Abandon Ship!

Dubya has lost the support of the guys that led him into the Iraq mess in the first place…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061104/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_critics;_ylt=Ai34B7Ml.d1In6GjRhsP.jLMWM0F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-

A storm is brewing in neo-con town.

What’s it gonna take for this guy to admit he failed? Eventually, he is going to have to accept that he has the blood of thousands of dead folks on his hands, all for nothing. In fact, the rash decisions made by this hapless group have done little more than further destabilize the region…mission accomplished!!!

I’m actually beginning to feel sorry for Dubya…scary thought. He is, undoubtedly, going to go down as perhaps the worst president ever to take the oath…he has to be in the running? The American public should just let him bow out and go back to bankrupting oil companies and executing folks in Texas, he seemed to be pretty effective in those endeavors?!

Notice that these guys who were running around pounding their chests doing their best alpha-male iimitations after the fall of Saddam are now most anxious to deny having any responsibility.

Jake Blues, official spokesman for right-wingers everywhere:

They’re not the only ones:

Ralph Peterrs, March 2006:

[quote]During a recent visit to Baghdad, I saw an enormous failure. On the part of our media. The reality in the streets, day after day, bore little resemblance to the sensational claims of civil war and disaster in the headlines.

No one with first-hand experience of Iraq would claim the country’s in rosy condition, but the situation on the ground is considerably more promising than the American public has been led to believe. Lurid exaggerations and instant myths obscure real, if difficult, progress.

I left Baghdad more optimistic than I was before this visit. While cynicism, political bias and the pressure of a 24/7 news cycle accelerate a race to the bottom in reporting, there are good reasons to be soberly hopeful about Iraq’s future.[/quote]
realclearpolitics.com/articl … _iraq.html

Ralph Peters, October 2006:

[quote]Iraq is failing. No honest observer can conclude otherwise. Even six months ago, there was hope. Now the chances for a democratic, unified Iraq are dwindling fast. The country’s prime minister has thrown in his lot with al-Sadr, our mortal enemy. He has his eye on the future, and he’s betting that we won’t last. The police are less accountable than they were under Saddam. Our extensive investment in Iraqi law enforcement only produced death squads. Government ministers loot the country to strengthen their own factions. Even Iraq’s elections — a worthy experiment — further divided Iraq along confessional and ethnic lines. Iraq still exists on the maps, but in reality it’s gone. Only a military coup — which might come in the next few years — could hold the artificial country together.

This chaos wasn’t inevitable. While in Iraq late last winter, I remained soberly hopeful. Since then, the strength of will of our opponents — their readiness to pay any price and go to any length to win — has eclipsed our own. The valor of our enemies never surpassed that of our troops, but it far exceeded the fair-weather courage of the Bush administration.

Yet, for all our errors, we did give the Iraqis a unique chance to build a rule-of-law democracy. They preferred to indulge in old hatreds, confessional violence, ethnic bigotry and a culture of corruption. It appears that the cynics were right: Arab societies can’t support democracy as we know it. And people get the government they deserve.[/quote]
blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/11/post_6.html

Yep, we did our noble best, but it turns out they’re just a bunch of worthless raghead camel jockey sand n******s after all.

PS- clip the url you cite.

Like it or lump it, the US has a moral obligation to sort this mess out.

HG

Yes, but I’m afraid it’s going to be this whole Humpty dumpty thing again.

:laughing:

HG

Neoconservatives, masters of lies:

". . . it’s good news when Scowcroft comes out against the desperately-needed and long overdue war against Saddam Hussein and the rest of the terror masters. As usual, Scowcroft has it backwards: He’s still pushing Saudi Arabia’s Prince Abdullah’s line that you’ve just got to deal with the Palestinian question. Blessedly, President Bush knows by now that the Palestinian question can only be addressed effectively once the war against Saddam and his ilk has been won. And then Scowcroft says “Saddam is a problem, but he’s not a problem because of terrorism.”

This is the head of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Commission? Doesn’t he read the newspapers? He doesn’t seem to realize that Saddam is actively supporting al Qaeda, and Abu Nidal, and Hezbollah.

However, nobody is perfect, and Scowcroft has managed to get one thing half right, even though he misdescribes it. He fears that if we attack Iraq “I think we could have an explosion in the Middle East. It could turn the whole region into a caldron and destroy the War on Terror.”

One can only hope that we turn the region into a cauldron, and faster, please. If ever there were a region that richly deserved being cauldronized, it is the Middle East today. If we wage the war effectively, we will bring down the terror regimes in Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and either bring down the Saudi monarchy or force it to abandon its global assembly line to indoctrinate young terrorists.

That’s our mission in the war against terror."
Michael Ledeen, August 6, 2002

" . . . I opposed the military invasion of Iraq before it took place and I advocated—as I still do—support for political revolution in Iran as the logical and necessary first step in the war against the terror masters.

Readers of NRO know well how disappointed I have been with our failure to address Iran, which was, and remains, the central issue, and it has been particularly maddening to live through extended periods when our children were in battle zones where Iranian-supported terrorists were using Iranian-made weapons against Americans, Iraqis and Afghans. I have been expressing my discontent for more than three years. So much for a change of heart dictated by developments on the ground.

So it is totally misleading for Vanity Fair to suggest that I have had second thoughts about our Iraq policy. But then one shouldn’t be surprised. No one ever bothered to check any of the lies in the first screed . . . ."
Michael Ledeen, November 4, 2006

Hitchens is interesting on this.

HG

[quote]Rushing for the Exit
If we leave Iraq, what happens to the supporters of democracy?
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Oct. 30, 2006, at 6:14 PM ET
To say that “exit strategies” from Iraq have become the flavor of the month would be to exaggerate the situation to the point of absurdity. Exit strategies are not even the fall fashion. They are the regnant topic of conversation all across the political establishment and have been for some time. Even the Bush administration has some share in this discourse, having now abandoned the useless mantra of “staying the course” without quite defining what that “course” might be—or might have been. (A rule of thumb in politics is that any metaphor drawn from sporting activity is worse than useless, but at least one doesn’t hear people saying that in Iraq we are “at the bottom of the ninth” or some such horse manure.)[/quote]

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Hitchens is interesting on this.

HG

[quote]Rushing for the Exit
If we leave Iraq, what happens to the supporters of democracy?
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Oct. 30, 2006, at 6:14 PM ET
To say that “exit strategies” from Iraq have become the flavor of the month would be to exaggerate the situation to the point of absurdity. Exit strategies are not even the fall fashion. They are the regnant topic of conversation all across the political establishment and have been for some time. Even the Bush administration has some share in this discourse, having now abandoned the useless mantra of “staying the course” without quite defining what that “course” might be—or might have been. (A rule of thumb in politics is that any metaphor drawn from sporting activity is worse than useless, but at least one doesn’t hear people saying that in Iraq we are “at the bottom of the ninth” or some such horse manure.)[/quote][/quote]

Hitchens is right about the fact that there are no viable exit strategies from Iraq. He fails as usual though to recognize the true ‘why’ – which is because Iraq is a bona fide quagmire.

So what are the options, Spook?

HG

I am not rushing for the exit. Things are not going well. They have never been going well. They were not going well before we invaded. I think that the invasion was the right thing to do at the right time. Our expectations were misplaced but that does not change the fact that the status quo was not acceptable either. At least, now, there is a possibility of moving forward. Kurdistan suffered the exact same violence and fighting from 1994-1998 and now is a beacon of stability. We need to let the forces fight this out and then come to a conclusion where stability can be achieved. Is it going to be pretty? No, but there you are. At least, Saddam is out of power and his wmd programs and the exact status of the development of such weapons is known. Sanctions have ended.

And this idea that “if you break it, you pay for it” doesn’t fly with me either. It was not as if Iraq was not broken and broken badly before the invasion.

Anyway, this is not just an American problem, but it is one that America is uniquely handling to the best of its ability with supplementary support from many allies. The problem is not that America broke Iraq. The problem is that America is about the only nation that can do anything about any problem. France can handle a Cote d’Ivoire or Haiti to some extent but what kind of stability are we seeing in those places? Not much and THAT is the problem. How do you deal with nations that simply are not equipped to govern themselves in a civilized manner?

The problem again is not that America was a gunho cowboy that went willy nilly into Iraq. The problem is that civilization is breaking down all over the world and no one really wants to do anything about that. How are those UN resolutions working to stop the violence in Darfur? Let’s face it. A wholescale recolonization (or call it nationbuilding if that suits you better) is needed around the world and no one except the US is really up to the task. Those who think that they can sit back and smirk at the failures of the US led effort in Iraq had better think long and hard about how that is going to affect them and their “security” no matter where they are.

There’s Somalia. There is Algeria. There is Congo. There is Rwanda. There is Pakistan. There is Afghanistan. There is Uzbekistan. There is the Solomon Islands. There is Nauru. There is East Timor. What the hell are we going to do about these places? Iraq is just one of the more important ones. Let’s not even talk about Syria, Iran and North Korea. Then, what happens if Cuba goes into meltdown? the immigrant communities of Europe?

No. I am not rushing to the exit because there is no exit from these problems. There is only an attempt by one group led by the US to actually do something about the problems. The other group thinks that just because it adheres to “civilized” post-modern views on “communicative theory” that all these problems can be addressed through dialogue in the UN where resolutions can be drafted and miracle of miracles the problems will be solved through civilized discourse. Welcome to the real world.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]So what are the options, Spook?

HG[/quote]

The core problem in the Middle East is the Palestinian problem. Without fixing it equitably we have no credibility in anything we do and it remains the wedge issue fueling Arab alienation, lending legitimacy to terrorist alternatives and poisoning everything we attempt in the Middle East. The other key problem is that Arabs and Muslims believe we plan to permanently occupy Arab countries and impose puppet status on them so we need to make it absolutely clear to the Iraqi people that we will leave Iraq completely the moment they tell us to leave and then set up up a mechanism for allowing them to make their will known on the issue of continued occupation on a regular basis.

The prerequisite step for achieving anything constructive in the Middle East though is to remove neoconservative extremists from power in Washington and London and then to show the Arab world clearly how our policies in the region have fundamentally changed from one of deception, taking sides and encouraging ideological strife to that of a truly neutral party sincerely committed to promoting justice and stability in the region and eliminating terrorism and injustice – by any party to the conflict.

The true battle being fought in the Middle East is for the hearts and minds of the moderate majority there because we can’t achieve anything without their support by force alone. By any rational measure though, we’re losing this true key battle in the war on terrorism and instability in the Middle East.

The tipping point is fast approaching though beyond which so much blood will have been spilled and so many communities torn apart that nothing we do or say any longer will make any difference to the moderates in the region. We will have permanently lost their hearts and minds to the Nasrallah and Al-Sadr alternatives.

Forgive me but I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept that the Pakistanis were developing nuclear weapons because of the Palestinian problem, that Afghanistan was invaded by the Russians because of Palestine and became radicalized under the Taliban because of Israel or that Iran overthrew the shah because of the Palestinians and became radicalized under the mullahs with the intent to develop a nuke because of Palestine or that the Saudis and their wahabi ministers started preaching intolerance and hate only with the advent of the problem in Palestine while the Libyans were developing nukes because of the Palestinian problem and the Algerian civil war was all about Palestine and that the lack of freedom for women and anyone else for that matter in the Middle East has to do with the problem of Palestine. So what are the solutions: give Palestine a state? That was tried but to my knowledge, it did not have an appreciable effect on how the mullahs acted, how Saddam behaved, and whether women could vote throughout the rest of the Middle East.

The problem is almost civilizational to the core. What are we going to do with people who have no history of dealing with modernity when they come face to face with it and choose to reject it? This is not just the Middle East. The problems with the Middle East are ones of terror and religious inspired messianic destruction while in Africa it is tribalism while in Latin America it is narcotraffickers while in other places it is something else. Civilization is breaking down in many countries and the steps that are needed to address this require vast sums of money and active involvement by the West. OR we are going to be seeing an ever increased number of failed states around the world and the UN ain’t going to be able to do nothin about them.

Don’t take my word for it – or the word of those whose policies have clearly failed to promote peace and stability in the Middle East:

". . . My idea for untangling this knot is Enlightened Moderation, which I think is a win for all – for both the Muslim and non-Muslim worlds. It is a two-pronged strategy. The first part is for the Muslim world to shun militancy and extremism and adopt the path of socioeconomic uplift. The second is for the West, and the United States in particular, to seek to resolve all political disputes with justice and to aid in the socioeconomic betterment of the deprived Muslim world.

We need to understand that the root cause of extremism and militancy lies in political injustice, denial and deprivation. Political injustice to a nation or a people, when combined with stark poverty and illiteracy, makes for an explosive mix. It produces an acute sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. A nation suffering from these lethal ills is easily available for the propagation of militancy and the perpetration of extremist, terrorist acts. It is cannon fodder in a war of terrorism.

I would be remiss if, in defense of the people of my faith, I did not trace the genesis of the Muslims’ being labeled as extremists or terrorists. Before the anti-Soviet Afghan war, the sole cause of unrest and concern in the Muslim world was the Palestine dispute. It was this issue that led to a unity of Muslims – in favor of Palestinians and against Israel. The Afghan war of the 1980s, supported and facilitated by the West as a proxy war against the Soviet Union, saw the emergence and nurturing of pan-Islamic militancy. Islam as a religion was used to harness worldwide Muslim support. Subsequently the atrocities and ethnic cleansing against Muslims in Bosnia, the Chechen uprising, the Kashmir freedom struggle and the invigorated Palestinian intifada all erupted in the '90s after the Soviet disintegration. . . ."
Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf

I thought that a few highlights from the Vanity Fair article would make good reading.

[quote=“http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612?printable=true&currentPage=all]Vanity Fair”]Richard Perle: “The levels of brutality that we’ve seen are truly horrifying, and I have to say, I underestimated the depravity,” Perle says now, adding that total defeat—an American withdrawal that leaves Iraq as an anarchic “failed state”—is not yet inevitable but is becoming more likely. “And then,” says Perle, “you’ll get all the mayhem that the world is capable of creating.”

According to Perle, who left the Defense Policy Board in 2004, this unfolding catastrophe has a central cause: devastating dysfunction within the administration of President George W. Bush. Perle says, “The decisions did not get made that should have been. They didn’t get made in a timely fashion, and the differences were argued out endlessly.… At the end of the day, you have to hold the president responsible.… I don’t think he realized the extent of the opposition within his own administration, and the disloyalty.”
[Hahaha… that’s right, it’s disloyalty of the opposition with the admin. What do others say?]

To David Frum, the former White House speechwriter who co-wrote Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address that accused Iraq of being part of an “axis of evil,” it now looks as if defeat may be inescapable, because “the insurgency has proven it can kill anyone who cooperates, and the United States and its friends have failed to prove that it can protect them.” This situation, he says, must ultimately be blamed on “failure at the center”—starting with President Bush.

“I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything.

[Kenneth Adelman:] The policy can be absolutely right, and noble, beneficial, but if you can’t execute it, it’s useless, just useless. I guess that’s what I would have said: that Bush’s arguments are absolutely right, but you know what, you just have to put them in the drawer marked can’t do. And that’s very different from let’s go."

Richard Perle: “In the administration that I served [Perle was an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan], there was a one-sentence description of the decision-making process when consensus could not be reached among disputatious departments: ‘The president makes the decision.’ [Bush] did not make decisions, in part because the machinery of government that he nominally ran was actually running him. The National Security Council was not serving [Bush] properly. He regarded [then National-Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice] as part of the family.

Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute freedom scholar: “Ask yourself who the most powerful people in the White House are. They are women who are in love with the president: Laura [Bush], Condi, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes.”

Frank Gaffney, an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan and founder of the Center for Security Policy: “[Bush] doesn’t in fact seem to be a man of principle who’s steadfastly pursuing what he thinks is the right course. He talks about it, but the policy doesn’t track with the rhetoric, and that’s what creates the incoherence that causes us problems around the world and at home. It also creates the sense that you can take him on with impunity.”

Kenneth Adelman: “The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who’ve ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There’s no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq.”[/quote]

I can’t wait for the full article to appear in January.

The two key points, to my mind:

  1. Bush talks the talk, but doesn’t understand the words coming out of his mouth, or how they’re supposed to reflect reality.
  2. Even if the ideas were good–and that’s a very big
    IF
    –if you can’t make it happen, trying to do so is worse than useless, it’s dangerous.