[quote]1. How do we bring American military engagement in Iraq to a responsible end?
There is no military solution to the problems faced in Iraq: the real progress that can be made requires diplomatic, political, and economic means. We must stop counter-productive military operations by U.S. occupation forces and end our military presence in Iraq.
2. How do we prevent a repeat of the mistakes we’ve made?
The breakdown of checks and balances in our government led to bad decision-making which damaged America’s national security. Ending this war and preventing future situations like it requires that we restore these Constitutional checks and balances and fix the ways in which our governmental, military, and civil institutions have failed us.
[/quote]
This is a plan written by 10 Democrats running for House seats. Kind of a take back America part 2. It’s a big mess and I don’t think it will get better until the US leaves.
In the appendix, they have a list of bills that have been introduced so far to try to repair the damage caused by the Neobushmen. Most are in committee.
[quote]H.R. 3797 New Diplomatic Offensive for Iraq Act
H.R. 2265 Responsibility to Iraqi Refugees Act of 2007
H.R. 3674 Iraqi Refugee and Internally Displaced Persons Humanitarian Assistance,
Resettlement, and Security Act of 2007
H.R. 3045 Presidential Signing Statements Act of 2007
H.R. 1416 Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007
S. 139 Foreign Surveillance Expedited Review Act
H.R. 4102 Stop Outsourcing Security Act
H.R. 400 War Profiteering Prevention Act of 2007 Passed in the House 375 Ayes, 3 Nays, 53 Present/Not Voting.
H.R. 1352 Torture Outsourcing Prevention Act
H.R. 2740 Transparency and Accountability in Security Contracting Act of 2007 Passed in the House 389 Ayes, 30 Nays, 13 Present/Not Voting
H.R. 2247 Montgomery GI Bill for Life Act of 2007
H.R. 2874 Veterans’ Health Care Improvement Act of 2007 Passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote.
H.R. 2702 Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2007
S. 2332 Media Ownership Act of 2007
H.R. 2809 New Apollo Energy Act of 2007[/quote]
I think all three candidates for president have pretty much the same plan. Hope it gets better. That’s their plan.
“Ending the war” is the final objective of every war that has occured. War is but a means to an end. How do you end a war? You simply leave. (actually, that wouldn’t end the war in Iraq, but at least it’d be a national war instead of an international one).
How do you end a war right? You find out what has to be done in order to make the country right, and do it. That may or may not be more war. Excluding it on beforehand means you’re not looking for a solution.
So that up there, that’s just smooth political talk.
[quote=“Ah Q”]“Ending the war” is the final objective of every war that has occured. War is but a means to an end. How do you end a war? You simply leave. (actually, that wouldn’t end the war in Iraq, but at least it’d be a national war instead of an international one).
How do you end a war right? You find out what has to be done in order to make the country right, and do it. That may or may not be more war. Excluding it on beforehand means you’re not looking for a solution.
So that up there, that’s just smooth political talk.[/quote]
You’re talking a lot, but you’re not saying anything. Is that what you mean by political talk?
I tried to read how, but it all turned into a daymare of nightish proportions.
For example: “The American public must also re-engage in the discussions and decision-making about how to proceed.”
What does this empty vessel of a statement possibly even hope to imply?
Jargon-filled sociologist claptrap!
Poorly written, or perhaps edited, at that!
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]I tried to read how, but it all turned into a daymare of nightish proportions.
For example: “The American public must also re-engage in the discussions and decision-making about how to proceed.”
What does this empty vessel of a statement possibly even hope to imply?
Jargon-filled sociologist claptrap!
Poorly written, or perhaps edited, at that![/quote]
As Cheney would say, “So?”
Right now we have the people say get out. Hillary and Barak say get out responsibly. McCain says stay. Nobody cares what the people want in this fine democracy.
I don’t think you can get out responsibly without getting out. The Iraq people are screwed no matter what we do.
Right now we have the people say get out. Hillary and Barak say get out responsibly. McCain says stay. Nobody cares what the people want in this fine democracy.
I don’t think you can get out responsibly without getting out. The Iraq people are screwed no matter what we do.[/quote]
What “the people” want is all fine and well if it is national issues that are concerned - but we’re talking about the wellbeing of a state that “the people” don’t care a rat’s ass about because neither their family nor their friends live there. “The people” would prefer the US spent its money on things that affect them, and perhaps rightfully so. However these are not the people that you can trust your foreign affairs to 100%. The Iraqi people are screwed but to what degree? There’s plenty that can be done to decide that.
[quote=“Ah Q”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]
As Cheney would say, “So?”
Right now we have the people say get out. Hillary and Barak say get out responsibly. McCain says stay. Nobody cares what the people want in this fine democracy.
I don’t think you can get out responsibly without getting out. The Iraq people are screwed no matter what we do.[/quote]
What “the people” want is all fine and well if it is national issues that are concerned - but we’re talking about the wellbeing of a state that “the people” don’t care a rat’s ass about because neither their family nor their friends live there. “The people” would prefer the US spent its money on things that affect them, and perhaps rightfully so. However these are not the people that you can trust your foreign affairs to 100%. The Iraqi people are screwed but to what degree? There’s plenty that can be done to decide that.[/quote]
Now we have foreign affairs by Halliburton and Chevron. I feel distrustful.
Typical liberals, wanting to throw in the towel right on the verge of victory.
Don’t you realize that this week witnessed a defining moment in the war, as the highly-trained and patriotic Iraq Armed Forces swept over a bunch of evil Iranian-backed militias to liberate the city of Basra?
What? You say the attack totally bogged down, there were massive desertions and refusals to fight fellow Shiites, the US and Brits had to be called in to pull their asses out of the fire, and finally both sides had to go to a sitdown in Qom under the auspices of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who sat them down around a table and told them to (in the words of John McCain) “cut out the bullshit.”
Oh, and Maliki responded by purging the Iraqi Army and enlisting units of the Badr Brigades (formerly under command of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard) directly into the armed forces, essentially further turning it into a ISCI/Dawa militia, extremely pissing off the Sunni Awakening , whom he’d been telling over and over that there was no room for them in the security services- budget constraints, and all that.
[quote]So, I was at a great Center for American Progress panel yesterday with journalists Nir Rosen and Michael Ware. They have been in Iraq for most of the last five years and get the perspective on the ground the we don’t usually hear about here. Ware said something that just totally blew my mind.
The Badr Organization is the military arm of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq (ISCI previously known as SCIRI). Now ISCI is closely aligned with Maliki government and is arguably the most significant player in the current central government. In fact significant elements of the Badr Organization have been incorporated into the Iraqi Security Forces.
Now, here is where things start to break down. The Badr Organization (Originally called the Badr Brigades) was originally formed by Iran. But according to Ware many of its members were considered to be part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. And many of them are now considered to be retirees of the IRGC. Which means…wait for it… wait for it…
They still get pensions from the IRGC!! But it gets better. The Bush Administration has classified the IRGC as a terrorist organization!!
So, just so that we’re clear on this. We are building an army full of people who are still getting pension payments from an organization that the U.S. has designated a terrorist organization. [/quote]
[quote=“MikeN”]Typical liberals, wanting to throw in the towel right on the verge of victory.
Don’t you realize that this week witnessed a defining moment in the war, as the highly-trained and patriotic Iraq Armed Forces swept over a bunch of evil Iranian-backed militias to liberate the city of Basra?
What? You say the attack totally bogged down, there were massive desertions and refusals to fight fellow Shiites, the US and Brits had to be called in to pull their asses out of the fire, and finally both sides had to go to a sitdown in Qom under the auspices of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who sat them down around a table and told them to (in the words of John McCain) “cut out the bullshit.”
Oh, and Maliki responded by purging the Iraqi Army and enlisting units of the Badr Brigades (formerly under command of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard) directly into the armed forces, essentially further turning it into a ISCI/Dawa militia, extremely pissing off the Sunni Awakening , whom he’d been telling over and over that there was no room for them in the security services- budget constraints, and all that.
Progress![/quote]
Is Fred still in hid- … I mean hiatus?
We seriously could need someone explaining how the above exactly is a good thing, couldn’t we … and how the Bush administration masterfully masterminded this tremendously positive turn of events.
But alas, Schroeder is his modus operandi as always. Bugging out when the going gets rough.
I think you guys is overlooking a few things here.Who really orchestrated this war and for what reason? I’ll give you a hint… The same enlightened ones who orchestrated the American Revolutionary War and every single war following. Do your homework and open your eyes.
