A teachable moment for the DPP?

[rowland]

taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c … id=2455573

Former Premier Frank Hsieh said Wednesday that the Sunflaowers student movement has injected a great deal of energy and enthusiasm into the social and political arenas of Taiwan. For the DPP, he said, this represents a golden window of opportunity to examine the state of the party and see what can be done to strengthen and improve its operations. Hsieh said the window will be open for a period of about a month to a month and a half, and all candidates for party chairman should submit ideas for transformation and reform.

Hsieh said that the tremendous amount of attention lavished on the students during their three-week occupation of the Legislative Yuan may have marginalized the DPP somewhat. He said the party take note of this crisis and hold a “party conference” to openly discuss problems and opportunities in depth.

You gotta hit bottom before you’ll really do what it takes to change. But where’s the bottom?

[FurTrader]

[quote=“rowland”]
You gotta hit bottom before you’ll really do what it takes to change. But where’s the bottom?[/quote]

correct me if I’m wrong, but won’t several thousand PLA soldiers
marching up Ketagalan Boulevard be the bottom for Taiwan?

[Hokwongwei]

Rock bottom is putting “Sunflaowers” within the first 10 words of your article and somehow not noticing it.

[Flakman]

I do worry the DPP can decline even more. The students will definitely put a strain on the DPP. I think the DPP will struggle to come out with clear messages to gain the general public’s attention…while the students can just toss out any topic at any time as a motive for another march on the legislature. The result will be the general public will blame DPP for the mess the students create.

Also from that article…

Hsieh said that the DPP has a lot of work to do now that the student protest movement seems set to go to its next phase. As the largest opposition party in Taiwan, said Hsieh, the DPP must work to ensure the expectations of the people. As for the students, he said they have taken on the role of gatekeepers and guardians of the country’s future.

“…the DPP must work to ensure the expectations of the people”…but…“the students, he said have taken the role of gatekeepers and guardians of the country’s future” Hmmm…I thought elected officials (DPP) chosen by the people were supposed to take most of that role. No…sorry…the students know best what the country should be doing…so they should just continue to bypass democratically elected officials.

The DPP should be scared, very scared of what havoc the students could actually cause for DPP. What direction will DPP chose? Daily demonstrations against everything? or try to pull back and be more of a mainstream party to try to obtain votes to reach a majority in government?

[Hokwongwei]

I don’t follow. Frank Hsieh is not an elected anything. He is a former premier (appointed) who wants people within his party to elect him to party chairman. How is his authority being usurped by the students?

[rowland]

Every person who has ever been elected had, at some point in his life, never been elected, and will, at some point, never again be elected.

Voters can be fickle, especially when those who are currently elected aren’t getting the job done. These protest leaders might some day soon run for office, and the voters will think to themselves: sure, why not?

[Flakman]

And there will be people who think “absolutely no way do I want someone like that to run this country.” Well, that is democracy. I only hope these young people recognize that if they or their preferred candidates are NOT chosen to run the country they should respect other people’s choice…and not try to usurp the government to save the “stupid” people who decided to vote for someone else.

[yuli]

@Flakman

I only hope these young people recognize that if they or their preferred candidates are NOT chosen to run the country they should respect other people’s choice.

What was that fitting expression someone posted in this thread?

Right, here we have it:

@Mucha Man

You are typing boilerplate.

[Flakman]

A nice change from the same old bad mouthing Ma and KMT right?

[Hokwongwei]

I agree that the KMT is a terrible political party because their opposition does not actually give them a run for the money. They have no incentive not to make horrible policy decisions because they keep getting elected anyway.

[rowland]

@Flakman

I only hope these young people recognize that if they or their preferred candidates are NOT chosen to run the country they should respect other people’s choice…and not try to usurp the government to save the “stupid” people who decided to vote for someone else.

There’s a standard rejoinder for this standard point, but the standard response to the standard rejoinder is to bring up Godwin’s Law.

Anyway, democracy can and does self destruct in certain circumstances. Because sometimes voters are, in fact, stupid.

[Flakman]

Hmmm…seems more than a few people on this site use this logic. Since the Taiwan voters are stupid the DPP, students or others have the right or obligation to step in and stop this democracy from getting worse.

That would mean that DPP or any minority party does not have to make any changes to attract voters because most of the voters are stupid anyway.

But from another viewpoint, some might say the DPP/student supporters are stupid which is leading to the destruction of democracy here.

[Hokwongwei]

[quote=“Flakman”]Hmmm…seems more than a few people on this site use this logic. Since the Taiwan voters are stupid the DPP, students or others have the right or obligation to step in and stop this democracy from getting worse.

That would mean that DPP or any minority party does not have to make any changes to attract voters because most of the voters are stupid anyway.

But from another viewpoint, some might say the DPP/student supporters are stupid which is leading to the destruction of democracy here.[/quote]

What on earth are you trying to get at with this circular logic?

[Dirt]

The DPP certainly needs to move from the Party of Opposition to the Party with Propositions.

[Hokwongwei]

@Dirt

The DPP certainly needs to move from the Party of Opposition to the Party with Propositions.

The party of propositions with recognition for the opposition and politicians who are more than rhetoricians to prevent a repetition of supposition that their disposition is all about admonition and lacking definition, exposition, intuition, and true ambition.

I’ll take my Grammy now.

[Mucha_Man]

@Hokwongwei

[quote=“Dirt”]The DPP certainly needs to move from the Party of Opposition to the Party with Propositions.

The party of propositions with recognition for the opposition and politicians who are more than rhetoricians to prevent a repetition of supposition that their disposition is all about admonition and lacking definition, exposition, intuition, and true ambition.

I’ll take my Grammy now.[/quote]

They call him Hokapotamus
With rhymes damn near bottomless

[rowland]

taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c … id=2459220

Rocked by wide-ranging and bitter criticism over its exclusion from any meaningful role in the recent student occupation of the Legislative Yuan, the DPP is feeling the ‘morning-after’ effects as it gears up for in-party election of its chairman. Monday was the first day of official registration for the race, and rather than show up to fill out his application, current Chairman shocked many inside and outside the party by posting a notice on Facebook at 8am that he would not enter the race. Three hours later former DPP chairman Frank Hsieh followed suit, announcing that for two days he has already been telling supporters in the party that in the interest of bringing about effective reform in the party he is also withdrawing from contention.

If only American politicians could bow out with this much grace.