Accident woes

[quote=“songzzz”][quote=“cableguy”]songzzz

Don’t you have insurance? What does your carrier say about this situation?[/quote]

Yeap. I just got off the phone with the insurance company. According to them, the victim is suppose to claim all medical expenses via his own insurance co. I will therefore only be required to pay for his vehicle repairs and perhaps offer some form of compensation for his pain and grief. That’s about it.

It seems the police are on his side… maybe because I am a foreigner…

What would you do? Help and advise needed.

Any lawyers on the board?[/quote]

That’s what happens when you (1) drive a Porsche in Taipei, (2) run over a local guy so the whole island is angling for a cut of the action, (3) you can afford to buy legal representation instead of begging and pleading on a not-for-profit public board.

:unamused:

Actually, NT$200,000 is not such a big demand as the starting-point for negotiation.

If I had been knocked down and “run over” by someone driving an extremely expensive car, suffered ligament damage and had to be put in a brace for six weeks, I’d consider such a sum barely sufficient to compensate me for the trauma, pain and suffering, inconvenience, loss of mobility, time wasted in obtaining medical treatment, curtailment of my ability to exercise, disruption of my sex life, difficulty in sleeping at night, worry about possible long-term effects of the injury, and so on. (I wonder what you mean by “run over”? It sounds rather serious.)

Perhaps the guy will be unable to work and will lose substantial income as a result of his injury/injuries. If so, you’ll be liable to compensate him for such loss of earnings, which could easily amount to a six-figure sum if, for example, he’s a skilled worker with steady employment.

If the matter ends up going to court, you’re all but certain to have judgment entered against you, regardless of any prejudice that the judge may nurse toward you because you’re a foreigner. In Taiwan, the larger vehicle is almost always held liable for a collision with a smaller one, and the policeman who attended the accident has already pronounced you to blame for it. As the driver of a car that in this country is considered a plaything for the very wealthy, you’d hardly be likely to gain much sympathy from the bench, whatever you might have to say about it. The judge would most probably be disposed to push up the plaintiff’s damages to the highest amount that could possibly be justified, and you’d also have to foot the bill for both sides’ legal costs. It could all amount to even more than the NT$200,000 that the victim has asked for.

If you negotiate with the victim, show a good attitude, express sincere remorse and sympathy, and plead your case well, you shouldn’t have too much difficulty getting him to settle for half or less of the amount he’s asking for (depending on his character, sense of grievance, and how much he’s genuinely suffered and lost as a result of the accident). If some or most of that is covered by your insurance company, you won’t have come out of it too badly, in my opinion.

Finally, to answer the question in your original post, you may rest assured that, whether or not this goes to court, it will not have any bearing on your visa or work-permit status.

[quote=“songzzz”]I have a internatinal driving permit that has been endorsed by a local traffic department. A few days ago, I knocked down and ran over a motorcyclist. It was a freak accident and luckily he suffered only minor injuries.

The motorcyclist declined my offer of NT$30K as a form of compensation. Apparently, he is looking to get more $$ out of me (I was driving a Porsche) and threatens to take legal actions. [/quote]

You should have returned and backed over him. :smiling_imp:

Offer what you are willing to offer but if he doesn’t accept it let him go to court. Then get a lawyer to settle things; and if the court decides you have to pay 200k (or whatever) then pay - if it was your fault you should take responsibility for it.

  1. Omni is correct in theory, but I feel, from experience and understanding, that the 200K figure is too high, given the light injuries.
  2. If it was a “freak” accident, why did you say that the police said it was your fault?
  3. Were you cited by the police? If so, for what? If not, then the other guy has no legal basis for a suit.
  4. Unless the guy had other injury insurance ( :laughing: ) the law requires motorcyclists to have only coverage for the other party in an accident (up to, perhaps not coincidentally, 200K). You can buy insurance for the other guy and yourself, but all of the Taiwanese I have talked to have only the minimum (even though it is only NT$400 more a year). My point being that the motorcyclist here probably is not covered.
  5. Stick to the NT$30,000 opening offer. If they want to try to make you their personal insurance company, let them do it via a judge. If they take it that far (doubtful), then you will know that you are paying him fair compensation as determined by the law, not some rabbit out of a hat figure dreamed up by the motorcyclist.

Thank you…you now owe me NT$10,000 for legal advice. :wink:

I too suffered an accident in February. I came around a corner a little too quickly and ran into the back of a double parked cab. The driver was on the sidewalk having a chew. I broke my elbow in 2 places. The cops told me I was not at fault and had 6 months to sue. As I am not American, the idea of litigation has not even entered my mind. Did I mention that I don’t have a d/l? Anyhoo, the cabbie’s insurance company and I entered negotiations. I started at about 360K NT, they countered with 20K. We were somewhere between 120 and 175 when they noticed my d/l was from BC. Negotiations, as I expected, halted. Then they said I should go and get a d/l from the MoT. I did. Negotiations are back on. It has been 4 months now and I still don’t have full extension of my elbow. I am quite worried that this may be a permanent condition. If so, my original demand of 360K does not seem to be enough. Negotiations will pick up again later this week. I’ll let you know how it goes. Kinda bad news for the OP, but I call 'em as I see 'em. I love Taiwan.

I disagree with Omni. I see this “victim” as one of the many extortionists walking around this island who are thrilled to have such an opportunity to profit from their own, or someone else’s, misfortune.

The victim deserves compensation for his medical bills, scooter repairs, time off work, and perhaps a minor stipend for pain and suffering. Sounds like about NT$50k-100k. That’s it. PM tigerman for a legal referral. His firm is great, and he’ll probably have alternate recommendations for you.

Actually, Tomas, you seem to be agreeing with me rather than otherwise, as I proferred the opinion that

i.e. no more than NT$100,000.

However, I’d be loath to condemn the victim as an “extortionist” without having met him or having had a much fuller account of the circumstances of the accident, the fellow’s background, the nature of his injury/injuries, and other relevant matters. Likewise, I would not dream of accusing our own Stewart Pendous of attempted extortion for demanding NT$360,000 as compensation for the broken arm he suffered in his unfortunate accident.

But Omni, I would assume you make more than the average Taiwanese monthly salary where losing six weeks of work is roughly, what, NT$40,000?
I think trauma, pain, and suffering are American concepts that most Taiwanese would call the daily facts of life not something just happens when you are lucky enough to be run over by a foreigner driving an expense car. This some would call the ‘lottery.’ :laughing:

If you want to get compensation for lost work time and future lost opportunities, you need to provide detailed and verifiable evidence of the exact amounts. This is not easy.

was the man literally “run over”? how fast must a low-slung sportscar be going to ride over a scooter and person?

Update. A round table meeting between all parties was arranged at the police station last night, with a senior officer acting as a moderator.

When prompted on compensation, the injured motorcyclist wanted 250K and his pillion 50K. The moderator was pissed, decided to close the discussion right away and told them they can go ahead and sue me.

[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]1. Omni is correct in theory, but I feel, from experience and understanding, that the 200K figure is too high, given the light injuries.
2. If it was a “freak” accident, why did you say that the police said it was your fault?
3. Were you cited by the police? If so, for what? If not, then the other guy has no legal basis for a suit.
4. Unless the guy had other injury insurance ( :laughing: ) the law requires motorcyclists to have only coverage for the other party in an accident (up to, perhaps not coincidentally, 200K). You can buy insurance for the other guy and yourself, but all of the Taiwanese I have talked to have only the minimum (even though it is only NT$400 more a year). My point being that the motorcyclist here probably is not covered.
5. Stick to the NT$30,000 opening offer. If they want to try to make you their personal insurance company, let them do it via a judge. If they take it that far (doubtful), then you will know that you are paying him fair compensation as determined by the law, not some rabbit out of a hat figure dreamed up by the motorcyclist.

Thank you…you now owe me NT$10,000 for legal advice. :wink:[/quote]

Tks. That’s exactly what the police officer told me last night, they felt his 300K claim outrageous.

A local friend told me to forget about making up, as soon as they decide to sue me, I am encourage to lodge a police report against them for faking accident and extortion.

I think this is the first time you’ve mentioned a second rider (“pillion”). Was there one at the time of the accident? If not, the guy is clearly trying to commit fraud. If so, why did you fail to mention a second injured party?

Something doesn’t smell right.

Damn straight!
Stick to your 30K. I bet a zillion to one that they don’t even attempt to sue. If they don’t come begging for the 30K when they realize they can’t shake down the big nose, I’d be amazed.
If they do, get something in writing – get it ready in advance – that says that the matter is settled.

By the way, my gut reaction is that the brace put on by the doctor was cosmetic and it would not surprise me in the least if the guy asked the doc to do something like that to support his extortion claims.

I think this is the first time you’ve mentioned a second rider (“pillion”). Was there one at the time of the accident? If not, the guy is clearly trying to commit fraud. If so, why did you fail to mention a second injured party?

Something doesn’t smell right.[/quote]

There was a pillion and she got a bruised the size of a 10$ coin on her knee. Doctor gave her 2 weeks of medical leave and 6 weeks to the other fella.

They want me to pay for all present and future hospital expense, 6 + 2 weeks of unemployment, bike repair bills amounting 16K and pain compensation.

I paid for the hospital bills so far, but they took the receipts for their own motor insurance claims and now they want more??? The pillion claimed unemployment compensation, yet she continues to work for the past few days… WTF?

According to the moderator, the pillion has no right to sue me. She can only sue the rider for negligence but not against me. Is this true?

That sounds like nonsense to me. It certainly wouldn’t be the case in the UK, where you’d be liable for injuries suffered by any and every party as a result of your negligent driving. If the bike or one of its riders had been thrown against and injured a bystander, you’d be liable for that as well.

Don’t be too ready to assume that all or most Taiwanese are earning such low incomes. A very high proportion of the locals I know earn a great deal more than I do, six-figure monthly incomes being quite commonplace. That’s not only so for professionals and people running their own businesses, but also for a lot of people doing what appear to be pretty “ordinary” jobs as office employees, not to mention the street vendors and suchlike who can and frequently do rake in quite extraordinary amounts of money.

Therefore, it’s important to have concrete information about the accident victims’ jobs and incomes before coming to any conclusion about the amount of damages they’d be entitled to for loss of earnings. If they can produce clear evidence of a high income (perhaps backed up by tax receipts, ha ha), they’ll be justified in claiming a correspondingly high amount of compensation for losing it – but the onus will be on them to prove how much income they’ve lost as a result of the accident.

Omni, this maybe be true…( based my assumption on government reports and recent news reports) As an American, I generally find it rude to ask others how much they are earning. Hell I don’t even know how much my siblings earn. Or it could be that I might just not know the right people - I know my roommate works his butt off as a clerk in a cell phone store for about NT$40,000 a month, but if the guy was a street vendor I would almost be willing to bet he’s not going to produce tax records to prove he is making a huge amount of money… :wink:
As for the moderator’s comment concerning the passenger, why would you assume it to be nonsense? Sounds perfectly logical for Taiwan. :laughing:
Why would the police be on the side of the driver and not the passenger, unless this was the case?

You can get a “settlement form” (合解書) at local stationary stores, for when you and the injured party come to some agreement on compensation. It is filled in and chopped/signed by both parties.