A sales/marketing conundrum

Exactly. I would phrase it a bit differently to say that there’s no point in marketing if you don’t have the infrastructure to support the service you’re providing.

Let’s say you run a successful marketing campaign and you get inundated with phone calls from potential customers (students). What do you suppose their first question is going to be? “Where’s your school?” sound about right? How long do you think they’ll stick around if your reply is that you’re going to rent some space but don’t know just where yet? Also, how will you get licensed for what is apparently an ad hoc school?

Another option may be to consult for companies interested in teaching their employees English. I’m not familiar with the EFL literature on teaching business English, but I suspect that many EFL students lack the foundation necessary to absorb much of the curriculum. If you could apply your teaching methods to that aspect of EFL, you may be able to diversify your clientele base.

How about taking the risk out?
Find a company that has gone bust in a good location
Approach their landlord and ask if you can take over the lease for 3- 6 months - no renovation, no cost for them
Get 2nd hand desks or ideally keep the ones from the bankrupt firm
Get a local number for Skype and forward to your cell phone so you look legit
Advertise
Get bums on seats
Deliver

Very little at risk and potential huge upside - to fund your own premises and doing it properly

If the landlord is difficult suggest a 3-6 month lease with an option to extend at current rent +5%

Worth a try?

It seems to me there’s a great deal at risk to running an illegal business, not the least of which is getting deported and blacklisted.

I’ve been following this for awhile and I’d like to add my idea for a 3rd way.

You should have your APRC or be able to get it by now, so rent a suitable space(office and classroom) and hire a secretary to take care of things. A good secretary, while rare, is a definite help and possible bargain if she keeps you focused.

I think after 3-6 months of that you might have more respect for what goes into marketing in Taiwan and also have a better idea if you want to go through with this, go farther in or not do it at all your way.

You also need to soft sell yourself at every possible opportunity with business cards and trials/consultations.

Best of luck

What are the marketers going to market? A paper course? It’s been done. What is it that you are actually selling, both tangibly and intangibly? I still don’t really understand. Can you tell me in under ten words? What, how, and why?

‘Really good teacher. How do I convince the punters?’

As far as I can tell that’s Loretta’s problem in under ten words. A very tricky nut to crack.

But he’s done that, to a certain extent.

People here are just suggesting different and slightly dodgy delivery methods.

He hasn’t really convinced the punters because he’s not making as much money as he thinks he’s capable of making. I don’t think he’s developed some ground breaking teaching method, although if he has I guess he’s not going to publicise it online. I think he’s just an experienced teacher with backing from the MOE which looks like it could be marketable.

You’re right though bc. A mission statement from Loretta would help a lot to clarify in our minds what he’s after, and perhaps in his mind too. Remember that the salespeople are going to have to sell Loretta in pretty much the first 30 seconds, they’ll need a hard-hitting, snappy summary of what makes Loretta different.

That’s kind of my point. Edjukate me, without a 68 paragraph Loretta-post. Your elevator pitch, as it were. Brevity is next to cleanliness, or something.

Sell it to us baby!

I’m worth NT$300 because __ _______ ________ ________ ________ __ ___________ ______ ________ _____________.

Honestly, Loretta, I don’t get it. Yes, I KNOW that YOU think you have some kind of great thing for sale. And maybe you do indeed. The problem that I see is that you are trying to sell something “value-added” when the punters simply don’t see any value added at all. To them you’re just another English teacher touting the same-old, same-old with maybe some fancy coloured cellophane wrapper on the top. True, most of the other people selling this stuff wear suits and ties during their pitches, and probably have shorter hair, but really, they do that because it WORKS! Aren’t you struggling simply because you refuse to toe the accepted “businessman” line? Forgive me if I’m wrong.

As someone else posted, it sounds like a lot of the success you have in the classroom has much to do with your personality and sure, you could create Little Lorettas but that would be another investment of time.

I like the idea of offering incentives to your current or past students for telling their friends about you. I wouldn’t make it a cash incentive and don’t even mention MLM (you’ll just be asking for trouble). Instead, credit for one class per enrolled and paid up referral.

Have you considered offering a free class? It should only be available to new students. Students (parents in my case) will either love you or hate you. Those who love you will tell their friends.

How about asking your students (past and present) to do some marketing for you? Many people have blogs; ask them to blog about what they’ve learned from you, what they like best about your methods, your teaching style, etc. Some of my students are/have been the result of a parent blogging about one of my classes.

Another thing that has worked really well for me has been to hire an ‘assistant’. She really likes what I’m teaching and how I teach. She likes the curriculum so much she’d be teaching it herself if she felt confident enough in her English ability, and I think she’d be better at it :laughing: She is really good at selling me and selling my program because she really believes in it. My point–find a student who has done well in your classes, knows why he/she has done well in your classes and what is unique about your classroom, and compensation for promoting you and your classes.

Here’s something else I’ve been meaning to try–Bring a Friend Day! Offer one day or one week when currently enrolled students can bring a friend to class. You can promote this with postcards, social networks, Facebook fanpage, etc.

How about joining the Parent Pack (asiababy posted about this)? I’d see if she can put your information only in her orders (she sends out hundreds of boxes each month), not all the Parent Packs that are requested via the web. Her customers are probably all professionals who would be interested in adult classes.

Lots of really good stuff here, thanks to all of you. But I’ll start by calling Sandman a retard for this:

Dude, I have never met anyone who obsesses about appearances as much as you do. Every time I see you you need to say something about my shoes, shirt or hair. Other than wankers like Wall St, who don’t pay enough to take any notice of, nobody else cares about this sort of stuff.

My lunchtime class yesterday was with a government guy who wrtes the regulations the rest of us bitch about. He gets courtesy visits from presidents of major multi-nationals and his office is bigger than my apartment, but he doesn’t give a toss whether I wear a suit and tie or not and never quibbled about the fee I asked for.

After that class I went to see a high school that had asked for a consultation. They’re looking for a way to spend the budget they have allocated for new and creative stuff. As usual, it took over an hour to make the sale. They made a fairly attractive offer, one which wouldn’t have lowered my average hourly rate, but I’m doing quite well at the moment so I held out for an additional 50%. There were some consultations and then the boss - who incidentally walks around in a polo shirt - shook my hand and we had a deal.

You are forgiven for not noticing, but I CAN MAKE THE SALE. People buy what I’m offering, but only when they meet me personally. One of the problems I am struggling with is getting someone else to do the sales for me. Professionals tend to not listen, and I don’t think I can train a newbie to do sales in a language I don’t speak. I can’t seem to find a way around that.

Braxtonhicks’ idea about using an ex-student is a good one. Obviously I’m unlikely to tempt the executive-level guys away from their careers, and I’m really dubious about using my other group - university-age kids. But I’m planning to give it a go, and experiment with a slight variation on this: the SME Centre of the ECCT runs an internship program which makes it possible to reach large numbers of young people who want part-time work and experience. I’m hoping to find a few good ones to take through a ‘free English course’ plus training in internet marketing etc. (I can trade this with a friend who has specialities that complement mine.) Hopefully I can find one or two who will fulfil the assistant role in a few months. But all the same:

Human resources are the key, and I’m still struggling to believe that I’ll ever find anyone that has the skills to make the sale.

I have to run. Class time. More later. In the meantime, more thoughts on this, please.[quote=“Gao Bohan”][quote=“Loretta”]I would like to risk some money on marketing, but there’s no point in doing it if I can’t follow through. Partnerships don’t seem to work. Starting a school is excessive. What’s the third way?[/quote]

Exactly. I would phrase it a bit differently to say that there’s no point in marketing if you don’t have the infrastructure to support the service you’re providing.

Let’s say you run a successful marketing campaign and you get inundated with phone calls from potential customers (students). What do you suppose their first question is going to be? “Where’s your school?” sound about right? How long do you think they’ll stick around if your reply is that you’re going to rent some space but don’t know just where yet? Also, how will you get licensed for what is apparently an ad hoc school?[/quote]
PS I’m not interested in selling courses to companies at the prevailing rates.

Congrats on makin’ the sale!

Braxtonhicks said, “As someone else posted, it sounds like a lot of the success you have in the classroom has much to do with your personality and sure, you could create Little Lorettas but that would be another investment of time.”

Actually, I was wondering whether your technique is personality driven because if it IS, you CAN’T create Little Lorettas. (You can’t change a teacher’s personality).

I think you were a little hard on Sandman in this case. It is true that many people are quicker to sign a deal with someone in a suit and tie. I don’t doubt that he comments on your shoes and pants because he has a bit of a man-crush on you . . . Me and Big Fluffy, too!
(I mean, he has a man-crush on Big and me, too).

You might get some name cards printed with “MOE Approved” prominently displayed.

:ponder: Thinking :ponder: Still thinking . . .

No time now, but…

The 1-1 stuff is very personality-driven. Or at least it’s not replicable because very few people with the requisite background knowledge could be profitably employed by a ‘middle man’ and even if they could, it’s a fairly low-profit endeavour. I do OK at it, but there’s no long-term growth opportunity.

Group classes in companies are usually subject to a ceiling, quite understandably. Why pay for everyone to go a school when you can hire the teacher directly? HR departments are expecting to pay salary, and while they can be reasonably generous I’m not really excited by the prospect of competing with the likes of Lado when there are bigger opportunities.

As for the classes I really enjoy teaching, and that people seem to be most excited about, I think that it IS possible to find people who could teach them. They may need to spend some time synchronising their personal styles with the mine, but honestly I’m not doing anything special. There are enough creative people (with good class-management skills and sound understanding of the language) out there that in the long-term it’s probably feasible to think about expanding. I don’t think in terms of mini-Lorettas though. I would be looking for people that have their own identities/styles, as long as they’re compatible with the overall theme.

But first you need a pilot program that is a step up from classes in other peoples’ schools. I need to bring people into a situation where someone will try and sell them something. I’ve mastered the sales process and am getting better at marketing, but I can’t do either one alone.

Renting premises or buying a school only solves the problem of the venue. It doesn’t make the HR issue go away. I’m looking for solutions to the latter, but it’s tied up with the former. There must be some creative alternative solution to that.

More later. Keep it coming. I’m sure these ideas must be useful for others in the same boat even if not for me.

cheers

Being a good boss and entrepreneur requires a lot of skills and abilities. I know the HR issue will be the most hard pressed issue for you. I know 2 people in the Taipei area that would be capable, but I don’t think either would be free.

Honestly, though I think he lacks expertise in this one area, I’d ask Tomas. If he can’t give you a good idea, I bet pennies to pounds that his much smarter wife would about solving this.

I’ve only seen a handful of good secretaries in Taiwan, but they were worth far more than they were getting paid. I’d suggest intern thing with a “thinking outside the box” question, though I would avoid the window trick as that could get expensive. :stuck_out_tongue:

You need to prove these ideas can be organised and used by other people and not just your personality at work. Taiwanese can leave quite busy, stultifying lives and they like (just like most people) to engage with different, interesting people from time to time. They also can see the marketability of such a person to their customers, but only in a certain context… i.e. free-style English teaching. They might not be so open-minded if you applied to be the assistant VP…then you are a formal part of the organisation.

I think you need to start small, run a little agency yourself training other teachers in your method and see how it goes.

:eh: Okay now I’m confused, let me get this straight:

-You don’t want to sell content.
-You don’t think its possible to train teachers to emulate your style
-You don’t want to open your own perma school
-You don’t want to be salary for someone else
-You like teaching and don’t want to get away from it

Ergo, you are a freelance English teacher, paid by the hour.

So what, exactly, do you expect to do to get all these gobs of cash flowing your way? You’re a freelance English teacher and you don’t want to be anything else, don’t expect to be a boss of something unless you’re bringing value as a boss (which you’ve stated you don’t think you are). If you expect to find individuals like yourself and align their methods to yours and then take a cut off their top, what exactly is the draw for them to continue that relationship? Chances are they already successful and don’t need you.

You’re selling you time, full stop. Think you can charge more $/hr because you’re that good? Go ahead and try, the market will let you know. But you still just a teacher selling your time.

If nobody has any objections, I’m going to just talk out of my arse for a while. This thread is more about talking things through than expecting anyone to give me a solution on a plate. There have been many good points raised, very useful to me and maybe to others, too many to reply to specifically, so I’ll just share what’s in my head. Please, don’t anyone take this as an argument.

I should point out that I put this in B&M, not the teaching forum, because it’s not about teaching. It’s about business processes. I’m trying to figure out how to bring product to market efficiently. But first…

[quote=“Freakin’ Amazing”]:eh: Okay now I’m confused, let me get this straight:

-You don’t want to …[/quote]
Let’s put it another way.

I know people who write books and don’t make much money at it. I know people who own schools and don’t make much money at it. I know people who sell training programs to companies and don’t make much money at it. I know loads of people who work in this industry but very few (if any) are making lots of money. (1-1 classes are not replicable, so forget about them. Talk about group classes.)

On the other hand, it’s a huge industry and most of the people involved in it (as a business) are unimaginative and not very bright. It’s a business that has attracted a lot of average people in the past with the promise of easy money, and they’re not really equipped to deal with the way things are today.

There are massive amounts of money out there, and currently it’s spread very thinly among a great many mediocre people who are all doing basically the same thing. The only way to compete on those terms is to try and shave a few pennies off your costs or to attract a few more customers at the same time as everyone else is trying to do the same thing. I’m looking for an alternative business model, one that the average buxiban-owner isn’t going to come up with on his own.

The product, incidentally, is not the teaching material. It would take 15 minutes to teach any competent teacher (as defined previously) to follow my lesson plans, and the good ones would be contributing their own ideas right away. They could just look on any good teaching site, for starters. There’s plenty of great stuff out there, but very few people use it here because they’re focused on the tests.

Until you can persuade customers that they need to do something differently then it doesn’t matter what you’ve got, and once you have done that there’s no point inventing a whole new method. You can just use some of the fruits of the last 50 years of research that have passed the local industry by.

Any crappy buxiban or agent could get online, find some lesson plans similar to mine, and offer them tomorrow. Nobody will do that because they are focused on doing the same thing as everyone else and most believe that “the market wants” garbage. This is true, to an extent…

A few years back I was posting here quite regularly, asking anguished questions about how you get Taiwanesers to see sense. Many of the replies boiled down to “sell them what they want, teach them what they pay you to teach them.” I persisted, and now I’ve figured out how to bring people round to my way of seeing things. In other words, I can now do what most buxibans cannot. I can make people understand where their problems lie and get some degree of commitment to doing things differently. As a result, my hourly rate has increased.

The market doesn’t want garbage, the market wants a solution to a problem and the market knows that the current offerings are not working. But very few people in the industry have the ability to offer new solutions, partly because they actually know nothing about what they’re selling and won’t listen to their teachers. The other reason is that they don’t know anything about sales. They don’t know how to educate their customers, so they look around, see that nobody else is moving, and cling to what they know. And if you or I challenge them then they make excuses about what the market wants.The market wants a new solution, but needs to be educated before anyone will make any big decisions.

I can make the sale that other schools cannot, and to a large degree the ability to do that rests on my personal credibility. I’ve done my time, I have the right places on my CV, I have the right endorsements, and when I talk to people it’s very clear that I understand their needs and expectations. This much is not easily replicable, that’s my unique selling point, so I’m thinking of myself a brand rather than a product. People buy the brand, and trust me that the product is the right thing. They don’t buy the product, because I don’t even talk about it, they buy me.

Example:
Two years ago I was asked by a high school to help them prepare some students for an important competition. I did the class, but my advice to the students was over-ridden by the regular teacher - who wasn’t in the classroom with us - and they lost horribly. In other words, although I had some standing to begin with I was still a "service provider’. But it was clear I had done something beneficial even though nobody in the faculty knew what it was.

In the following semester they asked me to do a regular Saturday morning class, and I was pleased to find myself in a classroom next door to an agent I used to work for. He was providing his class, I was providing mine, and I was getting paid as much as his company was. The following academic year I was there again, during regular school hours, but the agent wasn’t, and the kids produced stuff that made the administration really take notice.

Yesterday I was invited to participate in the English faculty meeting convened by the Principal of the school. Instead of being a service provider, my expert opinions were asked on several topics. Instead of being contracted to provide a class, I was asked what I would like to do in the coming year, and what my availability was. In other words, they didn’t buy a product. They bought the brand and trusted me to take care of the product.

They have also asked me to give a presentation at their upcoming parents’ day, for which l will be paid. This is not a for-profit company that needs a white monkey for marketing. This is one of the top ten government high schools, which students compete to get into, showing a willingness to do things differently. In fact, this year my classes are only available to students whose test scores are above a certain level. Anybody (within reason) could teach what I teach, but I’m the trusted provider.

And my sale last week was to another government school that wants its students to do something other than pass tests. I’ll say it again: the market wants change. My brand is ‘the guy who knows the solution’ and people are prepared to buy from me.

If I keep going at this rate I could be running an agency specialising in creative and exciting High School English classes within a year or two. But that would be very difficult to do legally, and margins are not very big. You get paid per teacher rather than per student, so you could make a good living but never be secure.

So what’s the next step?

Firstly, a school of my own is a very limiting way to go about this. It assumes that I am only able to serve a given number (range) of students. Too many and the school is full, so I turn away business. Too few and I can’t cover the overheads. Either outcome is unacceptable. There are licensed empty classrooms all over the city, for rent by the hour. I could use none of them, all of them, or any quantity in between as demand dictates.

So if you get twenty students but they’re not available on the same day, you could split them into two groups and use a smaller cheaper classroom. You could hold classes in different areas of the city instead of asking people to travel after work. If you get more students for a given class, you could simply move to a bigger venue. If you don’t get enough sign-ups for a given class you can cancel it without being stuck with rent to pay.

Of course, if you’re consistently filling rooms in a particular area it would work out cheaper to rent premises by the month, but if you’re consistently filling rooms in a particular area then why not try and fill bigger rooms? I don’t believe that the market is X, or that we should build our businesses around X. The market is what you make it, and you need to be able to flex with it. (Which means that a lot of places should close and do something else instead of clinging on because they have nowhere else to go.)

Businesses outsource production to factories that can align supply with demand, instead of owning their own factories. Businesses outsource customer service to organisations that can provide the required number of operators at the required time, instead of trying to do it all in-house. Why should education be different? Families don’t do their education in-house, they outsource to specialists. Why do I need to get into real estate when my speciality is educating people?

Having said that, yes, customers expect to meet someone somewhere before committing to anything. A business offering classes at diverse locations still needs some kind of physical presence somewhere. Or does it? I’m stuck here. HELP!

Next, the HR issue. I think Okami was on the money about the difficulties with finding good secretarial support. The issue is motivation as much as competence, so both are leadership/training problems. But, with all due respect to my students, some people are more trainable than others. As a small business, I/you/we face the problem that we are not ‘preferred employers’ like Nike or even McDonalds. Before you can get someone into training you have to get several people to interview, and to do that you have to invite a great many, which requires a huge number of applicants. Here’s a quote from a thread a few years back:

[quote]Daphne Huang from 1111.com.tw showed us a pyramid representing the stages, and numbers of people involved, to hire just one average employee. She started with the claim that only 1/3 of job applicants are considered worth contacting.

So, out of 162 applicants, only 54 will even get a phone call. I guess that’s normal anywhere.

Of those 54, probably only 1/3 will be invited to an interview. So 18 people get invited to interview out of 162, 11%!

Here’s where the discouraging stuff starts: Of the people invited to interview, only half will show up. The rest may make some excuse, but are more likely to just disappear.

So, only nine people actually come to the interview, and approximately 1/3 of them will be considered hireable. So out of 162 applicants, only three are likely to be hired. And of those three, the probability is that only one will actually show up for work on the first day. The rest may make some excuse, but are more likely to just disappear.

Everybody present agreed with this assessment,[/quote]
So before you can hire one average employee you have to attract 162 applications. Then you have to train and motivate them. As I said, I seriously doubt that I could train a sales person, so for the time being it’s me doing sales. But that limits me to the number of people I can actually meet. You can’t fill classrooms if you try to meet every student personally.

The only people I know who do this are Excell English, who also make a point of teaching people what they need instead of what they want. I think they’re doing OK, but they’re not growing - despite having a unique and valuable service. There are limits to what you can do with this approach. Compare and contrast to this advice from a friend of mine who runs a chain of adult buxibans that has grown steadily. They have more sales staff than teachers, btw, consuming a greater share of the money.

[quote]It is true that mass market is what we are good at. In stead of promoting
individual teachers, we promote our school as a total English learning
environment with custom service and support… I can only tell you from my personal
experience that you need a couple of trusted partners (share holders) to
plan things and to work with you. It is really difficult to start a new
business all by yourself.

… But you need to have a solid business plan and a business model first.
I can’t see a business model from your description at this moment.[/quote]
Mass market… promote the brand not the product… trusted partners… business model.

Like I said, I’m looking for a new business model. I’m vexed by the people issue. I have the brand, or at least the embryo of one.

Oh, and Buttercup, you’re right about needing a one-liner to define what I’m selling.