[quote=“Chris”]This is absurd. An innocent man is going to jail.
I hope he can appeal.
([color=#FF0000]And what the hell does Microsoft have to do with this case?[/color])[/quote]
I’d also like to know the answer to that one.
[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“Taigottawanna”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”]http://www.thewildeast.net/news/2011/02/defense-optimistic-in-scotsmans-hit-and-run-trial/
According to this source, the verdict was due today:[/quote]
http://news.msn.com.tw/news2090770.aspx
I’m reading through Google Translate:
It looks like he got 2 years 6 months for the vehicular homicide
and 6 months + 5,000,000 NT for Microsoft infringement.[/quote]
That seems right. Which, IMVHO from what we’ve heard of the case, is total BS. Unless there was evidence that we didn’t hear about on this thread and elsewhere.
What about the corrupt coppers, the doctored video footage, the lying KTV workers etc etc etc? What’s wrong with this picture?[/quote]
Just about every office in Taiwan uses unauthorized copies of Microsoft. Probably even the judge and prosecutor.
Exactly. 
Chris,
Reading through the news it appears he can appeal.
Unless there what we have been reading on here and in other places is a crock of shit, then this verdict is exactly as I expected it to be. 2 1/2 years for telling the truth and the real culprits go free. Taiwanese justice at it’s very best. :bravo:
Let’s hope his appeal goes well, although I don’t hold out much hope. An appeal will usually only serve to lower the severity of a sentence, not erase it. The judges and prosecutors certainly won’t want to lose their face, especially over a dirty little foreigner.
On the other hand, skipping the country isn’t that difficult, considering what is at stake 
Well, that’s bad news.
I don’t know Chinese, so the following questions are mostly out of curiosity (but note to mod(s), they pertain to the topic): Does anyone know if courts here routinely make transcripts of criminal trials? If not, do they electronically record the trials for possible transcription on request (i. e., for a fee)? And do they keep files of cases in the courthouse (or anywhere) and make them available for examination by members of the public?
Perhaps he is guilty as the court found him to be?
Personally I always found his account of why he did not even ask the KTV about the damage to the car (before trying to scrap it) very dubious. If my car had a smashed headlight and a bumper hanging off I’d be very curious and worried indeed. If he is guilty of the murder and subsequently trying to frame someone else then two years is not enough he should of got far more. Trying to frame another for a crime as serious as this is only what a pure scumbag of the lowest order would do. Perhaps some of us may try to avoid getting caught (pretty low in this case) but then trying to frame another is lower than low. That KTV driver was a young man getting paid a tiny wage .
So according to the guilty verdict
He hit and killed the sole bread winner of a family
He fled the scene not knowing if the man was dead or alive
He then tried to scrap the evidence (getting his own wife inolved)
He then tries to blame the crime on a very young man.
However, I agree that the microsoft case has got sweet f all to do with the hit and run case.
[quote=“fenlander”]Perhaps he is guilty as the court found him to be?
Personally I always found his account of why he did not even ask the KTV about the damage to the car (before trying to scrap it) very dubious. If my car had a smashed headlight and a bumper hanging off I’d be very curious and worried indeed. If he is guilty of the murder and subsequently trying to frame someone else then two years is not enough he should of got far more. Trying to frame another for a crime as serious as this is only what a pure scumbag of the lowest order would do. Perhaps some of us may try to avoid getting caught (pretty low in this case) but then trying to frame another is lower than low. That KTV driver was a young man getting paid a tiny wage .
So according to the guilty verdict
He hit and killed the sole bread winner of a family
He fled the scene not knowing if the man was dead or alive
He then tried to scrap the evidence (getting his own wife inolved)
He then tries to blame the crime on a very young man.
However, I agree that the microsoft case has got sweet f all to do with the hit and run case.[/quote]
His personal statement did strike me as quite self-serving and my BS detector got quite a workout from reading it.
I found it hard to believe the driver from the KTV, especially as described here, would have the guanxi to force the cops frame an innocent man.
If the trial did go as reported by Maoman and Trista from The Wild East, ie bullshit evidence like pictures of the wrong car, video supposedly showing Dean getting into the driver’s side when it was clearly the passenger side, etc., then perhaps we should get international human rights groups to look into it. This kind of verdict after a trial as described by the two accounts I read cannot be explained by incompetence.
I thought the illegal software issue was already resolved?
Here’s the brief from the Taipei Times this morning.
[quote]CRIME
Briton sentenced to jail
British national Zain Dean was sentenced to two years and six months in jail for his involvement in a fatal hit-and-run in Taipei last year. In its ruling, the Taipei District Court said Dean was sentenced for offenses against public safety, involuntary manslaughter and not stopping after an accident. Dean, 40, who has lived in Taiwan for 17 years, can appeal the ruling. The court said after drinking with friends in the early hours of March 25, Dean decided to drive home. On the way, he hit a scooter from behind, killing its driver, Huang Chiun-teh (黃俊德). Video footage from a security camera showed Dean’s black Mercedes hitting Huang from behind before fleeing the scene, the court said. Dean has denied involvement in the accident, saying he sat in the passenger seat while a pub worker drove him home.[/quote]
I’m assuming Dean will appeal, but is he free on bail while that happens?
There’s one thing I feel sure about: The system of justice here is seriously lacking. Whatever happened that night, I don’t think that man got a fair trial.
[quote=“Taipei Times”][color=#FF0000]The court said [/color]after drinking with friends in the early hours of March 25, [color=#FF0000]Dean decided to drive home[/color]. On the way, [color=#FF0000]he hit a scooter from behind, killing its driver[/color], Huang Chiun-teh (黃俊德). Video footage from a security camera showed Dean’s black Mercedes hitting Huang from behind before fleeing the scene,[color=#FF0000] the court said[/color].[/quote]How did the judge come to this conclusion? As far as I’ve read and heard, the only evidence in this case is that of Dean being helped into the passenger’s seat and his car leaving the KTV being driven by a KTV employee. There is no evidence to support that Dean drove the car and hit the scooter rider. It looks like the judge was under heavy pressure to render a token guilty verdict in order to avoid a public outcry and backlash over an acquittal. If he was guilty beyond doubt, the sentence should have been much much stiffer. Disappointed. 
2.5 years is what the prosecution asked for. That seems to be the norm here:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/taiwan-issues/2010/04/28/254191/Penalties-are.htm
[quote=“formosaobama”][quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“Taipei Times”][color=#FF0000]The court said [/color]after drinking with friends in the early hours of March 25, [color=#FF0000]Dean decided to drive home[/color]. On the way, [color=#FF0000]he hit a scooter from behind, killing its driver[/color], Huang Chiun-teh (黃俊德). Video footage from a security camera showed Dean’s black Mercedes hitting Huang from behind before fleeing the scene,[color=#FF0000] the court said[/color].[/quote]How did the judge come to this conclusion? As far as I’ve read and heard, the only evidence in this case is that of Dean being helped into the passenger’s seat and his car leaving the KTV being driven by a KTV employee. There is no evidence to support that Dean drove the car and hit the scooter rider. It looks like the judge was under heavy pressure to render a token guilty verdict in order to avoid a public outcry and backlash over an acquittal. If he was guilty beyond doubt, the sentence should have been much much stiffer. Disappointed. [/quote]2.5 years is what the prosecution asked for. That seems to be the norm here:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/taiwan-issues/2010/04/28/254191/Penalties-are.htm[/quote]
Thanks for that. I had thought the maximum penalty was harsher. Perhaps I just felt the penalty should be harsher if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yeah, I would have thought that killing someone while driving drunk was tantamount to vehicular homicide, and would be punished with life imprisonment or something like that.
I don’t for a moment believe that Dean is guilty. Video shows he got in on the passenger’s side.
[quote=“Chris”]Yeah, I would have thought that killing someone while driving drunk was tantamount to vehicular homicide, and would be punished with life imprisonment or something like that.
I don’t for a moment believe that Dean is guilty. Video shows he got in on the passenger’s side.[/quote]
That fact was never disputed. The case hinged on whether the KTV driver got out of the car before or after the accident. Zain Dean has always claimed he had no recollection of what happened. He assumed that without hard evidence to place him in the driver’s seat at the moment of the accident, he would get acquitted. It was a gamble and it didn’t pay off.
Interestingly, other Chinese reports said his “wife” was acquitted of her charge of attempting to dispose of the car.
I have no idea of whether he is innocent or not, and without seeing the evidence and investigating it carefully I wouldn’t guess, given the uncertain state of the justice system here. It’s sad for all involved.
One thing that has left me wondering-surely there should be enough video footage of the whole route to his home on random cameras. Therefore, if the actual crash is shown as per the quote above, it is extremely likely that other things such as the driver of the car at different times, or the KTV worker getting out of the car, or the parking of the car at Mr Dean’s home, could be found.
I have no idea of whether he is innocent or not, and without seeing the evidence and investigating it carefully I wouldn’t guess, given the uncertain state of the justice system here. It’s sad for all involved.
One thing that has left me wondering-surely there should be enough video footage of the whole route to his home on random cameras. Therefore, if the actual crash is shown as per the quote above, it is extremely likely that other things such as the driver of the car at different times, or the KTV worker getting out of the car, or the parking of the car at Mr Dean’s home, could be found.[/quote]
As has been brought up numerous times, and as is mentioned in the trial accounts, a large number of the cameras at intersections enroute had their data deleted for the time frames in question.
The driver was not identifiable in the footage of the actual collision.
Again, the prosecution was unable to provide any evidence whatsoever to prove that ZD was ever at the wheel after leaving the KTV.
[quote=“the chief”] . . . a large number of the cameras at intersections enroute had their data deleted for the time frames in question.[/quote] I don’t know much about these kinds of cameras or the details of how they are used. Was the deletion a routine, ordinary sort of thing?
[quote=“The Chief”]The driver was not identifiable in the footage of the actual collision.
Again, the prosecution was unable to provide any evidence whatsoever to prove that ZD was ever at the wheel after leaving the KTV.[/quote]
What? Are you some wide-eyed, fresh off the boat unshaven backpacker who’s just arrived from somewhere like, I dunno, that Cold North Donimion? What the hell does all this counter evidence, which is interfering with a perfectly squared-away pre- decided verdict have to do with anything? This is Taiwan.
Hell, it’s common knowledge in Taiwanese circles that the bars and clubs on Linzen N. Road accept that they have to pay bribes to the police. What weight did this have on the case?
Anyone who has ever been dragged through the courts as a foreigner will know what it feels like to be singled out and blamed. As a foreigner, YOU are wrong, and I am drawing from experience.
I once moved some idiot’s scooter, so I could move my bike out. He saw me and attacked me - his wife joined in and slapped me with a slipper. During the process, filmed on CCTV, I held the guys arms to stop him from hitting me. Not once did I hit back - just kind of wrestled. I didn’t sue him, as I couldn’t be bothered. He sued me later though, for assault, claiming he has marks on his arms from the scuffle.
The judge said it was an objective fact that he got injured, and that I was responsible. Instead of using self-defence, I had the option to run away and avoid further conflict. I was taller and heavier than him, so that also added to the fact that it was my fault. I held his arms on purpose.
Yep guys, I am now a criminal - 20 days in jail or 20 thousand NT fine and a criminal record for assault, even though it is clear that he instigated the assault.
Be careful lads and lassies, or I’ll smack your head in.
I am also going through another case in which I have been accused of driving away from an accident, even though I got out of my vehicle and spoke to the driver ( a government employee, by the way) who had no interest in co-operating. There was no accident - we both decided at the scene that there was no accident and no damage to any vehicle, just a close call - he didn’t even bother to get out of his truck. Now I’m in the shit again for driving away from an accident and causing a public menace.
By the way, that guy - the taxi driver who knocked down and killed that high school student a few weeks back, and injured another - you know, the one who then drove away at high speed whom the police later traced and found drunk at his house. You know - that case. The taxi driver case which has also been all over the news in recent weeks with his face all over the media. You don’t know?
Yeah - that’s right, no one knows what I am talking about. The above happened about 6 weeks ago and I saw a 30 second snippet on the news here in Taiwan. The student was killed and his friend was seriously injured. Classic Taiwan style hit-and-run ensued, but I have not heard anything further about this case. I made a point of remembering it to see how it would compare against this case, both in terms of the trial and with media coverage. Foreigners make a far more interesting news target. Even if guilty, ZD in no way deserves to be treated by the press in this way - it’s disgusting.
Now let it be known that I have some reservations about ZD’s story - something does not smell right, but even so, I believe that he wasn’t the driver. The judge seems to have pulled his own evidence out of a hat while disregarding the real material evidence presented as a defence in court.
And this Microsoft bollocks? I think I’ll spend the day pirating software.
[quote=“Charlie Jack”]Well, that’s bad news.
I don’t know Chinese, so the following questions are mostly out of curiosity (but note to mod(s), they pertain to the topic): Does anyone know if courts here routinely make transcripts of criminal trials? If not, do they electronically record the trials for possible transcription on request (i. e., for a fee)? And do they keep files of cases in the courthouse (or anywhere) and make them available for examination by members of the public?[/quote]
Yes there is a transcript. The proceedings are recorded electronically. They are not available to members of the public, but they are available to the defendant and his lawyer. The defendant can release them to members of the public.
I don’t think you can get a transcript of the recorded proceedings. They can be reviewed on appeal–i.e. played for the lawyer to review and played in court if there are questions about the transcripts (bilu). This comes up more for transcripts of pre-trial police and prosecutor questioning though.
The do keep files of the case in the courthouse. Again the defendant and his lawyer can access these although there are limitations on what materials can be copied and the other parties may have moved to keep some materials out of the general file.
[quote=“Super Hans”][quote=“The Chief”]The driver was not identifiable in the footage of the actual collision.
Again, the prosecution was unable to provide any evidence whatsoever to prove that ZD was ever at the wheel after leaving the KTV.[/quote]
What? Are you some wide-eyed, fresh off the boat unshaven backpacker who’s just arrived from somewhere like, I dunno, that Cold North Donimion? What the hell does all this counter evidence, which is interfering with a perfectly squared-away pre- decided verdict have to do with anything? This is Taiwan.
Anyone who has ever been dragged through the courts as a foreigner will know what it feels like to be singled out and blamed. As a foreigner, YOU are wrong, and I am drawing from experience.
I .[/quote]
In my experience the opposite was true. I went up against the word of two Taiwanese police officers and won. I am white and a westerner. I had no help from the foreign community and at the time could not afford a lawyer so had to defend myself. I won the case.