A Personal Statement from Zain Dean

Discussion Open Forum
41

I don’t know if he did it or not. It’s a bit convenient if you ask me that he was conscious when he got in the car and then again a few blocks from his house but not when his car smashed into a motorcyclist and killed him. Then again if he knew that his car was in that sort of accident he likely would have tried to destroy or hide the evidence immediately rather than leave his car sitting around as long as he did.

He is a foriegner so I have an extra interest in seeing him treated fairly. If he is actually innocent and really railroaded on this I imagine that there are forumosans that could and would put up quite a stink about it. Enough to influence the kind of judgement that is made perhaps and if he is found guilty the kind of treatment he recieves. I don’t think that is totally unrealistic. Taiwanese don’t like to look bad in the foriegn community and if they make prejudicial judgemnets here we will definitely scream bloody murder about it. The newspapers know we will and so as to not look bad will make a little extra effort to provide a complete and balanced assesment. That’s a little “power” we have. We can help a bit to see to it that Dean is treated fairly.

Then again if he is guilty I would rather that the foriegn community didn’t appear to be biased in it’s support of an guilty person.

That’s all my interest is in this really. I certainly have no interest in seeing him “punished” as I don’t believe in punishment. Even if he is guilty I would hope that people remain concerned that he isn’t treated too harshly.

42

Again, whatever. Chap (who, if the assessment of reputable forumosans is to be believed) made a mistake, or didn’t. Who can stand amongst us and proclaim from their holier-than-thou perch that they have never done something silly, on impulse, that may have left them or others scarred for life? Sorry, but this vulture mentality sickens me.

OK, there is a family that is mourning a death. There is also a man whose life has been well and truly ruined by something he did/didn’t do. Even if he’s guilty, where’s the damn compassion? You don’t think he’s suffering? Just want to castrate and lynch him? I despair for humanity sometimes.

43

[quote=“jimipresley”]Again, whatever. Chap (who, if the assessment of reputable forumosans is to be believed) made a mistake, or didn’t. Who can stand amongst us and proclaim from their holier-than-thou perch that they have never done something silly, on impulse, that may have left them or others scarred for life? Sorry, but this vulture mentality sickens me.

OK, there is a family that is mourning a death. There is also a man whose life has been well and truly ruined by something he did/didn’t do. Even if he’s guilty, where’s the damn compassion? You don’t think he’s suffering? Just want to castrate and lynch him? I despair for humanity sometimes.[/quote]
Well said. :bravo:

44

I have more compassion for him than you can imagine. That’s my bet. But this thing went public and it is now important that we appear impartial. Once it is determined what actually happened I hope that we can advocate for a wise and balanced response that focuses on compensating the surving victims and trying to create a more aware society where further such instances become less likely. That’s what I’m interested in pursuing. I’ll argue here against the idea of punishment no matter what is discovered.

Btw, Dean’s story isn’t entirely implausible IMHO. He got dragged out in the middle of the night, tired and bored likely, and more or less forced to drink way too much. You could definitely black out in that circumstance.

45

[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“jimipresley”]Again, whatever. Chap (who, if the assessment of reputable forumosans is to be believed) made a mistake, or didn’t. Who can stand amongst us and proclaim from their holier-than-thou perch that they have never done something silly, on impulse, that may have left them or others scarred for life? Sorry, but this vulture mentality sickens me.

OK, there is a family that is mourning a death. There is also a man whose life has been well and truly ruined by something he did/didn’t do. Even if he’s guilty, where’s the damn compassion? You don’t think he’s suffering? Just want to castrate and lynch him? I despair for humanity sometimes.[/quote]
Well said. :bravo:[/quote]

Jimi, if what happened as the prosecution tells it that is a serious crime. In fact there was a crime committed as somebody drove off that night leaving the victim to die on the road. The case is all about who was responsible. I don’t get your attitude myself.

As for the statement, it’s certainly put doubts in my mind and we are well aware of the shortcomings of the police and judicial system (I’m speaking as somebody who has had minor contact with it personally), I’m sure everybody here hopes that video evidence can be found so that the innocent will prevail.

46

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Are you sure this is the right thing to do?

Forget a bunch of muggins on a webpage, your real battle is in a court of law!

HG[/quote]

Yes, your real battle is in the court; good luck.

Well said. :bravo:[/quote]
:bravo: :bravo:

47

I’m also hoping the video evidence will be found, but I doubt it. I agree with this paragraph of yours, but in my mind there should at least be one other suspect, i.e. the KTV driver, as I don’t feel there’s evidence from an unbiased source that proves the bugger didn’t drive the car kill the scooter driver and drop off ZD. And let’s face it, anyone who has spent any amount of time in Taiwan will know that the number one modus operandi of all but a miniscule few locals when involved in an accident is to drive off. No one even stops to help. The only time I have ever seen anyone stop is when an accident isn’t fatal/serious, and the other driver is there with cel phone ready and both parties are forced to call the cops to mediate.

From what I’ve personally experienced in Taiwan, I’m inclined to believe (unless presented with 100% unbiased video evidence) that that was exactly the case.

Which is true of everyone, including the cops, the KTV Laoban, the family of the motorist killed, the Media and everyone up in arms about this. The only person who really knows anything is the person who was driving the car when the accident occurred. The trick is going to be how it is “proven” who the driver was.

What I’d like to know is what happened to the KTV driver. Does he still work there? Or has he conveniently disappeared?

48

which could be anyone…I am all for extending my compassion to the KTV guy who has his life ruined if he is still working there and is accused of killing someone while driving a drunk guy home, and his life is ruined if he has to disappear conveniently too. He needs our support, because each one of us have scarred someone for life.

OK, a family is mourning a death, but for humanity’s sake we should not condemn Mr. Dean for getting soooo drunk that he could not say ‘Taxi’ and for being irresponsible enough to take the wheel from the KTV driver coz he did not want to tell a stranger about his whereabouts. Not to mention getting up in the middle of the night to drive to a KTV for the sole purpose of drinking ahem discussing business. Oh these horrible local businessmen, getting others drunk!! Those horrible KTV workers, who can’t drive a Merc. in the middle of the night. The horrid police that blames the merc owner. And of course the lynching intranets mob with their torches ablaze ready to castrate a guy who had a smashed up car and decided not to find out why?

We should stop being vultures and stop pointing fingers at the KTV guy or the merc owner. The dead man’s gone man!! Why inconvenience the ones who survived?

Yes, humanity has gone to the dogs. A man’s life is ruined, maybe a family too but for sure it is not Mr. Dean’s.

49

Many people feel deep sympathy for the victim of a crime, especially when the crime results in the victim’s death. That’s normal, natural, and understandable. This is often coupled with anger and a desire for the wrongdoer to be punished. That, too, is normal, natural, and understandable.

There is a tendency in such situations for people channel this anger toward whomever the government presents to the public as the accused. And that’s normal, natural, and understandable, but if it’s combined with government officials’ strong desire to be seen as effective against crime, it can result in an erroneous conviction and produce a second, indirect victim of the crime.

Here’s an instance of what I suspect is an example of the above, from Friday’s Taipei Times:

[quote]. . . the case of a soldier executed for the murder and rape of a five-year old girl.

Chiang Kuo-ching (江國慶), who was serving in the air force at the time, was found guilty after a month-long investigation and sentenced to death in 1996 after a girl, surnamed Hsieh, was found dead at an air force base in Taipei City.

. . . the Control Yuan . . . suggested that the crime was committed by a former airman surnamed Hsu and said they suspected Hsu was also involved in another unsolved case in December the same year when another five-year girl, surnamed Lin, was found impaled with a bamboo spear.

Hsu has been in jail since 2003 after being convicted for the kidnap and sexual abuse of two girls while on parole in 2001, after a 1997 sentence for raping a six-year-old girl was commuted.

“We learned from an assessment report conducted by the Ministry of Justice’s Investigation Bureau that the DNA of a pubic hair found on the girl’s right thigh did not match that of Chiang,” [Deputy Minister of National Defense Andrew] Yang said.

“The military made no mention of this justice ministry report at the time,” Yang said.

The Control Yuan report said that while being questioned about the attack on Lin, Hsu confessed to the crime against Hsieh two months before Chiang was convicted, giving a clear account of the girl’s clothing and details of the crime.

Upon receiving the allegations that Hsu may have been involved in the case, the military had Hsu undergo a psychiatric examination before concluding that he was mentally retarded.[/quote]

taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003472934

The power of the State, compared to that of the individual, is sometimes dreadful, in the older sense of the word. By that I mean, simply, that it sometimes inspires great fear. And if it’s not carefully used, then as to a lone individual it’s not substantially different from the power of brutal tyrant, or of one of those tornadoes we were talking about in another thread.

50

I don’t think I have, and I think a minority of people have been unfortunate enough to make decisions that lead to such dramatic outcomes. I think jimi’s take is more accurate when he says that we probably all have done things that could have scarred others badly. I know I have.

[quote] I despair for humanity sometimes.[/quote]Sometimes… Lucky you. It’s a pretty steady frame of mind for me. I actually have to make a conscious effort to leave my work at work when I come home every night. My bread and butter takes me deep into the ugliness of humankind on a daily basis. :2cents:

51

Have any of the parties agreed to a lie detector test?

The driver or the main suspect in the case? After all someone is lying here. I’d be keen to do one if I was Dean. The media already thinks he is guilty and if he is innocent ? Yes lie detectors are not fool proof but they are pretty darn accurate these days. He should offer to do one. Then ask the KTV driver if he is also willing? If they both agree then do it.

If the KTV driver refused and Dean says he is willing then it will look good on the part of Dean. He can say he is only willing to do one if the KTV driver is willing too. I bet the KTV driver will refuse. :wink: Dean’s back is up against the wall so it would be a great strategy. Of course if Dean is really guilty then it would not be such a great idea as those things are hard to fool.

I was falsely accused in Taiwan of robbing my boss’s secretary of my own salary lol I went to the cops and offered to do a lie detector test if the accuser did one too. They refused and withdrew all charges while apologizing for getting emotional and making false accusations :thumbsup:

(off topic) I heard they are developing those new brain scan detector lie tests and those will be almost 100% accurate.

52

[quote=“fenlander”]Have any of the parties agreed to a lie detector test?
(off topic) I heard they are developing those new brain scan detector lie tests and those will be almost 100% accurate.[/quote]

As to my knowledge, the lie detector test can only be taken as a reference (correct me, if I am wrong), not treated as an evidence in a trial here. After all, some people can easily pass that test.

As to your story, it sounds like just an allegation in the employment dispute to me as I don’t see any physical evidence to file a case in the court.

53

[quote=“I am a City Girl”][quote=“fenlander”]Have any of the parties agreed to a lie detector test?
(off topic) I heard they are developing those new brain scan detector lie tests and those will be almost 100% accurate.[/quote]

As to my knowledge, the lie detector test can only be taken as a reference (correct me, if I am wrong), not treated as an evidence in a trial here. After all, some people can easily pass that test.

As to your story, it sounds like just an allegation in the employment dispute to me as I don’t see any physical evidence to file a case in the court.[/quote]
We will have to find out from a Taiwan lawyer. I had an argument with a secretary of my past employer at the time she was handing over the envelope with my pay. The argument was not related to the pay. Anyway I did not snatch the envelope or anything like that but in the heat of the moment forgot to sign for the pay. She then went to the cops and claimed I had robbed my pay envelope without signing. I told the cops what happened and they said they would only take action if a lie detector test was taken! I agreed and she backed out and gave me all these apologies about having personal problems blah blah blah. Anyway no charges were pressed against her for making a false accusation. That is exactly to a tee what happened.There was no previous relationship or whatever. Her boss later said at the time of the argument I had made her lose face so she was angry. Perhps the police were very smart in this case and knew she was lying and have used this way before to scare off false accusers. That experience put the fear of God into me about 30 year old Taiwanese secretaries lol

So going on that I thought a lie detector might have some meaning in Taiwan. perhaps not. Anyway would it not give him more power or credence in front of the media if he agreed to take one and passed while the driver refuses? Just an idea.

54

I don’t think lie detector tests are that great - I beat them three out of four times in university when I was a guinea pig for hypnosis experiments. I found out two things: I’m not not very susceptible to hypnosis; and lie detectors are extremely fallible. Either that, or I really did kill John F. Kennedy. :laughing:

55

You liar lol :liar:

Interesting that you beat them. I saw on discovery they have a new one coming out that uses brain scanning technology. Apparently one part of the brain lights up or doesn’t light up when you lie. At first I was against these machines but now after this case I am starting to be persuaded. Obviously listening to your account of beating the lie detector they are not good enough yet. However if they become far more accurate that coupled with DNA technology and cameras will likely result in less false convictions.

By the way how did you do it? :pray:

56

I believe lie detecting instruments measure physiological changes in someone’s breathing rate, pulse, blood pressure, and perspiration level. When people lie, these measurements tend to rise. So when you know you are just testing the machine and lying for the sake of testing the machine, the physiological changes are bound to be a lot less significant. In other words, without the stress associated with REALLY not wanting to be caught lying, the machine is surely a lot easier to fool. :2cents:

Then again, there are probably ways to set up a good interrogation that would purposely freak out the subject. I’d be interested to know what lie you had to say while you fooled the test. :smiley:

57

That’s true.
But I’d also say that though I noticed Mr. Dean has a Taiwanese lawyer to defend his criminal charge on this case, he should try to prevent any “surprise” in the court during the trial, make sure his lawyer knows everything in details.
( I am saying the surprise here, I am actually referring to his first appearance in the court last week; that is something that didn’t make him look any good either in the court or under the camera when he’s found out having two different names on different papers.)

58

Feel sorry for the family of course, but what part of “pleading not guilty” is it that they don’t get? And the journalists don’t seem to understand either. They keep talking about Dean’s bad “attitude”, but all they appear to mean by this is not admitting guilt.

This other passport in the name of 柯瑞明 is odd too. It’s supposed to be an ROC passport then?

59

I totally agree with this sentiment. If you had your attorney review and approve this you should strongly consider finding a new attorney ASAP. If you didn’t run this by your attorney you are nuts.

60

Well, it was very interesting to read and best of luck to Mr. Dean, however I was wondering also why the other side is given so much material to prepare their legal attack in court.