Abusively Really Bad Parents Should be Sterilized

Discussion Open Forum
1

How should we deal with the parents?

  • Prison for Life
  • Sterilize them
  • Euthanize them

0 voters

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071129/ap_ … K1gxZH2ocA

Reading stuff like this really ticks my hide, and gets me thinking about sterilization, if not worse. Notwithstanding the Constitution, etc., these people should be sterilized, beaten, jailed for life, or all of the above.

[quote]
Zeigler [aged 24] wanted his wife to spank Riley with a belt when she failed to say things like “please” and “yes sir” or “no sir,” Stickler said Wednesday. Zeigler didn’t believe Trenor was doing it, however, because the 2-year-old’s behavior wasn’t changing.

The fatal beating happened after Zeigler stayed home from work to make sure his wife was following his discipline plan, Stickler said. [note: he was skipping work or was suspended; who stays home from work to do this?]

In her statement to Galveston authorities, Trenor said the girl was beaten with leather belts, had her head held underwater in a bathtub and then was thrown across a room, her head slamming into a tile floor. [because she failed to say “please”? note: the guy was drunk, high, or has serious mental problems, or all of the above]

Although the affidavit said the couple abused Riley over a four- to six-hour period, Stickler said it wasn’t a continuous event. Instead, Zeigler grew increasingly enraged as he spanked Riley and she kept forgetting to do things the way he wanted. [note: not continuous, because the kid probably passed out, and he moved to another room to drink, get high, some more.]

“There was never an intention to beat Riley to death,” he said. [note: No, he just flew into a rage, and oops, the child died. You don’t beat a child over 4-6 hours without realizing the child could die.][/quote]

2

Prison for a very long time - That’s what prison is for. And mental teatment.

3

I don’t know if the notes in the quote are yours but if they are I would think outside the box a little bit more.

While alochol and drugs most certainly contribute highly to altering a person’s behavior, underlying causes like mental health and their own rearing have a greater impact.

Prison isn’t really going to do much for those parents anyway. So lock them up and let them knit and take anger management classes for a done deed? Yea that’s gonna work.
The solution/cure has to go deeper than prison or sterilization.

4

Right. They murdered the child, and are deserving of the full force of the law. Draw and quarter 'em.

5

Prison for life and sterilization.

6

:laughing: why sterilize when they are in prison for life? Are men having babies now?

7

I have long held that people should undergo child rearing training and be licensed before being allowed to reproduce little humans.

Of course the paranoids who see this as the ‘evil state’ intruding into personal privacy, it is incidents such as this that show the terribly sad results of allowing humans to reproduce at convenience. Too many drop off-spring without having a clue as to the responsibilities a young life requires.

8

Just put 'em under a giant hydraulic steel heel and crush 'em like roaches.

But I’m of the opinion that people should have to pass highly exacting tests, including probing psychological assessments, before being licensed to have a child. Get pregnant or impregnate twice without a license, and it’s automatic sterilization. Any child born to an unlicensed parent will be taken away for adoption by licensed parents. We can implement effective licensing systems for driving and all kinds of occupations, so why not for parenthood - 'cause bad parenting has the potential to cause at least as much harm as any of those other things done badly.

[EDIT: How funny, TC - I was writing my post as you posted yours. Do we really think that much alike? OMG!]

9

He committed abuse and murder - lock him up for life.

10

You didn’t know? :smiley:

Was just thinking that he may get out on parole or that a life sentence doesn’t always mean life, sometimes it might only be 15 years or so.

A bit difficult to control and enforce though.

11

[quote=“Omniloquacious”]Just put 'em under a giant hydraulic steel heel and crush 'em like roaches.

But I’m of the opinion that people should have to pass highly exacting tests, including probing psychological assessments, before being licensed to have a child. Get pregnant or impregnate twice without a license, and it’s automatic sterilization. Any child born to an unlicensed parent will be taken away for adoption by licensed parents. We can implement effective licensing systems for driving and all kinds of occupations, so why not for parenthood - 'cause bad parenting has the potential to cause at least as much harm as any of those other things done badly.

[EDIT: How funny, TC - I was writing my post as you posted yours. Do we really think that much alike? OMG!][/quote]

:noway: That’s fuging scary. I see the whole race factor coming into play here. Danger Will Robinson Danger!!! : :runaway:

12

why can’t I click on all three poll options?

unfortunately, castration or imprisonment, or all three one after the other, does not help the little girl at the centre of the story.

but perhaps licencing would be some sort of idea. I mean, i agree with the concept, but have a look at China: despite the one child law, there are many prepared to pay the fine to have more, there are many who have more by ‘accident’, and there are many who are exempt (in the country).

how wold you enforce such a requirement? having babies is a pretty easy thing to do when you are young and stupid… look at the rates of teenage pregnancy some time. you would have to temporarily sterilise people, and then give them an antidote if they pass the licence test. unworkable.

another way would be to withhold any sort of social security from unlicenced families: a very apt solution for Americans and their system of govt and its constitution to come to grips with. this would stop the state paying for mothers with unsanctioned babies, but would most target the most disadvantaged… and then the situation for children born into those families would be even more desperate.

prevention rather than post hoc reaction is the key, but how does one educate and train all possible parents, when the ones most likely to offend in this way are those least likely to receive adequate training? the education system already fails too many.

13

The more and more I read this, it is getting scarier. Heard of ROE VS WADE? Of course this isn’t an abortion issue, but it is fundementally a reproductive one. And who can properly decide how a woman should and when she is able to reproduce? And under what circumstances? A man? A well educated person, who may or may not have choicen to have children? A right winger? Or a left winger?

Besides who is “fit” to tell me how well I am going to be as a parent?

14

[quote=“Namahottie”]The more and more I read this, it is getting scarier. Heard of ROE VS WADE? Of course this isn’t an abortion issue, but it is fundementally a reproductive one. And who can properly decide how a woman should and when she is able to reproduce? And under what circumstances? A man? A well educated person, who may or may not have choicen to have children? A right winger? Or a left winger?

Besides who is “fit” to tell me how well I am going to be as a parent?[/quote]

I think that the “am going to be” part is the key. Because in most places the state already has the power to pass judgment on how good a parent someone actually is, and if you are doing a bad enough job (in their opinion) the state will say “Okay, you’re no longer permitted to be a parent to these kids”, and the children will be taken away and put in some kind of foster care.

So the question here is whether the state should be given the power to make that judgment in advance.

------ On the one hand, one might think that the more dire the consequences of letting people try and fail, the more we would want to try and weed out the bad apples in advance (e.g. we don’t let people just get a car and start driving and then only take away their driving privileges when it turns out they’re bad drivers – we at least make them pass a basic test first).

------ On the other hand, one might think that the more subjective/unreliable we think the initial “test” is, the more we would want to let people give it a try first and then only intervene if it turns out they can’t handle the responsibility.

To me, these two factors work in opposite directions when it comes to the right to have kids. I agree with Namahottie that the initial determination for who would make a good parent is orders of magnitude more subjective and unreliable than, say, a driving test (which is why I share her opinion that the very idea is more than a little scary). But I can also see the view of those who say that the consequences of allowing people to “try and fail” at being a parent (“fail” not as in “That father doesn’t go to parent teacher conferences or read to his kid enough”, but “fail” as in a parent kills a child or injures a child physically or emotionally for life) are orders of magnitude more serious than the consequences of letting someone, say, “try and fail” at being a real estate agent (something which generally requires a license from the state in advance in order to do).

15

good points, Hobbes. (and Calvin). and Namma.

there are those that say that having children is a natural right, there are those who say it is a God-given duty, and there are those who have children for many other reasons, even to get more support money from the State, or to tie a partner to them, or because they were raped, or to feel what it’s like to be a mother. a vrey broad ange of rationalisations, and insom cases, totally by accident (well, there had to be SOMETHING going on).

it’s a little different to wanting to be a real etate agent. i mean, that takes REAL courage.

16

I agree with that, urodacus. “How fundamental is the ‘right’ that you are considering requiring a license for?” should be a key part of the discussion.

17

[quote=“Hobbes”][quote=“Namahottie”]The more and more I read this, it is getting scarier. Heard of ROE VS WADE? Of course this isn’t an abortion issue, but it is fundementally a reproductive one. And who can properly decide how a woman should and when she is able to reproduce? And under what circumstances? A man? A well educated person, who may or may not have choicen to have children? A right winger? Or a left winger?

Besides who is “fit” to tell me how well I am going to be as a parent?[/quote]

I think that the “am going to be” part is the key. Because in most places the state already has the power to pass judgment on how good a parent someone actually is, and if you are doing a bad enough job (in their opinion) the state will say “Okay, you’re no longer permitted to be a parent to these kids”, and the children will be taken away and put in some kind of foster care. [/quote]

The Case of Marie and Her Sons By Daniel Bergner

I am not disputing what you’re saying Hobbes, but read the above article and you (in general) see that even in the case of foster care and state taking control it doesn’t come lightly. Even the worse parents still have some hope of maintaining rights when it comes to their children.

18

[quote=“Namahottie”]The more and more I read this, it is getting scarier. Heard of ROE VS WADE? Of course this isn’t an abortion issue, but it is fundementally a reproductive one. And who can properly decide how a woman should and when she is able to reproduce? And under what circumstances? A man? A well educated person, who may or may not have choicen to have children? A right winger? Or a left winger?

Besides who is “fit” to tell me how well I am going to be as a parent?[/quote]

[quote]The more and more I read this, it is getting scarier. [/quote] That’s not English btw.

But you’re right, there isn’t a simple solution and involves balancing the rights of the individual, the child and the state. And it is scary when a set of people ie the government start regulating other people’s lives in the bedroom and more, even when a child’s life is at stake.

19

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]I have long held that people should undergo child rearing training and be licensed before being allowed to reproduce little humans.

Of course the paranoids who see this as the ‘evil state’ intruding into personal privacy, it is incidents such as this that show the terribly sad results of allowing humans to reproduce at convenience. Too many drop off-spring without having a clue as to the responsibilities a young life requires.[/quote]

This is very surprising, coming from you. I am against government interference with reproductive rights, as I view such rights as intrinsic to human freedom, dignity, and purpose. But even if such a scheme were permissable, I doubt it would really prevent these kinds of atrocities. These events are the exception and the exceptions would continue. Also, how many people have you known in your life that matured only after having children? I can think of several, including family members, none of whom would have passed a test prior to having children, but are now wonderful parents.

20

[quote=“Jack Burton”]

That’s not English btw.
.[/quote]

Well there you have it folks, Namahottie isn’t prepared to have kids because of her English ablities. :noway: