude. Taiwan’s still a developing country and people would rather spend their limited resources on project #2 and get two usable products instead of perfecting project #1 and being left with only one great product. If you travel to countries worse off than Taiwan, this attitude is even more pronounced. Quantity is always more important than quality before a critical mass is achieved, and then the reserve becomes true.
In my experience, it’s too hard to persuade people to see things as you do. It’s much easier to just find the rare individual that shares your believes and train them even further. Also, I think you’ll find a lot more success in restaurants instead of roadside stands, but to work your way up there it might be more practical to take the passion down a notch while at the stands and then slowly ramping it up as you become more successful.
As a pro cook for more than a decade before I came here, I’d say your wife is RIGHT on the money, while you’re just wanking in the dark. There’s a LOT more to making a go of it than tossing a fucking pan, fer chrissakes! LISTEN to your wife. Its HER business, you said. Stop throwing your Jamie Oliver spanner in the works and let her get on with it.
And take a look at Maoman’s lengthy post in Taiwaneasia regarding foreigners and their restaurant aspersions. Even in Taipei your nonsense won’t fly unless you’re happy working for NT$30,000 a month in a back kitchen somewhere with a REAL restauranteur in charge. One who KNOWS what he’s doing.
15 billion dollar excellent piece of engineering and infrastructure that is run very efficiently. A class transport system all round and I have never ONCE had a delay. I use it all the time for work. The ticket price is still cheaper than a second class seat on a regular train in Europe. The Taichung and Hsinchu stations are well designed , now all we need are MRTs to connect them. The UK may get it’s first high speed line 10-20 years later and I guess it will be too expensive for the middle class to use.
Of course the Taipei MRT is also getting to world class status and is very clean and efficient and cheap too, again compare to the tube in the London. No comparison.
Sure it’s no paradise here but credit should be given where it is due.
[quote=“aphasiac”]I agree with the OP about the food in Taiwan. By and large it’s bland rubbish, made with the cheapest ingredients by people who know little to nothing about cooking. I used to think it was ok until I traveled to other countries in Asia, and remembered what proper fresh food with fresh ingredients tasted like. When I think about how much fake junk you encounter in one Taiwan night-market, it’s baffling:
fake mayonnaise (orange sweet syrup) in hamburgers and sandwiches
fake wasabi (green spicy paste) on takoyaki balls
fake cream (white sugar paste) and cheap chocolate sauce on waffles.
those tall ice-cream cones made from sugary milk-favored ice
ice-coffee made from syrup and milk tea from milk-powder
Any fruit-based drink
The ridiculous thing is, when one stall actually cooks with a bit of care and thought, and makes something tasty they have customers lining up down the street once word of mouth spreads. Seems most vendors just think “who cares”, but then they’re right, the customers have the exact same “that’ll do” attitude; usually it’s about price, size and convenience rather than quality of the end product.[/quote]
Woah there. There are actually a lot of great juice and coffee shops these days that serve good natural fresh food. Tea shops here can also be superb. Taiwan has the most unique appreciation of tea anywhere in the world! Fruit shops too. Also Chua bing places with fresh fruit on ice.
Compare to the canned fruit and sweetened drinks of South East Asia Taiwan is an excellent place to get fresh fruit and fresh natural drinks. Try getting fresh fruit in Japan or in Northern China. You don’t know how lucky you are in Taiwan.
Then there are the fresh soya milk and fresh tofu places popping up everywhere. All made on site.
Taiwan also has a vastly improved bakery sector that now surpasses what you will find in most places in Asia. Give it a bit of time and they will discover what fresh cream is!
You can’t expect the night market to be a bastion of healthy food, can you?
15 billion dollar excellent piece of engineering and infrastructure that is run very efficiently. A class transport system all round and I have never ONCE had a delay. I use it all the time for work. The ticket price is still cheaper than a second class seat on a regular train in Europe. The Taichung and Hsinchu stations are well designed , now all we need are MRTs to connect them. The UK may get it’s first high speed line 10-20 years later and I guess it will be too expensive for the middle class to use.
Of course the Taipei MRT is also getting to world class status and is very clean and efficient and cheap too, again compare to the tube in the London. No comparison.
Sure it’s no paradise here but credit should be given where it is due.[/quote]
Much as I dislike agreeing with anything Oirish, I have to agree on this one. The HSR is amazing! And CHEAP! And convenient! And clean! Monkey, I believe, is a Brit. When’s the last time YOU were on a Britland train, Monkey? For me, its been years and years – it cheaper to fly or even rent a car than to step on one of those filthy, out-of-date, running late-if-at-all monstrosities.
[quote=“sandman”]
And take a look at Maoman’s lengthy post in Taiwaneasia regarding foreigners and their restaurant aspersions. Even in Taipei your nonsense won’t fly unless you’re happy working for NT$30,000 a month in a back kitchen somewhere with a REAL restauranteur in charge. One who KNOWS what he’s doing.[/quote]
Do you have a link? The search function there isn’t bringing it up.
I find myself agreeing with the OP. The chabuduo-ism here is infuriating and he hit it on the head when he brought up painting and not using tape on things like light switches (which aren’t installed straight in the first place).
15 billion dollar excellent piece of engineering and infrastructure that is run very efficiently. A class transport system all round and I have never ONCE had a delay. I use it all the time for work. The ticket price is still cheaper than a second class seat on a regular train in Europe. The Taichung and Hsinchu stations are well designed , now all we need are MRTs to connect them. The UK may get it’s first high speed line 10-20 years later and I guess it will be too expensive for the middle class to use.
Of course the Taipei MRT is also getting to world class status and is very clean and efficient and cheap too, again compare to the tube in the London. No comparison.
Sure it’s no paradise here but credit should be given where it is due.[/quote]
Much as I dislike agreeing with anything Oirish, I have to agree on this one. The HSR is amazing! And CHEAP! And convenient! And clean! Monkey, I believe, is a Brit. When’s the last time YOU were on a Britland train, Monkey? For me, its been years and years – it cheaper to fly or even rent a car than to step on one of those filthy, out-of-date, running late-if-at-all monstrosities.[/quote]
Depends where you going, at what time and when you book it. I can get a return from Birmingham to London for £10 if I book in advance. That’s less than 500nt round trip. Can’t grumble about that. The local trains are a bit of a pain. Before 9:30 it’s £3.70 for a return from New Street to my station (about a 15 min journey one way). That’s about 180nt return. The trains are usually running late though, or get cancelled. But they temper it by not really having proper ticket barriers, so you don’t always have to pay for your journey. There are many many problems with the british train system, not least of which is that now we are so poor people are ripping wiring and metal from the tracks, leaving everything dangerous and broken.
Just checked, you can do London to Edinburgh for £37 if you book in advance. Less than 2000nt. That can’t be bad!
Yeah, I admit I’m well out of date on Brit trains. Last time I took one was Kings Cross to Waverly. One way. 135 quid. Heathrow to Edinburgh one way on the plane was 57 quid. Guess which one I chose on the way home? And that was 20 years ago. Enough to put anyone off their porridge!
